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bige
07-22-2009, 09:28 PM
I removed the distributor cap on my Dave T Mallory distributor for no good reason. In the course of removing it or fighting to get it clipped on with a couple of arthritic fingers I busted the electrode to the rotor. Normally, I would say a couple of cuss words and go in the garage, grab the one I removed last time I 'tuned up' and be on my way until I got a replacement.

With no extra distributor cap on the shelf and none readily available locally I realized that ordering up a couple of extras made sense. I busted it Saturday afternoon and the Summit order came today so it was 4 days I had to wait to see if my trans shifted properly after the valve body switch.

So, if you're running a specialty distributor get the extra cap and rotor just in case because the local guys don't always stock the Mallory stuff. I bought an extra pick up module before I even installed it but didn't think about the cap and rotor at the time.

ErnieR





http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/track.jpg
On its way to a 15.097 Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Spring 2006.

41 Frank
07-22-2009, 09:34 PM
Good info Ernie,thanks. I also talked to Thibeault at Cedar Rapids last week and he said the Mallory comes with an R-1 advance curve, so I'l be changing that in my R-2 as I have the kit now.

jlmccuan
07-23-2009, 12:14 AM
They definately need the recurve. Frank, where did you get yours?

Jim
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/AvantiSignature.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/DSCF4389.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/Logo/RabidSnailSignature.jpg
____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________Rabid Snail Racing

41 Frank
07-23-2009, 09:28 AM
I got it from Summit Jim,as a matter of fact I got the part number from Ernie (bige) Number is Mallory 29014. Kit advance curve change yt.


quote:Originally posted by jlmccuan

They definately need the recurve. Frank, where did you get yours?

Jim
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/AvantiSignature.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/DSCF4389.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/Logo/RabidSnailSignature.jpg
____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________Rabid Snail Racing

jlmccuan
07-23-2009, 02:48 PM
OK, that's the same one I got, lol. Just wanted to make sure. Thanks.

Jim
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/AvantiSignature.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/DSCF4389.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/Logo/RabidSnailSignature.jpg
____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________Rabid Snail Racing

Colgate Studebaker
07-23-2009, 04:01 PM
Thanks for the info ALL of you guys. I just installed one from Dave T. in my brothers R2 Avanti, and am having some issues with it's running performance. By your comments, I should get the re-curve kit and re-curve it to what specs? The car runs great at mid to upper RPM, but runs like a dog at lower and idle. Sort of like the carb is loading up - but I know it isn't the carb. Dave T. said I need to bump up the timing to 8 degrees from the 4 degrees it is at, per R1 specs, and play with the vacuum advance. I'm looking for any and all info and positive experiences you all have had with the Mallory unit. Thanks in advance B.V.

Mike Van Veghten
07-23-2009, 04:18 PM
For overall best performance...forgetting what's "original....".
Normally...put the heaviest weights you have and the lightest springs you have.

That's why your engine is sluggish. You have heavy springs and or light weights in there now (the R1 curve!) and the timing is coming in late.
If you set it to any Studebaker book....you're leaving power, drivability and milage on the table, rather than letting it work for you.

Mike

bige
07-23-2009, 04:37 PM
I run a lot more initial advance than is recommended by the 'book', 12-14 initial but I have re-curved the distributor to limit the total advance as the R2 does not like much more than 28 total ( without vacuum advance ). Too much total will cause detonation and poor high RPM performance.

Get the kit so you can control the top end curve and advance the static to a point that you have good response and no labored 'crank' when trying to start a hot engine.

ErnieR

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/track.jpg
On its way to a 15.097 Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Spring 2006.

wcarroll@outrageous.net
07-23-2009, 04:43 PM
I sent Mallory my original distributor and all curve data from the shop manual back in the 90's and had them custom build me a Unilite for my '63 Hawk.

It was identical to the ones Dave T is selling now, and I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled the info from my build as a reference for building the new ones.

I ran that distributor for 10 years and never touched a thing on it.

Definitely money well spent ;)

http://community.webshots.com/user/s2dbaker?vhost=community

Colgate Studebaker
07-24-2009, 04:31 PM
Thanks guys for your input. The original distributor with the pertronix unit was set at R2 specs,(24 degrees @1600 RPM). the car ran very well except on hard acceleration, where it wanted to break up at around 3000 and up. We felt the Mallory was the way to go and the instructions were to set it at R1 specs,(4 degrees @ 650 RPM). After talking to Dave T. I will bump the timing up, I just don't know if I should monkey around with the curve. It's got 30 degrees total advance right now, and I don't really want to push it up any farther, hence my thoughts about the curve. Thanks again all, the info and experience out there is terrific. B.V.

bige
07-24-2009, 05:05 PM
Are you saying you have 30 total with timing set at 4? If that's the case advancing it to 8 will give you 34 total which may be too much for the R2.

Is your car sputtering and popping above 3,000 or just flattening out?

ErnieR

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/track.jpg
On its way to a 15.097 Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Spring 2006.

jlmccuan
07-24-2009, 06:29 PM
Ooooh, I see the chance for more tuning input. Let's consider both problems as seperate cases. Case 1 sputtering and case 2 flattening out. Rules of thumb, personal experiences, general knowledge; please list them all, folks. This has the makings of a sticky, or at least an often used thread.

Jim
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/AvantiSignature.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/DSCF4389.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/Logo/RabidSnailSignature.jpg
____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________Rabid Snail Racing

Colgate Studebaker
07-24-2009, 07:50 PM
OK folks, my intent wasn't to start a big debate or such. I am looking for experiences similar to mine and solutions to any like situations. The original distributor had an issue as RPM's climbed causing the engine to pop/sputter. Knowing the poor performance of many Stude distributors from '62 - '64, we opted for the Mallory. Now, with the engine timed to R1 specs, it is very "doggy" at lower RPM and poor idle. As the engine gains RPM the distributor comes "alive" and runs very strong in the mid to upper RPM. I have checked the total(mechanical & vacuum) advance with my 30+ year old Snap-on timing light, and I come up with 30 degrees total advance @ 2000 RPM approx. I am not positive as to the exact RPM as I don't have a good accurate tach. Soooo, now maybe my issue is a little more understandable. As always, I reaaly do enjoy all the info you all input. Thanks again- B.V.

jlmccuan
07-24-2009, 08:25 PM
I see it more of a learning opportunity and a good place to use as reference as well as send future folks with the same situation in the future. One can only assume as these drivelines "mature" more folks will be faced with the same scenarios and choices.

Jim
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/AvantiSignature.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/DSCF4389.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/Logo/RabidSnailSignature.jpg
____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________Rabid Snail Racing

bige
07-24-2009, 08:41 PM
No debate here as everyone seems to be on the same page. Here's what I think...you need more static advance and you need to re-curve for the right total advance. If you are only checking advance to 2,000 rpm you may not be seeing the actual total as that dist. may be continuing to advance up to about 3500 rpm.

The Mallory is curved from the factory for Chevy engines and most non supercharged engines have similar needs as Chevies so it works for a broad spectrum. However, the average high performance Chevy calls for around 36 total advance at 3,000 rpm. Figure an initial setting of 12 degrees and 24 in the distributor and you have the average Chevy and Mallory distributor curve.

So, your 30 is about right, give or take, with your initial at 4 degrees. If you bring your initial ( static ) timing up to where you have nice crisp low end you will have way too much at 3,000 RPM. The Chevy setting is also a slower curve than the R 2 and that's why Mike V suggested the lighter springs. You want the advance coming all in early. Stude says all in at 1600. I wasn't able to get the Mallory to come all in at that low an RPM but I was able to get all the centrifugal timing, 14 degrees in my case, to come in at 2,000 rpm. So with the re-curve kit you can bring you static timing up to 10 degrees for nice low end and keep the total advance within the proper limits for a supercharged car.

Peter Sant's very low 14 second Avanti runs best with 28 degrees total so that 14 setiing on the Mallory gives you a little wiggle room.

Easy enough to see if your car will run better with more static, just advance it. If the low end feels good and the car doesn't get a labored crank when trying to start it hot your on the right track.

It's hard to feel the effects of too much advance at high rpm sometimes. I know on my car I've never heard an audible ping even when the timing was way too far advanced. What I did notice in my experiments was that too much total timing caused the car to strain in the mid to upper rpm ranges. Not a big flat spot just not a smooth, linear build up of power.

I tried a Delco window distributor with a stock 289 curve and it just didn't work. Too much total with the proper initial. I re-curved that as best I could to match the factory recommended curve and experimented with it at the dragstrip. With that distributor I ran less initial but the same 28 total for the best performance.

For whatever reason I have to run a little more initial with the Mallory but fortunately it can be set up with a good curve for the R2. The procedure is fairly simple. The kit consits of gages that you insert as a stop. So you adjust the plate against a 14 degree gage, tighten a screw and the advance limit is set. I used the lightest springs that would also ensure that the ditributor would go back to no advance at idle. You need to do a little dis-assembly on the distributor but nothing major.

It's worth the effort.

ErnieR

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/track.jpg
On its way to a 15.097 Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Spring 2006.

41 Frank
07-24-2009, 09:14 PM
Bill I've had the Mallory in my car since right after Lancaster where I bought it from Thibeault and have been satisfied with it so far. My 3600# car broke into the 13's last week with an R-2 with only R-3 manifolds, some head work, including R-3 valves and 7# of boost. This is with the R-1 advance curve,soon to be changed. My car pulls good from low rpm's as the 2.10 60 foot times show. But that is all racing stuff which does not apply here. On the street I run the 24 degrees centrifical the distributor came with along with 6 degrees lead for a total of 30. For the track I have been running 10 degrees lead on 1/4 mile and 12 degrees on 1/8th mile for totals of 34 and 36 respectively. Of course I use 114 octane race fuel with that much timing at the track. Just my 2 cents. My question to you is ,was the car doggy at low speeds before the distributor change?



quote:Originally posted by bill van alstyne

Thanks for the info ALL of you guys. I just installed one from Dave T. in my brothers R2 Avanti, and am having some issues with it's running performance. By your comments, I should get the re-curve kit and re-curve it to what specs? The car runs great at mid to upper RPM, but runs like a dog at lower and idle. Sort of like the carb is loading up - but I know it isn't the carb. Dave T. said I need to bump up the timing to 8 degrees from the 4 degrees it is at, per R1 specs, and play with the vacuum advance. I'm looking for any and all info and positive experiences you all have had with the Mallory unit. Thanks in advance B.V.

edpjr
07-24-2009, 09:34 PM
I'm not real smart regarding car timing and such, despite selling auto parts for over 8 years, before switching to engineering. I have a '63 Avanti R2 that had the original dual point dist replaced with a single point prestolite somewhere along the line. The car won't idle worth a darn. I bought a Thibeault Mallory dist and ordered a spring kit from Sunset too. My brother, who is a trained mechanic, is going to do the change-out for me. He asked me to get the proper specs. In simplest terms; what specs should I tell him to set the timing and advance too? Thanks! :D

bige
07-24-2009, 09:48 PM
But your car is so aerodynamic :D


quote:Originally posted by 41 Frank

Bill I've had the Mallory in my car since right after Lancaster where I bought it from Thibeault and have been satisfied with it so far. My 3600# car broke into the 13's last week with an R-2 with only R-3 manifolds, some head work, including R-3 valves and 7# of boost. This is with the R-1 advance curve,soon to be changed. My car pulls good from low rpm's as the 2.10 60 foot times show. But that is all racing stuff which does not apply here. On the street I run the 24 degrees centrifical the distributor came with along with 6 degrees lead for a total of 30. For the track I have been running 10 degrees lead on 1/4 mile and 12 degrees on 1/8th mile for totals of 34 and 36 respectively. Of course I use 114 octane race fuel with that much timing at the track. Just my 2 cents. My question to you is ,was the car doggy at low speeds before the distributor change?



quote:Originally posted by bill van alstyne

Thanks for the info ALL of you guys. I just installed one from Dave T. in my brothers R2 Avanti, and am having some issues with it's running performance. By your comments, I should get the re-curve kit and re-curve it to what specs? The car runs great at mid to upper RPM, but runs like a dog at lower and idle. Sort of like the carb is loading up - but I know it isn't the carb. Dave T. said I need to bump up the timing to 8 degrees from the 4 degrees it is at, per R1 specs, and play with the vacuum advance. I'm looking for any and all info and positive experiences you all have had with the Mallory unit. Thanks in advance B.V.



http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/track.jpg
On its way to a 15.097 Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Spring 2006.

bige
07-24-2009, 09:54 PM
My personal setting is to limit the centrifugal advance to 14 degrees, which if I remember correctly is the lowest setting there is a gage for in the kit. I also used the lightest springs in the kit but also making sure that the advance mechanism returns fully to its starting position.

From there you can set the initial timing at a nice spot for good low end acceleration without the fear of too much total advance.

ErnieR


quote:Originally posted by edpjr

I'm not real smart regarding car timing and such, despite selling auto parts for over 8 years, before switching to engineering. I have a '63 Avanti R2 that had the original dual point dist replaced with a single point prestolite somewhere along the line. The car won't idle worth a darn. I bought a Thibeault Mallory dist and ordered a spring kit from Sunset too. My brother, who is a trained mechanic, is going to do the change-out for me. He asked me to get the proper specs. In simplest terms; what specs should I tell him to set the timing and advance too? Thanks! :D

41 Frank
07-24-2009, 10:27 PM
Yes Ernie,as aerodynamic as a brick.:D



quote:Originally posted by bige

But your car is so aerodynamic :D


quote:Originally posted by 41 Frank

Bill I've had the Mallory in my car since right after Lancaster where I bought it from Thibeault and have been satisfied with it so far. My 3600# car broke into the 13's last week with an R-2 with only R-3 manifolds, some head work, including R-3 valves and 7# of boost. This is with the R-1 advance curve,soon to be changed. My car pulls good from low rpm's as the 2.10 60 foot times show. But that is all racing stuff which does not apply here. On the street I run the 24 degrees centrifical the distributor came with along with 6 degrees lead for a total of 30. For the track I have been running 10 degrees lead on 1/4 mile and 12 degrees on 1/8th mile for totals of 34 and 36 respectively. Of course I use 114 octane race fuel with that much timing at the track. Just my 2 cents. My question to you is ,was the car doggy at low speeds before the distributor change?



quote:Originally posted by bill van alstyne

Thanks for the info ALL of you guys. I just installed one from Dave T. in my brothers R2 Avanti, and am having some issues with it's running performance. By your comments, I should get the re-curve kit and re-curve it to what specs? The car runs great at mid to upper RPM, but runs like a dog at lower and idle. Sort of like the carb is loading up - but I know it isn't the carb. Dave T. said I need to bump up the timing to 8 degrees from the 4 degrees it is at, per R1 specs, and play with the vacuum advance. I'm looking for any and all info and positive experiences you all have had with the Mallory unit. Thanks in advance B.V.



http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/track.jpg
On its way to a 15.097 Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Spring 2006.

Colgate Studebaker
07-25-2009, 09:11 AM
Thanks again guys. My questions have been addressed and I'm confident on making the right moves now. I felt I needed more initial timing, but was afraid to go too far as to increase total above 30 degrees, so now to re-curve it. By the way, it ran fine with the original distributor at low/ idle rpm set at 24 degrees @1600. I have to get the re-curve kit (Summit), but will advise how it turns out. The car definitely will not be run on the track, just a nice street driver, so getting every ounce of power out of it isn't an absolute need. Thanks again to all. B.V.

edpjr
07-25-2009, 12:13 PM
Ok. If I understand correctly; for an R2 with T-bow Mallory dist use the heaviest weights and lightest springs from the Summit kit. Two things; what is optimum timing and should I get a high perf coil too? Thanks!

41 Frank
07-25-2009, 12:50 PM
Basically I will suggest to you to read the instructions that are included with the kit.The distributor comes with a 2 stage advance from the factory which is preferred for street use in V-8's It will give an adequate amount of advance below 1500 rpm to give good trottle response, then will continue advancing until about 3500 rpm when it reaches its 24 degree centrifucal. When going to springs that create a single stage curve that comes in early you take a chance on detonation on a street driven car,detonation equals burned pistons,don't ask me how I know.Single stage curves should be used on race engines that use high octane fuel,according to the instructions. My suggestion is to read the Avanti workshop manual,I know it gives the advance curves and timing procedure for R-1 and R-2 engines. High performance coils are good. Get the kit and than if you have more questions we can deal with it. The kit only contains springs and the tools to change centrifucal advance limit, no weights.



quote:Originally posted by edpjr

Ok. If I understand correctly; for an R2 with T-bow Mallory dist use the heaviest weights and lightest springs from the Summit kit. Two things; what is optimum timing and should I get a high perf coil too? Thanks!