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View Full Version : Toughest Forum Quiz Ever... EDIT: Tag Mysteries



mbstude
05-15-2009, 08:33 PM
Alright guys and gals...

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/1959S2D/tag002.jpg

The Tag shown in the top of the picture is pretty obvious. It's the cowl tag from a US6 Army Truck. (And is the highest body number I've ever seen. Anyone seen/have one higher? Might it be the last US6? :D)

The Tag underneath it, is a mystery.

Both of these Tags have been screwed to rusting pieces of metal, up in Indiana, for the past 60 years. Anyone who has been following the Forum lately can probably figure out where in Indiana these tags were. ;)

So, here's the quiz...

The tag on the bottom is unlike any other Studebaker tag I have EVER seen. I know for a fact that it is Studebaker related. It was removed from the remains of what was most likely the cowl of a late '40's Stude car.

Does anyone out there know what this tag might have represented? What it stood for? What it means? Why it was screwed to that cowl? Note the stamped border around the numbers.

Seriously.. This thing has me stumped.

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA

Gunslinger
05-15-2009, 08:41 PM
In many states, if there is no identifiable VIN showing on a used car, will assign their own VIN and attach the plate. This could be an example of that. I know of one 2003 Avanti owner ran into that...he bought it in Arizona and his home state of California wouldn't recognize an Avanti with a Firebird VIN, and intended to assign it a state supplied VIN. If he ever got it straightened out I don't know. He did have some major headaches over it. A somewhat different scenario but strange things do happen.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

Steve T
05-15-2009, 08:58 PM
I haven't the faintest, but will take a swipe at it anyway...could the mystery tag be from one of the mangled Model N hulks in a certain woodlot some forumites were driving round and round the edges of a couple weekends ago??:D

Or off a Soviet lend-lease truck, maybe? Interesting piece.

S.

mbstude
05-15-2009, 09:07 PM
Sorry Steve.. The tag didn't come off a Model N. But it did come off a piece of metal laying pretty close by. Really.

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/1959S2D/tiny.jpg

Steve T
05-15-2009, 09:19 PM
Hm. Well...Stude had various Brand-Xs for comparative purposes, which'd surely have been tossed aside once done with. Could the oddball tag be Stude-related, as in off a car from the plant...but a car that was not itself a Stude?? That would account for the apparent irrelevance of the number sequence, and also the stylistic variance of the tag from normal Stude practice...

This is fun. C'mon, everybody, let's make with the wild guesses!

S.

toyman
05-15-2009, 09:46 PM
I got it. It is from the 5,752nd 454 ci engine built in Indiana.

toyman

mbstude
05-16-2009, 09:43 AM
Where's Dick Quinn and Bob Palma when ya need 'em? :D

Studebaker Wheel
05-16-2009, 12:25 PM
Matthew;

I only visit the forum on an occasional basis and then only read maybe one in twenty of the posts so obviously miss a lot. Someone emailed me today re this particular post and the mysterious plate. I do not recall having seen a number plate of this type so can only speculate to its origin. I am guessing that it might be something placed there by the Budd Company (Philadelphia and Detroit) that made the major body panels for Studebaker. This was a long association going back to 1916. I know for certain that the cowls were made by Budd. They were the most costly and complex panels to produce and required several stamped pieces. I am not claiming that the tag is from Budd but only that it represents a reasonable guess.

Richard Quinn
editor: Antique Studebaker Review

studelark
05-16-2009, 01:13 PM
Matthew; Here's my two cents worth! It is obvious the smaller tag is of Studebaker production as noted by the 'I' as a '1'. This was common practice by Studebaker for a long time. Then the miltary tag contradicts that practice by using a '1' for a '1'. Go figure.

I have no idea what the smaller tag means. I know my memory isn't what it used to be, but I have seen a 4 or 5 digit tag of this size on a Scotsman I owned. It was attached under the hood, left side, close to the left hood hinge. It was attached by a thin wire which didn't seem to have the strength needed for longevity. I'll look around to see if I can find it. Thanks for posting this mystery.:D

The body number is not the highest for a US6. There were 190,000+ of these trucks manufactured by Studebaker. This truck was about 3/4ths of the way through production.[:p]


Frank Drumheller
Louisa, VA
60S-W6
1948 M16-52 Boyer fire truck

Roscomacaw
05-16-2009, 03:38 PM
I have a big box of car ID plates and tags off firewalls for all sorts of makes of cars from the 30s on thru the 70s. This smaller tag is similar to some Mopar tags from the 40s and 50s.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1963 Cruiser
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President two door

mbstude
05-16-2009, 07:57 PM
Thanks for the comments and opinions everyone.

Biggsie, could you post a pic of one of those Mopar tags, for comparison?

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/1959S2D/tiny.jpg

barnlark
05-16-2009, 09:12 PM
I asked my local Mopar expert about the smaller tag, Matthew. He said it looks like an early one for sure, that may have been found on Dodges, Chryslers, etc., during that era. He said the difference would be that theirs usually would have had their logo on them.
Studebaker Wheel's very educated guess would make perfect sense since Budd had a long-standing relationship starting way back with the Dodge brothers & others: Similar tag stamping used on those Studebaker cowls, since it was probably from the same manufacturer.
Read down to the blurb about the Studebaker plastic bodied car in 1954, though. [?]

http://tinyurl.com/oaonqt



http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN1253_2.jpg

mbstude
05-16-2009, 09:21 PM
Sent you an email Dave. Thanks. :)

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/1959S2D/tiny.jpg

studelark
05-17-2009, 08:43 PM
[quote]Originally posted by studelark

Matthew; Here's my two cents worth! It is obvious the smaller tag is of Studebaker production as noted by the 'I' as a '1'. This was common practice by Studebaker for a long time. Then the miltary tag contradicts that practice by using a '1' for a '1'. Go figure.

I have no idea what the smaller tag means. I know my memory isn't what it used to be, but I have seen a 4 or 5 digit tag of this size on a Scotsman I owned. It was attached under the hood, left side, close to the left hood hinge. It was attached by a thin wire which didn't seem to have the strength needed for longevity. I'll look around to see if I can find it.
Frank Drumheller

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Matthew; I finally found the small tag that I took from my 4E3 Scotsman some years ago. Its larger than I remembered and it really doesn't resemble the smaller tag you pictured. However, I do not know what it means. I've not seen it on other trucks. Perhaps it was an assembly line code which was removed before shipping the vehicle and on this truck someone forgot. I would be interested in hearing comments from others.

Yes, my truck was originally painted Omaha Orange as it was a Virginia Dept. of Highways truck in its first life.

I still haven't taken the time to figure out how to post photos, so I'm sending you a photo of the tag via e-mail and you may post it as a comparison with the photos you've posted. Thanks. :D

Frank Drumheller
Louisa, VA
60S-W6
1948 M16-52 Boyer fire truck

mbstude
05-17-2009, 09:13 PM
Thanks for the pic, Frank.

Here it is:

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/1959S2D/JD-church004.jpg

This is where it gets interesting.

Along with the two tags I pictured in my initial post, my buddy who was in the "Graveyard" also grabbed a few other tags and sent them to me as well.

One of them is nearly identical to the one that Frank has, and removed from his '59 Scotsman.

Here's the one I have, shown with a 'regular' body tag for comparison. I was told it was removed from a '53ish C body coupe, that's in the Graveyard. The digits stamped into it are C 664.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/1959S2D/tag004.jpg

Has anyone ever seen this type of tag before? It's made of aluminum. It was obviously installed on at least two Studes at the factory. :)

Roscomacaw
05-17-2009, 11:23 PM
Those little C-number tags were hung on the hood hinges of C-cab trucks. I'd bet anything they were a "line number" for the cab assemblies themselves. I don't know WHEN they started using those tags, but I suspect it was after the 2R series was finished.

These tags were attached (from what I've seen) to the RH hood hinge with a simple piece of steel twist wire. Often, by the time I came along, the wire had rusted away and the tag was long gone. But even with those odds, I've managed to find 5 or 6 of them thru the years.[^]

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1963 Cruiser
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President two door

BobPalma
05-18-2009, 07:34 AM
quote:Originally posted by mbstude

Where's Dick Quinn and Bob Palma when ya need 'em? :D


:) I appreciate the vote of confidence, Matthew, but cannot add appreciably to what Dick posted.

Given the long-standing Budd/MoPar and Budd/Studebaker relationships, it is indeed possible this tag was affixed by Budd to denote something that remains a mystery. :DBP

8E45E
05-18-2009, 07:43 AM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Those little C-number tags were hung on the hood hinges of C-cab trucks. I'd bet anything they were a "line number" for the cab assemblies themselves. I don't know WHEN they started using those tags, but I suspect it was after the 2R series was finished.


I wonder if it was a Contract number of sorts when more than one or more trucks for fleet use was ordered.

Craig

mbstude
05-18-2009, 09:46 AM
Thanks for the info, Biggs.

However, if the little "C" tags were on C cabs, why would the one I have been on a '53 Coupe[?]

This one is also 'mangled' a bit around the screw hole, where it was screwed down to the cowl.

The mystery continues. :)

Roscomacaw
05-18-2009, 11:32 AM
Well Matthew - when it comes to stuff from that very special graveyard, I'd bet the rules we've all come to acknowledge are out the window, so to speak![B)]

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1963 Cruiser
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President two door

StudeRich
05-19-2009, 02:34 AM
I think Craig was very close, I think it is a U.S. Govm't. contract number for a Military General's car, and as all such contracts do, it starts with "45" to indicate the year: 1945.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa221/studerich/My64Daytona.jpg
StudeRich at Studebakers Northwest -Ferndale,WA

Roscomacaw
05-19-2009, 11:42 AM
Rich, Craig was talking about the little "C" tags. But his theory wouldn't work since my Transtar had one when I got it in 1989 and the Production Order shows it was ordered by a dealer in New Mexico.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1963 Cruiser
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President two door

StudeRich
05-19-2009, 12:37 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Rich, Craig was talking about the little "C" tags. But his theory wouldn't work since my Transtar had one when I got it in 1989 and the Production Order shows it was ordered by a dealer in New Mexico.


Oh, I just ignored that discussion, as I thought most everyone knew it is the Body number of the Cab. Several of my Transtars have them hanging on the right hood hinge by the very fine wire and the later Cabs like my '62, have it screwed onto the cab like the cars and "T" Cabs do.

Anyway I was talking about the 45415752 tag.

mbstude
05-19-2009, 06:26 PM
Rich, you might be onto something here... Hmm...


quote:I think Craig was very close, I think it is a U.S. Govm't. contract number for a Military General's car, and as all such contracts do, it starts with "45" to indicate the year: 1945

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/1959S2D/tiny.jpg

Roscomacaw
05-19-2009, 08:57 PM
Well, I got out the most likely box of tags I have - there's another box of these, but I can't find it.[B)]

Anyway, I picked out some long-ish tags. There's none that are exactly like Matthew's example. Frankly, I'd be hesitant to accept the notion that this was a military contract number. Yeah - it starts with 45, but that could be coincidental. Besides, where's these tags on the military trucks???
And at that, why would they use yet another tag-making machine other'n what they'd been using prior?

Here's some photos....
http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/30906179/aview/Longishtags.jpg
http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/30906179/aview/BrandXtagpile.jpg
http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/30906179/aview/BrandXtags.jpg


Here's a streamer tag from a Hamilton car. Sadly, the body designator is not to be found, but what the heck does the "EXT TM" streamer denote? Extra trim, Exterior trim?

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/30906179/aview/ExtraTrimTag.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1963 Cruiser
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President two door

Roscomacaw
05-19-2009, 08:59 PM
Where's our resident Packard expert???

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/30906179/aview/PAckardtag.jpg

MAybe that Packard wore a special body???

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/30906179/aview/Hearsetag.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1963 Cruiser
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President two door

mbstude
05-19-2009, 09:04 PM
Interesting Biggs.. Thanks for the pics.

I still think the one I have is Studebaker. I'll think that until proven wrong, I guess. :D

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk179/1959S2D/tiny.jpg

PlainBrownR2
05-19-2009, 09:18 PM
This should help with the Miller Meteor tag:
http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/m/miller_meteor/miller_meteor.htm

What you might have is a Miller Meteor Cadillac tag as this was their exclusive chassis that they assembled the hearses on, Cadillac frames. They merged in '54 and the name was used until '84 when the name was sold.

[IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/DSC00017-1-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
[IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/DSC00015-3-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
[IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
[IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

BobPalma
05-19-2009, 09:24 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Where's our resident Packard expert???

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/30906179/aview/PAckardtag.jpg



:) Biggs: Packard Model 2562 (the first four digits of the Vehicle Number) was a 1952 Packard 200 DeLuxe 4-door sedan, one of the more popular 1952 Packard models. Nine are registered in Packard Automobile Classics' newest (2009-2010) membership roster. :DBP