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Dick Steinkamp
10-26-2008, 05:16 PM
http://tinyurl.com/5blwcs

A "no sale", but closed as high or higher than any GT Hawk I have seen on eBay.



Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Stude-a-mino%20old%20pics/oldpics6asmall.jpg

barnlark
10-26-2008, 05:34 PM
Worth a record. The serious buyers still came out in a tough economy. Really going to Barrett-Jackson, John?

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN1253_2.jpg

BobPalma
10-26-2008, 07:22 PM
:) If that final bid for that car doesn't confirm market conditions, I don't know what does...ouch! :DBP

Dick Steinkamp
10-26-2008, 07:31 PM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

:) If that final bid for that car doesn't confirm market conditions, I don't know what does...ouch! :DBP


I'm not sure about that Bob. It is an extremely fine GT, however...

NADA high book is $33,720. It is certainly a high book car, but NADA seems to be high relative to the actual market on many Studebakers. OCPG lists a #2 (same as NADA "high") at $17500 + 20% for an R2...total of $21,000. OCPG is generally low for Studebakers. $30k doesn't sound that far off relative to those.

In addition, it is not a 4 speed. I believe 4 speed cars have more "sex appeal" and generally sell for more than automatics. Then there is the color. I love it, but not all are as turned on by a green car as say a resale red one.

Also, it's not a package car. I don't believe this would make a whole lot of difference to a buyer, but maybe a few dollars.

I'm not sure what the record is for an R2 64 GT, but I'll bet what JDP's car bid to is close to it.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Stude-a-mino%20old%20pics/oldpics6asmall.jpg

bams50
10-26-2008, 07:44 PM
I wonder if the color hurts it- in my eyes pretty undesirable. Can't argue about the condition or workmanship; think what a comparable 64 GTO would have done... probably [:0]

If it were mine I think I would take the big gamble and try it at a B-J auction. It's definitely a true museum/big-dollar collection-type car!

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

BobPalma
10-26-2008, 08:14 PM
:) True, Dick & Bams. Three negatives: color, no package, and an automatic. No argument on any of those.

That said, and having examined the car at Lancaster, I still think it is undervalued at $30,000. We're all just having a good time bench-racing (bench-selling, I guess), but it seems to me the bare minimum for that car ought to be $40,000 all day long, especially with the dry (i.e, never-rusted) pedigree. :DBP

studefan
10-26-2008, 08:20 PM
Absolutely no question that's a $40K car. Unfortunately, it was listed on ebay during one of the worst weeks in financial history.

Dick Steinkamp
10-26-2008, 08:21 PM
quote:Originally posted by studefan

Absolutely no question that's a $40K car. Unfortunately, it was listed on ebay during one of the worst weeks in financial history.


Can you point to ANY other GT Hawk that has sold for $40k?...even during the BEST economic times.

John's is the best of the best, but are ANY worth $40k?



Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Stude-a-mino%20old%20pics/oldpics6asmall.jpg

nels
10-26-2008, 08:28 PM
I agree Bob on what it should bring. Once the 40 or 50 or even 60k mark is demonstrated on just one publicly sold car, the prices for the rest of Super Studes will fall right in line. A Barrett Jackson gamble is what it might take. But, with the auction rules of that house it could be an expensive ride even if you had to buy it back.
On the other hand, John may be negotiating a sale as we speak.

barnlark
10-26-2008, 08:30 PM
I avoided the gr**n word above, not wanting to continue another thread on that color and it's shortcomings. There is even red under the hood. ;) [:o)] That car is still worth plenty and the hard work we've seen go into it should be rewarded somewhere. Barrett-Jackson is a big gamble without some "catch" to sell it to a quirky guy with money, though.

studefan
10-26-2008, 08:48 PM
I was told a 63 R2 Lark sold for over $50K a couple years ago and I know of a 55 Speedster that sold for $60K last year (outside of ebay). Based on this, John's car should bring at least $40K. Barrett Jackson is too risky since they don't allow a reserve. I believe Mecum auction allows reserves so maybe that's an option to consider.

StudeDave57
10-26-2008, 09:07 PM
I don't think that it ought to be much of a surprise to us here on the Forum.
JDP told us what the reserve was, and the car closed below that number.
What's the big deal [?] [?] [?]

Personally- I like green. I just don't like GT Hawks!!!


StudeDave '57 [8D]
San Diego, Ca. (for now...)
San Diego County SDC
www.studebakersandiego.com

'54 Commander Regal 4dr 'Ruby'
'57 Parkview 'Betsy' (she's a 2dr wagon...)
'57 Commander DeLuxe 2dr 'Baby'
'57 Champion Custom 2dr 'Jewel'
'58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
'65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'

Part owner of the one and only
'55 PROTOTYPE panel van

Dick Steinkamp
10-26-2008, 09:23 PM
quote:Originally posted by barnlark
Barrett-Jackson is a big gamble without some "catch" to sell it to a quirky guy with money, though.


Barrett-Jackson isn't the "silver bullet" many think it is.

First of all, you have to get the car there. Not small bucks in an enclosed car hauler for most to Scottsdale in January or Palm Beach in April.

Then there is the $600 entry fee.

Then the 8% seller's fee.

Then your traveling and other expenses to be at the auction.

Then, you can't control when the car is run at the auction. We see all the high buck cars in prime time on TV. How about 1 pm on Tuesday when only the "bottom feeders" are there to bid.

Plus, BJ is only "no reserve" auctions now. It could sell for LESS than what you could get for it with lower cost sales methods.

Even if the car sells for top money at BJ, it may not make back your expenses to cover the difference.

It's a crap shoot. A BIG crap shoot.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Stude-a-mino%20old%20pics/oldpics6asmall.jpg

JDP
10-26-2008, 09:29 PM
Just a`quick note on NADA values. The excellent book value is not for a high point show car,more like a 370 up excellent car. My 63 gold GT powereshift non package car sold on ebay for 30K 2 yeas ago and it was a 374 point car and that was in line with NADA.
I did not expect to sell the car this time around and will relist it a few times before risking Barrette Jackson. In a better economy, 40K would be a bargain compared to some previous sales. I personally don't think the Jet green hurt the car very much, it's not a unattractive color.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

JDP
10-26-2008, 09:58 PM
Dave, it's safely tucked under it's cover in the garage and makes no difference to me if it sells now or in the spring. It may not set a record for the highest sale price, but it'll be a while before anyone spends as much on a restoration.:)
The good news is I bought the car when the PO was 50K plus in and finished for 10K more. If he'd paid the $75/ hour for the labor hours I put in to finish her, he'd have been pushing 100K. No one well ever go that nuts again, much of the NOS stuff used is long gone.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

58PackardWagon
10-26-2008, 10:18 PM
It is an absolutely perfect car. To recover costs and make a profit, it won't be selling on ebay. This economy will not support it. One would either have to sell it to a private party off line or to someone who has money to burn at Barrett Jackson.

JDP
10-26-2008, 10:30 PM
To be honest, I never expected to make any money on the car. I threw way to much money at it just so I could snag a first place and retire from ever trying another one.:) In hindsight, I should have built at 380 point 30K car that you could actually drive.


JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

barnlark
10-27-2008, 12:06 AM
John, I think after Charlotte you were determined to get as close to 400 as possible. How often does anyone hit 399? You did it. I had no idea the PO had that much into it, holy moly.
It is a great green. Much better than the '60 convertible. No one could restore it for that and find the parts anymore, so you'll get what you want eventually, I'm sure. I agree with Dick; Barrett-Jackson is a poker hand with way too much risk. I often wonder if people get close to that venue in AZ and offer the car outside of the show somewhere. There has to be a whole subculture of buyers looking for the rare deal somewhere else other than on stage and on the field.

nels
10-27-2008, 08:20 AM
Dick's right on not choosing the time of your auction. Way back when Kruse was king of the circuit, I put a 60 conv in the event at Auburn. They scheduled me for the last car at the auction on a Sat or Sun night, probably about 1 am. It ticked me off so I drove the Lark right up in line between two Duesengergs at about 10 PM. They never noticed until it was to late. It was fun as evry drunk wife in the bidding section was on top of the car while the Duesies were selling. It ended up selling for about $3700 which was about 1700 more than I expected. One of the old guys at the auction bought it for his young wife. I lucked out and yes, that was many years ago.

nels
10-27-2008, 08:28 AM
Barrett Jackson may have to change it's policies for the auction if the economy bites hard into the car market. But if that happens it would just be a sign that the cars won't bring the old money we think we are used to.

Green53
10-27-2008, 09:32 AM
I agree Barrett-Jackson is just too big of a gamble considering the expense to bring the car from the East coast. Russo-Steele is a viable option. High end cars but with reserves.
Denny L

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Daytona64/53Stude2015.jpg

JBOYLE
10-27-2008, 11:15 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp
Barrett-Jackson isn't the "silver bullet" many think it is.

First of all, you have to get the car there.
Then there is the $600 entry fee.

Then the 8% seller's fee.

Then your traveling and other expenses to be at the auction.

Then, you can't control when the car is run at the auction.
Plus, BJ is only "no reserve" auctions now. It could sell for LESS than what you could get for it with lower cost sales methods.

Even if the car sells for top money at BJ, it may not make back your expenses to cover the difference.

It's a crap shoot. A BIG crap shoot.

Dick Steinkamp


Agree...
After the (somewhat) low prices in the recent Vegas auction, and the fact that most other firms (including most high-dollar/pound/euro/yen ones) have gone back to reserve auctions, I wouldn't be too surprised to see B-J institute a reserve policy where you can place a reserve on a car..usually for an extra consignors fee.

For the past year or so, he concensus from a lot of collector auto pros is that owners won't risk their top flight cars in this uncertain market.
Now B-J's ace in the hole is the TV coverage...but that ego factor alone won't get people to risk great cars for so-so dollars....unless B-J wants to sell nothing but overpriced first generation Camaros.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

Andy R.
10-27-2008, 04:01 PM
Perhaps an "outside" buyer with deeper pockets will emerge after Mr. Palma's "Hi-Po Studebakers" article in [u]Collectible Automobile</u> hits the stands.

..That is, if we aren't lining up at the soup kitchen by then.


Andy
62 GT
http://a6.vox.com/6a00cdf7ec2443094f00e398c6501e0004-pi

[Edited for spelling]

jimmijim8
10-27-2008, 06:35 PM
"It will be a while before anybody spends as much on a restoration." {not my words}. Amen. Why?, since you can buy one already done for less. A super nice car and I really like the color. Wish I had the parts that were swapped out. Wish I had the money to bl!@, I mean buy. jimmijim

JDP
10-27-2008, 06:51 PM
Jimijim, I wonder what happened to those parts too. Probably tossed in the dumpster at the restoration shop. Crazy stuff was replaced like "hard" parts that were fine or could be rebuilt like disk rotors, calipers, PS pump, tie rods and the like. I'd call it a check book restoration by someone that had the money to burn.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

JBOYLE
10-27-2008, 08:29 PM
I don't think $30K is that expensive.
We've seen Avantis go for more and a R-2 GT is much rarer...

As I'm finding out (and I knew before I started this) if you buy a solid car and do just about anything to it (paint, interior, etc.) you'll have $30K in it.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

BobPalma
10-27-2008, 08:41 PM
:) I wonder if anyone has ever done any psychological testing to see the extent to which color preferences change as a person ages. When I was 18 years old in 1964, I would have had no use for either Jet Green or Strato Blue.

Now, I'm actually partial to them in certain applications, and feel Jet Green does go well on a GT Hawk. That doesn't mean I'd rank it equally salable to Bordeaux Red...but as a personal preference, it's a thumbs-up where it wasn't 40+ years ago. :DBP

A1956GoldenHawk
10-27-2008, 11:28 PM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

:) I wonder if anyone has ever done any psychological testing to see the extent to which color preferences change as a person ages. When I was 18 years old in 1964, I would have had no use for either Jet Green or Strato Blue.
&lt;snip&gt;


If you 'started' liking Greens & Blues, just peek at your wife's wardrobe. If it's predominately greens & blues, you have just completed a psychological test.:D

Automotive colors follow women's high fashion colors ...not the other way around.[:0] Back in 1995, the chief automotive color stylist at PPG's (the old Ditzler brand) studio in Troy, MI, told me "greens" would be "in" through the end of the decade ...and she was right!!!;)


The older I get ...the better I was!

BobPalma
10-28-2008, 06:20 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp
Barrett-Jackson isn't the "silver bullet" many think it is.

First of all, you have to get the car there. Not small bucks in an enclosed car hauler for most to Scottsdale in January or Palm Beach in April.

Then there is the $600 entry fee.

Then the 8% seller's fee.

Then your traveling and other expenses to be at the auction.

Then, you can't control when the car is run at the auction. We see all the high buck cars in prime time on TV. How about 1 pm on Tuesday when only the "bottom feeders" are there to bid.

Plus, BJ is only "no reserve" auctions now. It could sell for LESS than what you could get for it with lower cost sales methods.

Even if the car sells for top money at BJ, it may not make back your expenses to cover the difference.

It's a crap shoot. A BIG crap shoot.

Dick Steinkamp



:) Dick: Thanks for that post and the figures cited. Illuminating, to say the least. Just for fun, I crunched some numbers to see what would happen if John had an enclosed trailer and late-model diesel truck to take it to Scottsdale.

MapQuest calls the trip from Arnold MD to Scottsdale AZ 2,335 miles; 4,670 RT. 4,670 miles at $1.50 per mile for fuel, very possible with diesel prices and pulling a large enclosed trailer, yields a direct fuel expense of $7,000. (If I'm high on that figure, I really think I'm low on the next one.)

If you average 470 miles per day, you are on the road 10 days RT. Add 5 days at Scottsdale for the auction and you have 15 days motel and meal expense. It might be a stretch, but maybe you could pull off 15 days at $125 each for meals and motels; total $1,900.

Now you've spent $8,900 RT. You pay the $600 entry fee and your total is up to $9,500.

Then the car sells for $50,000...certainly the most ambitious price imaginable if exactly the right person is there, plus one shill to help him/her get coaxed up to 50 large. So John accepts his check for $46,000 after paying the 8% selling commission you cited.

$46,000 less the $9,500 you spent getting there and back = $36,500 net, with no allowance for wear & tear on you or the truck and trailer...and that's assuming it sells for the highly-speculative $50,000.

Hmmmm.....:DBP

8E45E
10-28-2008, 07:41 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


Now, I'm actually partial to them in certain applications, and feel Jet Green does go well on a GT Hawk. That doesn't mean I'd rank it equally salable to Bordeaux Red...but as a personal preference, it's a thumbs-up where it wasn't 40+ years ago. :DBP


Now...if a shade similar to the 1976 AMC Sunshine Yellow was offered in 1964, would YOU have really wanted a Hawk in that color??:D

Craig

barnlark
10-28-2008, 08:05 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma
"$46,000 less the $9,500 you spent getting there and back = $36,500 net, with no allowance for wear & tear on you or the truck and trailer...and that's assuming it sells for the highly-speculative $50,000."
Hmmmm.....:DBP


That's an excellent Decimal Dude look at what it takes to gamble in Scottsdale. ;) I wouldn't do it this year. Ebay was pretty close to those final numbers without the stress vacation.

BobPalma
10-28-2008, 08:22 AM
quote:Originally posted by 8E45E


quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


Now, I'm actually partial to them in certain applications, and feel Jet Green does go well on a GT Hawk. That doesn't mean I'd rank it equally salable to Bordeaux Red...but as a personal preference, it's a thumbs-up where it wasn't 40+ years ago. :DBP


Now...if a shade similar to the 1976 AMC Sunshine Yellow was offered in 1964, would YOU have really wanted a Hawk in that color??:D

Craig


:D An interesting and legitimate question, Craig! There's lots of psychology in how colors come and go, but the industry just didn't have bright yellows in that era except Corvette.

You're right; who would want a 1964 Hawk or Daytona Convertible in bright yellow[xx(]...but barely a decade later, it was first choice for my ordered 1975 Pacer [:p]and remains my favorite color for the 1973 Mustang convertible[8D] I still own. :DBP

studeski
10-28-2008, 08:27 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp
Barrett-Jackson isn't the "silver bullet" many think it is.

First of all, you have to get the car there. Not small bucks in an enclosed car hauler for most to Scottsdale in January or Palm Beach in April.

Then there is the $600 entry fee.

Then the 8% seller's fee.

Then your traveling and other expenses to be at the auction.

Then, you can't control when the car is run at the auction. We see all the high buck cars in prime time on TV. How about 1 pm on Tuesday when only the "bottom feeders" are there to bid.

Plus, BJ is only "no reserve" auctions now. It could sell for LESS than what you could get for it with lower cost sales methods.

Even if the car sells for top money at BJ, it may not make back your expenses to cover the difference.

It's a crap shoot. A BIG crap shoot.

Dick Steinkamp



:) Dick: Thanks for that post and the figures cited. Illuminating, to say the least. Just for fun, I crunched some numbers to see what would happen if John had an enclosed trailer and late-model diesel truck to take it to Scottsdale.

MapQuest calls the trip from Arnold MD to Scottsdale AZ 2,335 miles; 4,670 RT. 4,670 miles at $1.50 per mile for fuel, very possible with diesel prices and pulling a large enclosed trailer, yields a direct fuel expense of $7,000. (If I'm high on that figure, I really think I'm low on the next one.)

If you average 470 miles per day, you are on the road 10 days RT. Add 5 days at Scottsdale for the auction and you have 15 days motel and meal expense. It might be a stretch, but maybe you could pull off 15 days at $125 each for meals and motels; total $1,900.

Now you've spent $8,900 RT. You pay the $600 entry fee and your total is up to $9,500.

Then the car sells for $50,000...certainly the most ambitious price imaginable if exactly the right person is there, plus one shill to help him/her get coaxed up to 50 large. So John accepts his check for $46,000 after paying the 8% selling commission you cited.

$46,000 less the $9,500 you spent getting there and back = $36,500 net, with no allowance for wear & tear on you or the truck and trailer...and that's assuming it sells for the highly-speculative $50,000.

Hmmmm.....:DBP



Bob,
You left out one factor. Then John takes a short jaunt to Las Vegas and wins $32000 at the casino.

Reset calculator..............

Claude Chmielewski
Studeski
http://www.studeski.com
Fillmore, Wisconsin
47 M-16 Truck
62 GT Hawk
63 Lark
64 Commander Wagonaire
50 Champion Regal (parts car)
[img=left]http://www.studeski.com/62hawk/62hawka/dakota01_250.jpg[/img=left]

nels
10-28-2008, 08:32 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp
Barrett-Jackson isn't the "silver bullet" many think it is.

First of all, you have to get the car there. Not small bucks in an enclosed car hauler for most to Scottsdale in January or Palm Beach in April.

Then there is the $600 entry fee.

Then the 8% seller's fee.

Then your traveling and other expenses to be at the auction.

Then, you can't control when the car is run at the auction. We see all the high buck cars in prime time on TV. How about 1 pm on Tuesday when only the "bottom feeders" are there to bid.

Plus, BJ is only "no reserve" auctions now. It could sell for LESS than what you could get for it with lower cost sales methods.

Even if the car sells for top money at BJ, it may not make back your expenses to cover the difference.

It's a crap shoot. A BIG crap shoot.

Dick Steinkamp



:) Dick: Thanks for that post and the figures cited. Illuminating, to say the least. Just for fun, I crunched some numbers to see what would happen if John had an enclosed trailer and late-model diesel truck to take it to Scottsdale.

MapQuest calls the trip from Arnold MD to Scottsdale AZ 2,335 miles; 4,670 RT. 4,670 miles at $1.50 per mile for fuel, very possible with diesel prices and pulling a large enclosed trailer, yields a direct fuel expense of $7,000. (If I'm high on that figure, I really think I'm low on the next one.)

If you average 470 miles per day, you are on the road 10 days RT. Add 5 days at Scottsdale for the auction and you have 15 days motel and meal expense. It might be a stretch, but maybe you could pull off 15 days at $125 each for meals and motels; total $1,900.

Now you've spent $8,900 RT. You pay the $600 entry fee and your total is up to $9,500.

Then the car sells for $50,000...certainly the most ambitious price imaginable if exactly the right person is there, plus one shill to help him/her get coaxed up to 50 large. So John accepts his check for $46,000 after paying the 8% selling commission you cited.

$46,000 less the $9,500 you spent getting there and back = $36,500 net, with no allowance for wear & tear on you or the truck and trailer...and that's assuming it sells for the highly-speculative $50,000.

Hmmmm.....:DBP

nels
10-28-2008, 08:40 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

[quote]Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp
Barrett-Jackson isn't the "silver bullet" many think it is.

First of all, you have to get the car there. Not small bucks in an enclosed car hauler for most to Scottsdale in January or Palm Beach in April.

Then there is the $600 entry fee.

Then the 8% seller's fee.

Then your traveling and other expenses to be at the auction.

Then, you can't control when the car is run at the auction. We see all the high buck cars in prime time on TV. How about 1 pm on Tuesday when only the "bottom feeders" are there to bid.

Plus, BJ is only "no reserve" auctions now. It could sell for LESS than what you could get for it with lower cost sales methods.

Even if the car sells for top money at BJ, it may not make back your expenses to cover the difference.

It's a crap shoot. A BIG crap shoot.

Dick Steinkamp



:) Dick: Thanks for that post and the figures cited. Illuminating, to say the least. Just for fun, I crunched some numbers to see what would happen if John had an enclosed trailer and late-model diesel truck to take it to Scottsdale.

MapQuest calls the trip from Arnold MD to Scottsdale AZ 2,335 miles; 4,670 RT. 4,670 miles at $1.50 per mile for fuel, very possible with diesel prices and pulling a large enclosed trailer, yields a direct fuel expense of $7,000. (If I'm high on that figure, I really think I'm low on the next one.)

If you average 470 miles per day, you are on the road 10 days RT. Add 5 days at Scottsdale for the auction and you have 15 days motel and meal expense. It might be a stretch, but maybe you could pull off 15 days at $125 each for meals and motels; total $1,900.

Now you've spent $8,900 RT. You pay the $600 entry fee and your total is up to $9,500.

Then the car sells for $50,000...certainly the most ambitious price imaginable if exactly the right person is there, plus one shill to help him/her get coaxed up to 50 large. So John accepts his check for $46,000 after paying the 8% selling commission you cited.

$46,000 less the $9,500 you spent getting there and back = $36,500 net, with no allowance for wear & tear on you or the truck and trailer...and that's assuming it sells for the highly-speculative $50,000.


Probably a little high on the $7k, Bob. Would probably ship the car out for 1800 to 2000, fly out for 600 r/t, skip many of the extra nites in the motel due to not driving cross country and back......but if the car doesn't sell, John buys it back at the 10% buyer's fee, and pays 1.8 to 2k to ship it home. The risk is high but eventually it will happen, maybe a Stude guy in Calif will try or something.
I also think that the right Stude at the right time could bring in excess of 50K at that auction, maybe 75 plus.

BobPalma
10-28-2008, 09:21 AM
quote:Originally posted by studeski

Bob,
You left out one factor. Then John takes a short jaunt to Las Vegas and wins $32000 at the casino.

Reset calculator..............

Claude Chmielewski


;) I knew I left something out of the equation![:0] Thanks for the correction, Claude.[}:)] :DBP

JDP
10-28-2008, 10:10 AM
I can get the car to Scottsdale for $1500 in a enclosed trailer and fly out to nearby Vegas on the casino's dime, but there is still the risk. Looking at previous auctions, you never know what will happen, and that's the risk. The 15K M series truck that sold for 72K was a winner as were 50K Golden Hawks, but that was in a better economy.
I can try ebay a few more times before deciding.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

Green53
10-28-2008, 11:28 AM
The Florida auctions are another option. R-M brings in good prices as well.
Denny L

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff85/Daytona64/53Stude2015.jpg

JBOYLE
10-28-2008, 11:47 AM
I wouldn't risk a GT at B-J with [u]no-reserve</u>.
Not that many people have a Stude on their "must have" shopping list.

If it didn't sell within the club (I'd guess that a high percentage of the US population that wants one has seen the car on this forum) or on ebay, the only hope for a B-J sale would be somebody buying it on a whim (he's never seen one before and likes it, or the wife likes the color).

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

JDP
10-28-2008, 11:58 AM
That's exactly how I sold a GT some 30 years ago at a Kruse auction in Atlantic City. I had a $3500 reserve on the car and it sold for well over that. The high bidder, a brand X guy, was shocked it was "so cheap" That was the same auction where Ed Ellis sold his Studebaker 4 wheel drive for 50K a few years back.

I don't think a SDC member will end up with myy car, but I'd sell it at my break even price of 35K on the off chance someone would.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

N8N
10-28-2008, 12:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


quote:Originally posted by 8E45E


quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


Now, I'm actually partial to them in certain applications, and feel Jet Green does go well on a GT Hawk. That doesn't mean I'd rank it equally salable to Bordeaux Red...but as a personal preference, it's a thumbs-up where it wasn't 40+ years ago. :DBP


Now...if a shade similar to the 1976 AMC Sunshine Yellow was offered in 1964, would YOU have really wanted a Hawk in that color??:D

Craig


:D An interesting and legitimate question, Craig! There's lots of psychology in how colors come and go, but the industry just didn't have bright yellows in that era except Corvette.

You're right; who would want a 1964 Hawk or Daytona Convertible in bright yellow[xx(]...but barely a decade later, it was first choice for my ordered 1975 Pacer [:p]and remains my favorite color for the 1973 Mustang convertible[8D] I still own. :DBP


I have actually seen a bright yellow '64 GT. I think JDP might have briefly owned it. the car I'm thinking of was pretty rusty.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

JDP
10-28-2008, 12:36 PM
Yep, had a yellow one, not bad looking, but rusty.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

BobPalma
10-28-2008, 01:04 PM
:) I remember the bright yellow one JDP had, too, Nate....but I'm trying hard to forget it. In fact, it may be the reason I wouldn't want a yellow one![:0];):DBP

8E45E
10-28-2008, 01:17 PM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma
There's lots of psychology in how colors come and go, but the industry just didn't have bright yellows in that era except Corvette.



It is rather interesting how things changed not long after 1964 with the muscle cars. Ford with their 'Grabber' colors, AMC with the 'Big Bad' colors, and Chrysler's 5 optional colors; all designed to make a bold statement. As for the 'age' part, the brand new Dodge Challenger is also available in these bright colors as well, and I'll stick my neck out and say its the ones old enough to remember the original E-body cars who will order them in those original hues.

Craig

JDP
10-28-2008, 01:23 PM
Here's a yellow one Studebob and I did.

http://stude.com/sold/64o.jpg

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

studegary
10-28-2008, 02:30 PM
I liked Jet Green in 1964 (a friend bought a Jet Green R1 '64 Hawk new) and I still like it. My everyday driver is an Acura in Emerald Green that is almost the same as Jet Green.

I now like AT for everyday use in the traffic around here, but AT or Std. is about equal for me in a limited use car.

I would suggest putting the car in one of the major auctions in Atlantic City or Myrtle Island. The transport would be much less and I think that the car will be more desirable on the East Coast.

John - Your offer is very tempting. One of the main problems is that I always drive cars. I have never trailered a show car. To maintain the value of your Hawk, I believe that it woud have to be trailered to meets at a distance.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

A1956GoldenHawk
10-28-2008, 07:44 PM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma
:) Dick: Thanks for that post and the figures cited. Illuminating, to say the least. Just for fun, I crunched some numbers to see what would happen if John had an enclosed trailer and late-model diesel truck to take it to Scottsdale.

MapQuest calls the trip from Arnold MD to Scottsdale AZ 2,335 miles; 4,670 RT. 4,670 miles at $1.50 per mile for fuel, very possible with diesel prices and pulling a large enclosed trailer, yields a direct fuel expense of $7,000. (If I'm high on that figure, I really think I'm low on the next one.)

If you average 470 miles per day, you are on the road 10 days RT. Add 5 days at Scottsdale for the auction and you have 15 days motel and meal expense. It might be a stretch, but maybe you could pull off 15 days at $125 each for meals and motels; total $1,900.

Now you've spent $8,900 RT. You pay the $600 entry fee and your total is up to $9,500.

Then the car sells for $50,000...certainly the most ambitious price imaginable if exactly the right person is there, plus one shill to help him/her get coaxed up to 50 large. So John accepts his check for $46,000 after paying the 8% selling commission you cited.

$46,000 less the $9,500 you spent getting there and back = $36,500 net, with no allowance for wear & tear on you or the truck and trailer...and that's assuming it sells for the highly-speculative $50,000.

Hmmmm.....:DBP


Costs? ...COSTS? What do "costs" have to do with doing it up right for B-J's Scottsdale auction???

Bottomline; "If you can't afford to run with the big dogs, stick with eBay."

:D[:o)]


The older I get ...the better I was!