Just when you thought we gave up.....

[John and Tracy Smith]

We have been a little too busy lately to work on Karl (sick kids, grouchy husband, and ever chipper wife. Oh, please!). Today we decided to get back to work. I'm sure a few of you know by now that a certain somebody started the car while it was running for the first time in ten years and caused damage to the starter. We are pleased to say it has been tested and the bendix repaired ($35.00) as earlier reported. We have not reinstalled it yet. John decided to try to figure out once and for all if the oil pan was truly cracked.



As you can see below, it definitely is! So, here are our questions:

Do you recommend these cracks being repaired, or the oil pan replaced?

What do you think was the cause of the cracking? We were concerned that maybe this damage came from the control arms rubbing/sitting too close to the pan? It does appear that the front end of the car was damaged in an accident at some point.

In order to get this pan out, do we have to remove the engine or just all of the steering elements?

As always, thanks in advance for any advice and/or recommendations you might have. We appreciate the help!



John and Tracy Smith
Queen Creek Arizona

http://1955studebaker.blogspot.com/

[IMG]

[mausersmth]

You might want your local body guy to look at that front end. Don't want to tear up oil pans or tires, or worse, lose control on the road![:0]

Charles Eck
Essex, MD

'57 Commander 4 door sedan, 'Bluebird'
'66 Ford F-250
'66 Ford F-100
'53 John Deere 50

Studebakers were made to drive! (Besides, they don't get lost as easy in the Wal-Mart parking lot!)

[63t-cab]

Seems to me you should be able to repair that pan,I had one that was stuffed up real bad by a floor jack and I straightened it out easy enough.though mine did'nt need any welding you could have that mig welded.but if the car haveing been in a preivious accident had anything to do with this damage I'd be looking for more things needing repair/replace(just a thought)

Joseph R. Zeiger

[Chucks Stude]

Judging by the bottom of the pan, it does not look like the pan was hit from below. Look to see if your frame has been straightened. That is probably the cause. As far as fixing it, just take it off, and have it welded. I have lived with welded pans, on engines that came out of a junk yard, no problem. They came out of cars that had been wrecked, and were cut across the front like that. Be sure and beat it out, before welding.
It might be easier to pull the engine to get the pan out. You need to change the pan gasket, and it might be easier if the engine is out. Others may have other views, and I yield the floor to them.......

[BobPalma]

Does not look good, John and Tracy. Karl needs an appointment with a good body shop that has a frame rack.

Tell them before you go, that the car was involved in a frontal collision years ago and you are concerned that the frame may not be straight. If it is an old shop, they may have dimensions available. If not, you'll have to get them from your Studebaker Shop Manual (you do have one, right?) and take the dimensions in for their use.

There may not be anything terminal, but you need to have it checked before you spend any more time or money on the car.

At the least, it surely needs new engine mounts on all four corners. Perhaps the weight of the engine just sheered or distorted the engine mounts upon impact.

As others have said, that pan can be welded and made useable. BP

[Roscomacaw]

I pulled an 259 engine out of a '62 wagon years ago. The car had been used and abused as a painter's hack. In the course of it's life, ALL FOUR motor mounts had rotted away! This left the engine to flop around in it's bay and there was a gash far worse than what's seen here. It was at least an inch across at it's widest point and the only way it could've gotten that big was proloned driving with the bellcrank end gnawing away at the oil pan! Must've been a b*tch to steer, but it appearantly didn't hurt the engine or run it dry of oil. Although I was apprehensive about taking the engine once I had it hoisted up, the fact that I could turn it by hand was promising.
What I surmised after disassembly was that the edge of the ever-growing gash kept turning inwards and helped to keep it from losing too much oil.[B)]
I ended up using that engine after converting it to a 289 with .080 over slugs. I used it for awhile and pulled it when I sold the Lark it was in. Last I heard, it was being prepped for use in a '64 by a young fella here on the forum.
Anyway, point is, it could be just totally rotted motor mounts![:0]

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1963 Cruiser
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President two door

[jclary]

Looking at the angle of the picture, it is hard to tell if the bell crank is still touching the pan. The tie rod end on the drivers drag link is missing the rubber dust cover and that needs to be taken care of anyway. I have dropped the pan by removing one of the links and turning the other out of the way. I agree with others that the pan can be welded, but a unmolested replacement would be "purtier"(southern drawl ya' know).
[img][/img]

John Clary
Greer, SC
SDC member since 1975

[StudeRich]

If those engine mounts turn out to be totally shot John & Tracy, that could be the only cause, they also could have been torn and replaced, not as likely. [^]

[gordr]

Second the suggestion to have the frame checked. If the frame turns out to be bad, you may wish to reconsider any further work on the car, contingent on the possibility and cost of frame repair.

But most likely it is just bad motor mounts. To drop the pan:

1. remove the grease fitting from the bellcrank pivot casting. It can be found about 2 inches above the top right corner of your picture, recessed in a hole in the back face of that big front cross-member. You will need a socket.

2. Undo and remove the pinch bolt that holds the bellcrank to the pivot shaft.

3. Remove the four capscrews that hold the bellcrank pivot casting to the crossmember. The pivot assembly should then fall right out, although sometimes the bellcrank will need to be pried loose.

Once the pivot assembly is removed, the entire bellcrank with tie rods attached can be dropped or shifted enough to permit easy removal of the oil pan. While the pivot assembly is out, you can take it apart, check the bearings (or bushings, depending upon year) and renew them if necessary. Sloppy bellcrank pivots can account for looseness in the steering. It's an easy and inexpensive thing to fix, but gets neglected a lot. Most "lubrication technicians" are blissfuly unaware of that grease fitting (which you had to remove in order to get the casting out).

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

[52 Ragtop]

Check with a reputable Collision Center with a computer measuring system, They can do comparative measurements, length, height and width. It does look like maybe the engine mounts broke and the engine lerched forward into the bellcrank. But, for 2-3 hours for a set up and measure (frame rates vary from state to state) it would be worth it.
Just my 2 cents worth

Jim

[whacker]

Second everything that has been said so far. The oil pan can be repaired, however you should be able to find an undamaged one on eBay for a reasonable price, or I have a spare I would be happy to sell. If you are interested, shoot me an email and we can figure out something.

[63t-cab]

I'm wondering how much movement is needed to put the pan against the bellcrank?and could the engine move that much without harming the function of the transmission linkages?

Joseph R. Zeiger

[dpson]

Something seems odd about that oil pan. The size of the sump looks bigger than that normally used on passenger cars. Perhaps its just the angle of the photo, but doesn't the pan normally sweep up towards the front. Did they make a larger sump oil pan for trucks?

Dan Peterson
Montpelier, VT
1960 Lark V-8 Convertible
1960 Lark V-8 Convertible (parts car)
1961 Lark Crusier
1962 Lark V-8 Regal Convertible

[barnlark]

J&T, I don't remember the front of your car looking that smashed up enough to bend that frame. A little on the abused, rusty front panel, but didn't look repainted from an accident. Am I right? Does the frame look bent anywhere under there on either side? Gord already beat me to the oil pan drop idea. I agree with Biggs, new mounts make a huge difference. Every vendor near you has those and maybe even some extras here on the forum.

Anyone know if they had access to a cherry picker and since they are replacing all four mounts anyway, perhaps they could disconnect the exhaust & accelerator linkage enough to then lift the engine up enough to pull that pan out. Not sure if it would then be enough room.

[Carl Purdy]

I'm with Dan P on this one wrong pan. You got my curious up. When I go to barn in the morning I'm going to look.


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