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hotrodstude
06-01-2009, 02:11 PM
wasn't the first avanti a 1962 model? or 1962 1/2? and when did they start building r-series engines? 1962 or 1963? because i remember seeing a avanti on display at seven courners shopping in april or may of 1962. because we moved back to missouri june 1962. i remember it was a dark red with a supercharged engine. i was only 11 years old. american service center was putting on a big promo. i think the car was sold that evening.

wolfie
06-01-2009, 02:59 PM
The experts will weigh in soon but I am sure all the Avantis were 63 and 64's. I remember through the fog of my memory reading they were introduced at an auto show in late fall 62 but as 63's and I think April or May would be way earlier than written previously.Steve

Skip Lackie
06-01-2009, 03:20 PM
The Avanti was introduced in June 1962 as a 63 model. The concept of 19xx 1/2 models didn't start till much later, when the earliest Mustangs were informally redefined by Mustang fans as 1964 1/2 models to give them greater rarity, even though Ford Motor Company always considered them to be 1965 models.

Skip Lackie
Washington DC

31Streetrod
06-01-2009, 03:49 PM
The Avanti that was going from dealer to dealer here in the mid alantic zone hit Martinsburg, WV fall of 62. The Stude dealer's son sort of borrowed it one night for a test drive and I was one of the guys in the car that night. I stil to this day thank GOD that it was able to go on to another dealer for promo purposes.

Lost in the 50's

barnlark
06-01-2009, 04:09 PM
http://tinyurl.com/kj4lcx

http://tinyurl.com/mrgqzv

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN2035-1.jpg

wolfie
06-02-2009, 10:53 AM
Thanks Barnlark,I stand corrected. Steve

studegary
06-02-2009, 03:32 PM
quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie

The Avanti was introduced in June 1962 as a 63 model. The concept of 19xx 1/2 models didn't start till much later, when the earliest Mustangs were informally redefined by Mustang fans as 1964 1/2 models to give them greater rarity, even though Ford Motor Company always considered them to be 1965 models.

Skip Lackie



Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
I am so tired of people referring to 1964.5 Mustangs. There is no such thing. When they came out in April 1964, they were 1965 models. Those that weren't buying new cars at that time have tried to re-invent things. I know that they are trying to separate the early production Mustangs, with their differences, from the later 1965 models, but that doesn't make them anything but 1965 model cars.

There are many books and articles that refer to Avantis as 1962 models, but that is incorrect. There are no 1962 Avantis (or 1986 Avantis). The Studebaker Avanti was first production built in June of 1962 as a 1963 model year car.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

8E45E
06-02-2009, 06:41 PM
quote:Originally posted by studegary

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
I am so tired of people referring to 1964.5 Mustangs. There is no such thing. When they came out in April 1964, they were 1965 models. Those that weren't buying new cars at that time have tried to re-invent things.


It is hard to figure some out. Ford did the exact same 'early intro' idea exactly six years to the day, and you NEVER hear of anyone ever owning a '1969-1/2' Maverick![:0]

Craig

hotrodstude
06-02-2009, 07:02 PM
well i'm an ford freak have been most of my life acording to ford 1964 1/2 mustang was the only one with the 260 v-8 and a gen. not an alt. but when production numbers are totaled the "1964 1/2" is counted as 1965. but chevy had the 1970 1/2 camero i don't remember a 1970 camero unless they made 1969 longer than normal?

fstst56
06-02-2009, 08:15 PM
Don't forget the 1963 1/2 full sized Ford with the fastback roof!

hotrodstude
06-02-2009, 08:35 PM
4 lug wheels were standard on 6 cylinders until 1967 i think. yes the 1965-1966 were based on the falcon.all front end parts are the same.engines and trans,if you have a 6 cylinder with factory 4-speed you have agerman trans which was opt. in the falcon. rears are the same.the floorpan was changed in 1967 to use the bigblocks.390-427.

Skip Lackie
06-03-2009, 07:13 AM
quote:Originally posted by 8E45E

It is hard to figure some out. Ford did the exact same 'early intro' idea exactly six years to the day, and you NEVER hear of anyone ever owning a '1969-1/2' Maverick![:0]

Craig

Oh yeah -- the 69 1/2 Maverick!!! Boy, that's always been high on MY most-lusted-after cars!


Skip Lackie
Washington DC

8E45E
06-03-2009, 07:38 AM
quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie

Oh yeah -- the 69 1/2 Maverick!!! Boy, that's always been high on MY most-lusted-after cars!



...which explains why any running changes during its 17 month production cycle has never been documented in depth like the '65 Mustang's has been, which seems to give some the 'right' to differentiate early ones as a "64-1/2" even though all know it is not correct!

Craig

Skip Lackie
06-03-2009, 08:00 AM
quote:Originally posted by hotrodstude

well i'm an ford freak have been most of my life acording to ford 1964 1/2 mustang was the only one with the 260 v-8 and a gen. not an alt. but when production numbers are totaled the "1964 1/2" is counted as 1965. but chevy had the 1970 1/2 camero i don't remember a 1970 camero unless they made 1969 longer than normal?

Yes, that's what happened. The 1970 Camaro was the second-generation design, and it wasn't ready for production during the usual model changeover in summer 1969. As a result, GM continued to produce 1969-design Camaros (including the convertible) for several more months. These cars were sold alongside the "real" 1970 Chevelles, Caprices, and Corvettes, and as a result, GM called them 1970 models, and they were registered as such.

The real 1970 Camaros were introduced in February 1970. GM issued a service letter with new model identification numbers, new parts books, and new shop manuals. Chevy launched a major advertising campaign to announce the new models, and the automotive press had exhaustively described GM's production problems, so there certainly was no secret at the time about what they had done.

The late 1970 Camaro was a completely new design, and didn't share a whole lot with the late 69 models. Dealers needed a way to tell them apart when ordering parts, so they started calling the real 1970 models as 1970 1/2 models. This terminology continues to this day. The Camaro terminology matter is thus very different from the Mustang situation.

The 62-63-64 Avanti confusion may have been exacerbated by the fact that many books and articles say it was introduced in 1962, which is literally true. And Studebaker did not make any effort to highlight the model year of the Avanti. An example is the fact that we're still discussing exactly when the 64 model year started, and whether we can use square headlights as a guide.

Skip Lackie
Washington DC

Edited to fix typo

8E45E
06-03-2009, 08:21 AM
quote:Originally posted by Skip Lackie
An example is the fact that we're still discussing exactly when the 64 model year started, and whether we can use square headlights as a guide.



I go by the paint code on the Production Order to determine that. One thing that did change from 1963 to 1964 was the prefix.

Craig

Effie
02-22-2015, 09:57 AM
The Avanti was introduced in June 1962 as a 63 model. The concept of 19xx 1/2 models didn't start till much later, when the earliest Mustangs were informally redefined by Mustang fans as 1964 1/2 models to give them greater rarity, even though Ford Motor Company always considered them to be 1965 models.

Skip Lackie
Washington DC

The June 1962 introduction ad41442

StudeMichael
02-22-2015, 10:29 AM
All Avanti had an available R1 or R2 engine from the start. The R3 & R4 option came later on.

qsanford
02-22-2015, 10:34 AM
I think the last Ford Falcons had a divided model also. I have seen 1970 Ford Falcon "Torinos" and regular style 1970 Falcons.

nels
02-22-2015, 10:56 AM
Yes, that's what happened. The 1970 Camaro was the second-generation design, and it wasn't ready for production during the usual model changeover in summer 1969. As a result, GM continued to produce 1969-design Camaros (including the convertible) for several more months. These cars were sold alongside the "real" 1970 Chevelles, Caprices, and Corvettes, and as a result, GM called them 1970 models, and they were registered as such.

The real 1970 Camaros were introduced in February 1970. GM issued a service letter with new model identification numbers, new parts books, and new shop manuals. Chevy launched a major advertising campaign to announce the new models, and the automotive press had exhaustively described GM's production problems, so there certainly was no secret at the time about what they had done.

The late 1970 Camaro was a completely new design, and didn't share a whole lot with the late 69 models. Dealers needed a way to tell them apart when ordering parts, so they started calling the real 1970 models as 1970 1/2 models. This terminology continues to this day. The Camaro terminology matter is thus very different from the Mustang situation.

The 62-63-64 Avanti confusion may have been exacerbated by the fact that many books and articles say it was introduced in 1962, which is literally true. And Studebaker did not make any effort to highlight the model year of the Avanti. An example is the fact that we're still discussing exactly when the 64 model year started, and whether we can use square headlights as a guide.

Skip Lackie
Washington DC

Edited to fix typo

I think the biggest reason the 70 models were delayed so long was that GM was on strike which was one of the longest in their history. I remember working at a body shop at a Buick dealer and we could get nothing new once existing supplies ran out. We straightened everything. Probably why Firebirds etc were referred to as 70 1/2 models.