'57 Commander 'Bluebird' to be restored! Help?

[mausersmth]

I debated long and hard on the question to customize or restore. I still think a Commander would make a great starting point for a custom! I just don't have the confidence in my taste to trust myself with the job! (I've seen a few really ugly customs!) Besides, even at the nationals you don't see many of them.

I'm ordering the Build Sheet. Goal for the car is to be a second driver when my other car is in the shop or I want a change, and to score a second or better in her class at South Bend.

Now the questions start...

How close should I stick to the Build Sheet? Does it com into play when the car is judged?

What kind of upgrades/options am I allowed without losing points?

How bad would the point loss be for the following:
Radial wide whites on Ford rims? Aftermarket wheels? (Dayton wires considered.)
Trunk mounted Vintage Air unit, modern compressor?
Hidden stereo?
Turner brakes?

Should I consider adding options NOT on the Build Sheet?

Should I go back to the Factory color(s)? If not, what combinations were offered in '57? (Saw the '55 on the cover of the latest TW, was anything close available in '57?)

That should get me started. Thanks in advance.



Charles Eck
Essex, MD

'57 Commander 4 door sedan, 'Bluebird'
'66 Ford F-250
'53 John Deere 50

Studebakers were made to drive! (Besides, they don't get lost as easy in the Wal-Mart parking lot!)

[BobPalma]

Charles, you must realize going in that many of those questions straddle the line between opinion and fact. So I'll take a stab at a few and gingerly stand back to dodge bullets.

If you are going to have it judged as stock, you still don't have to stay very close to the build sheet. None of the judges know how your car was equipped when new, but if you deviate from the build sheet, just be sure what you do was available on your car when it was manufactured.

Example: Maybe your car was built with no radio, but you want a correct, 1957 "Wonderbar" unit. Fine; knock yourself out. Locate and install a 1957 Wonderbar radio. You won't get nicked points even if you display a copy of the car's build order right there and it indicates no radio when shipped.

Conversely: You may think the Dayton Wire Wheels are really cool, but they will result in a points deduction because they weren't available on your car when it was built.

There is no longer a deduction for radial tires. Standard-issue Ford wheels probably won't be detected if you have full wheel covers, because they can't be readily seen.

By definition, if the stereo is hidden, the judges won't see it. So they can't take off points for it. No judge is going to open your glove box to see if there is a CD changer in there....but that means you'd better have it closed when the judges come around!

Turner disc brakes and a Turner dual-piston master cylinder bracket under the floor? I'm not familiar enough with judging issues to speculate on that; you'd better go to the judging forum and read the rules, or contact the Head Judge now, during the off-season.

You'll get nicked some authenticity points for air conditioning incorporating new-style components, in that air conditioning was available on your car when new.

Any factory color combination available on the car when new is acceptable.

Bottom Line: No one is going to compare the build order with the car as now represented if it could have been ordered and built so configured in 1957. BP

[mausersmth]

I know that Air was an option in '57, but I understand it is quite rare. I've gotten spoiled since I started driving Air conditioned cars, don't think I'd make the trip to South Bend without it!
Are the originals still out there, enough I might snag one without doubling the cost of the restoration?

Charles Eck
Essex, MD

'57 Commander 4 door sedan, 'Bluebird'
'66 Ford F-250
'53 John Deere 50

Studebakers were made to drive! (Besides, they don't get lost as easy in the Wal-Mart parking lot!)

[53k]

quote:Originally posted by mausersmth

I know that Air was an option in '57, but I understand it is quite rare. I've gotten spoiled since I started driving Air conditioned cars, don't think I'd make the trip to South Bend without it!
Are the originals still out there, enough I might snag one without doubling the cost of the restoration?

You probably don't want a factory air even if you could find one. They used a huge cast iron compressor that ran all the time and the evaporator was in the trunk.
It sounds to me as if you should go with the improvements (modifications) and just plan to compete in the modified class.

Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine
1962 Gravely Model L (Studebaker-Packard serial plate)
1972 Gravely Model 430 (Studebaker name plate, Studebaker Onan engine)

[PlainBrownR2]

If you're going the radial route remember you have four tires and a spare. At the last meet in SB they told me during judging they won't take off for radials(Yayyy), but they will take off for the bias ply still in the trunk, as it wasn't a matching tire (Gahhhh).

Oh and yeah it still holds air and yeah I know the do's and do not's with this tire in the event of a flat [)].

[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000137-1.jpg[/img=left][img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000145-1.jpg[/img=left][IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
[IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

[Johnnywiffer]

[mausersmth]

Yes, I know about the big York compressers. Got one, in fact. (Anyone needs it, make me an offer!) All the vibration and drag on the engine, I'll take the points loss for a modern unit, thank you!

I think her first show I'll try Div. 2, if I get hit too hard then the second one will be Div. 8. Might buy the Daytons anyway and swap back and forth, depending on where I'm going!

Charles Eck
Essex, MD

'57 Commander 4 door sedan, 'Bluebird'
'66 Ford F-250
'53 John Deere 50

Studebakers were made to drive! (Besides, they don't get lost as easy in the Wal-Mart parking lot!)

[BobPalma]

quote:Originally posted by Johnnywiffer

"No problem, Johnny." As you say, it was an example; there was no intention of it being anything else.

Even at that, a leftover 1957 car, one built without a radio, could have easily been fitted with a 1958 Signal-Seeking unit to close a sale. In that particular instance, I seriously doubt judges would catch it...and if they did, would probably not deduct.

Now, a 1964 AM-FM nicely installed in a 1957 Commander dash[:0], even if the 1964 AM-FM was a Studebaker/Delco factory unit, might be another matter! I mean, we know 1957 sales were only so-so, but I'm sure there were no new, unsold, leftover 1957s for sale in the fall of 1963! BP

[silverhawk]

[/quote]Now, a 1964 AM-FM nicely installed in a 1957 Commander dash[:0], even if the 1964 AM-FM was a Studebaker/Delco factory unit, might be another matter! I mean, we know 1957 sales were only so-so, but I'm sure there were no new, unsold, leftover 1957s for sale in the fall of 1963!
[/quote]

We sure hope not Mr.Palma!

Dylan
'61 lark deluxe 4dr wagon

[American Lead]

heres a place that will take an origional radio and restore it or even put brand new guts in it

http://www.radiosforoldcars.com/newradio0F.htm

You can't Spell Studebaker without STUD!

[mausersmth]

Think I'll leave the radio delete plate in place, hide an antenna above the headliner and a hidden stereo with an rf remote to take care of tunes. (Need a portable to play while waiting for the judge! It won't be hidden if the stereo's playing!) Dynamat in the doors, under the carpet and in the roof should make the car more comfortable without being seen.

Jim Pepper said the points loss for the air won't be too bad, maybe 2 points each for non-stock switch, evaporator and compressor. Hmmm... What did the controls look like for the trunk units? Could I adapt them to work the Vintage Air unit? Could save two points to make up for the stone chip I might miss!

About the spare... I plan on running F*rd wheels, won't show under the wheel covers. I don't run with a wheel cover on the spare! How many points would THAT cost? Should I take my best Stude wheel out and have a new rim welded on to match the width of the F*rds? Prepping for the show I could make sure that wheel is the one in the trunk!

Charles Eck
Essex, MD

'57 Commander 4 door sedan, 'Bluebird'
'66 Ford F-250
'53 John Deere 50

Studebakers were made to drive! (Besides, they don't get lost as easy in the Wal-Mart parking lot!)

[Dick Steinkamp]

Keep in mind that in the custom and modified classes you would be competing at a MUCH higher level. Only CONDITION is judged (fit, finish, cleanliness).

For example, a perfectly acceptable, no deduction paint job in a stock class will loose big points in a custom and modified class where straighter, shinier, and better fitting than stock is expected. (OTOH, a base coat/clear coat paint job will LOOSE points in a stock class).

The same would apply to a no deduction engine compartment, undercarriage, interior, etc. in a stock class, that would loose points in a modified class.

Everything else being near perfect, you can easily score a second in a stock class with the modifications you outlined.

In the very end, do you want to build the car for the judges or for yourself?




Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

[IMG][/IMG]

[BobPalma]

quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

In the very end, do you want to build the car for the judges or for yourself?

Dick Steinkamp

A good point; one to be taken frivolously. BP

[mausersmth]

quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

Keep in mind that in the custom and modified classes you would be competing at a MUCH higher level. Only CONDITION is judged (fit, finish, cleanliness).

In the very end, do you want to build the car for the judges or for yourself?

I want to drive this car, and I don't want to spend $10k on paint. Division 2 seems like a reasonable goal, as long as I don't think about Best in Show! I don't care how many cars score better then me. I do think that having the car judged might help me catch problems I overlooked. I never restored a car before.

Charles Eck
Essex, MD

'57 Commander 4 door sedan, 'Bluebird'
'66 Ford F-250
'53 John Deere 50

Studebakers were made to drive! (Besides, they don't get lost as easy in the Wal-Mart parking lot!)

[Lark Parker]

quote:
In the very end, do you want to build the car for the judges or for yourself?

Does this mean that if you are a judge then you are honor bound to build a car to near perfect standard?
If I were a judge I would hate detracting points from myself whenever I saw my car. I wouldn't be able to take the pressure of the relentless persecution.

SELF: "Get away from my car!"
SELF: "I can't, I need to go somewhere."
SELF: "You can't go until I fix that."
SELF: "I won't take off points for that."
SELF: "Oh, I know how you do, say its OK and then deduct points."
SELF: "No, honest I won't, I just want to drive it."
SELF: "Just get away from it.
SELF: "ok"
SELF: "I hear voices."
SELF: "Yeah, me too."

Lark Parker

Just an innocent possum strolling down life's highway.