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JBOYLE
10-22-2008, 10:41 AM
Over on the AOAI forum a question arose about the colors of stock carpets.

One member said that all early Avantis (up to a 46XX serial no)
had salt & pepper (or tuxedo) carpet. The later cars had all black.
Is that accurate?

If the cars originally came with S&P, and a car has fawn dash/upper door panels/headliner and black seats...what would the carpet colors be?

Some think the carpet colors would be fawn & black, i.e. matching the interior colors...

others think the carpet colors would be matched to exterior paint colors so the carpet would be (black & red, black & turquoise, etc.)?

Any idea which is correct?

Thanks...

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

Avantidon
10-22-2008, 11:09 AM
This is an extremely interesting question and the correct answer depends on who you are talking too. One thing is for sure this was a running production change and determining just when it happened is pure speculation. It is knoown that all alte production 63's classified as 64's and all square headlight 64's all had solid black carpet. I have found that most early production cars had carpet matched to the interior color of the car. IE: a White Exterior with the orange interior had the orange spected carpet.

As for your first question, I suspectthe carpet would have been black. and fawn to match the interior.

An SDC Avanti judge would look for this carpet but probably not deduct points if the car had solid black carpet in it either.

jlmccuan
10-22-2008, 11:45 AM
My '63, #3152, has turquoise and black carpet, black seats and fawn dash and package tray. I'm reasonably sure they are original.

Jim
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/AvantiSignature.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/AvantiSigB.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/Logo/RabidSnailSignature.jpg
_________1966 Avanti II RQA 0088______________________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152_______________Rabid Snail Racing

61Lark
10-22-2008, 12:29 PM
My Avanti #2382 has a gold exterior with black interior. It does have the S&P carpet, but it looks like it is gold and black not fawn and black. I can look at it this weekend to make sure.

Nick

edited for spelling

WCP
10-22-2008, 12:43 PM
Since all '63's had fawn dash, upper door panels and headliner bolsters etc., the logic doesn't follow that the carpets would be color & fawn, as many other variations occurred. Red cars had red/black carpets, turquoise had turq/blk etc. Gold cars and black cars would probably reveal the answer. My "grunt gold" Avanti with elk interior had black/fawn carpets. Were any other combinations used with gold cars? The July 1962 parts manual lists solid black carpets as being available, but was it an option or just for black cars?

JBOYLE
10-22-2008, 12:51 PM
quote:Originally posted by WCP
The July 1962 parts manual lists solid black carpets as being available, but was it an option or just for black cars?


Another good question.
Any idea if the production order would give a hint?

My red car has all-black carpets...but they sure could have been changed in 46 years...but the door panels & door panel carpet sure look original.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

WCP
10-22-2008, 01:10 PM
A good point. The build ticket for my car was written on June 26/62. There does not appear to be an option number for carpet selection. Could the dealer request a specific carpet? Someone should have the info on what the dealers could order on the '63's.

Retired
10-22-2008, 01:52 PM
Ok, Lets Hit It: 1963 Avanti, build date, 3-5-63. BKV Interior, (Black vinyl, seats,lower portion of doors and rear qtr. panels.)

Carpet, Turquoise & black.

Perforated seats.

Carpet color is not listed on production order

Richard

JDP
10-22-2008, 01:52 PM
Easy answer. The salt and pepper carpets high light color was turquoise with turquoise seats, orange with orange, red with red and so on.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

JBOYLE
10-22-2008, 03:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

Easy answer. The salt and pepper carpets high light color was turquoise with turquoise seats, orange with orange, red with red and so on.


So you're saying with black seats the carpet would be all black?

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

JDP
10-22-2008, 03:28 PM
No, they were fawn and black on early cars with black seats. Good catch on the exception.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

Bob Langer
10-22-2008, 04:30 PM
This may answer some questions about what was available.



http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/Scan0001-7.jpg

Bob Langer
Glenshaw,PA

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/cropped-1.jpg

JBOYLE
10-22-2008, 05:13 PM
That chart seems to answer the question...
unless all black carpet was optional by request.
To be honest, I'd prefer all black, but I hate to stray from factory correct.
Phantom seems to be the only supplier with S&P carpet...
anyone know of anyone else?

The chart poses a new question...
was Regal trim or the Deluxe trim standard?
Was there an extra cost for the other?

I haven't seen one with the Deluxe trim with perforated seat inserts.

ADDED...after reading ClaymoreWW's post, I see where I misread the chart...now it makes sense! [:I]

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

ClaymoreWW
10-22-2008, 05:20 PM
My (relatively uneducated) assessment of the Deluxe/Regal question would be that there was STANDARD Deluxe, OPTIONAL Deluxe and OPTIONAL Regal.

It is interesting that if you had a turquoise exterior, you could only get the S&P turquoise carpet.

--george

1963 Lark Daytona HT - 63V J8 175
http://www.teamwetworks.com/claymore/larkkey.jpg

JDP
10-22-2008, 07:19 PM
The Phantom and my salt and pepper is not very close, but it's as close as you can get. It's the modern "tuxedo" and the color ratio is off:

http://www.auto-interior.com/tuxedo.htm

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

WCP
10-22-2008, 08:20 PM
I changed my gold Avanti to a modified turquoise with elk/fawn interior and solid black carpets from JDP - technically incorrect but it looks right. I dislike the salt & pepper look. Of course I also changed the auto trans to a "superduty" T5 manual and some other minor modifications to create a show worthy driver - 10 foot authenticity!

63Avanti
10-23-2008, 10:47 AM
This is GOLDEN!!
To show my appreciation, I am asking for more!
could you scan the bottom sheet and put it also up?
many thanks for this!!!!


quote:Originally posted by Bob Langer

This may answer some questions about what was available.



http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/Scan0001-7.jpg

Bob Langer
Glenshaw,PA

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/cropped-1.jpg





Terry, North Texas
1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065
(in stage 1 resto "Project A")
http://sterkel.org/avanti
1985 Kubota L2202(Diesel)
1999 Toyota rice burner
1986 Ford 150 Long Bed

New resolution.
I will continue to respond, to the best of my ability, to any query,
challenge or alternative view relevant to my original post.
I will not respond to anything off (the original) topic...

Avantidon
10-23-2008, 11:20 AM
Bob, thanks for clearing up a long standing issue and posting this valuab;e chart.

Bob Langer
10-23-2008, 02:22 PM
Don and Terry, you are welcome. Terry, there is nothing more on that sheet to scan. Here is the info for the 1964 Avanti.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/Scan0003-4.jpg

For those wanting to know when the carpet was changed I got this information from an article by Fred Fox in the Oct.,1987 issue of Turning Wheels. He details when the salt and pepper carpet was changed to all black.

Red and black R-4275

Turquoise and black R-4314

Orange and black R-4399

Fawn and black R-4709

Bob Langer
Glenshaw,PA

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/cropped-1.jpg

edited for additional content

63Avanti
10-23-2008, 03:03 PM
More GOLD!

quote:Originally posted by Bob Langer

Don and Terry, you are welcome. Terry, there is nothing more on that sheet to scan. Here is the info for the 1964 Avanti.


Bob Langer
Glenshaw,PA

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/cropped-1.jpg





Terry, North Texas
1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065
(in stage 1 resto "Project A")
http://sterkel.org/avanti
1985 Kubota L2202(Diesel)
1999 Toyota rice burner
1986 Ford 150 Long Bed

New resolution.
I will continue to respond, to the best of my ability, to any query,
challenge or alternative view relevant to my original post.
I will not respond to anything off (the original) topic...

redbox
10-24-2008, 06:01 AM
While at Lancaster last month I was showing some of the Avanti owners pictures of mine. Two different people told me the seats were not original because of the perforated inserts. These charts shows that I was right.

I guess I will need to carry the chart with me.

Avantidon
10-24-2008, 06:52 AM
Bob, again thanks for the info.

Redbox it all depends on who you are talking too but i would throw the chart in my glovebox just to have it with me. My 63 R-2 (R2372) is modified with an all leather interior and brown carpet so it always goes in the Stude powered modified class so carpet is not an issue with me.

63Avanti
10-24-2008, 07:08 AM
I am going to laminate it, along with the original window sheet.
Both in the glove compartment.

quote:Originally posted by redbox

While at Lancaster last month I was showing some of the Avanti owners pictures of mine. Two different people told me the seats were not original because of the perforated inserts. These charts shows that I was right.

I guess I will need to carry the chart with me.





Terry, North Texas
1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065
(in stage 1 resto "Project A")
http://sterkel.org/avanti
1985 Kubota L2202(Diesel)
1999 Toyota rice burner
1986 Ford 150 Long Bed

New resolution.
I will continue to respond, to the best of my ability, to any query,
challenge or alternative view relevant to my original post.
I will not respond to anything off (the original) topic...

Bob Langer
10-24-2008, 08:40 AM
quote:Originally posted by 63Avanti

I am going to laminate it, along with the original window sheet.
Both in the glove compartment.

quote:Originally posted by redbox

While at Lancaster last month I was showing some of the Avanti owners pictures of mine. Two different people told me the seats were not original because of the perforated inserts. These charts shows that I was right.

I guess I will need to carry the chart with me.







http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/scan0003-6.jpg

Bob Langer
Glenshaw,PA

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/cropped-1.jpg

stugatsr2
10-24-2008, 11:40 AM
serial # 3054 white ext. regal red upholstery red/black carpet
all original.

JBOYLE
10-24-2008, 12:35 PM
quote:Originally posted by stugatsr2

serial # 3054 white ext. regal red upholstery red/black carpet
all original.


Could someone with orig S&P carpet please post a photo?
The correct stuff is NLA (per JDP) and evan Phantoms S&P has wrong proportions of color mix (per JDP) and their red looks too orange (per photo sent by Phantom).

So just out of curiosity, I'd like to see what it's supposed to look like.


And there is a very outside chance that the very high end upholstry shop (the guys that did the big buck street rods that were the top sellers at B-J in 2005-6) here might have a match for it. Can't hurt to ask...


63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

jlmccuan
10-24-2008, 01:35 PM
I've got some shots of the turquoise and black, if it will help.

Jim
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/AvantiSignature.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/AvantiSigB.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/Logo/RabidSnailSignature.jpg
_________1966 Avanti II RQA 0088______________________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152_______________Rabid Snail Racing

StudeRich
10-24-2008, 01:38 PM
No need any longer to post what your car has, since we now have the original charts FOR CORRECT COLORS (thank you, Bob Langer!)

I sure thought like JDP, that whatever color the seats were, the Carpet color with the black Salt & Pepper would MATCH! Apparently not, it depends on the car Color! A Turquoise '63 with Elk Vinyl seats and mid door panels would have TURQUOISE CARPET! BUT... a Gold car with Orange seats, would have ORANGE carpet! As George noted.

I don't COMPLETELY agree though that there were THREE Interior design OPTIONS! I read that to mean that on Deluxe interiors you had a choice of the "Standard" color for your CAR color OR a no cost option for the others. But the Regal Interior was an extra COST option, so all available colors were optional. Pretty much the same I guess, depending on how you word it!

I definitely like the Salt and Pepper, ANY car can have solid color or Black carpet :(, and most do!

The Salt & Pepper shows less soil than a solid color like, Turquoise, Red, or Fawn would. But yet, it can match/blend with the seats or the car color.


quote:Originally posted by stugatsr2

serial # 3054 white ext. regal red upholstery red/black carpet
all original.

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

Bob Langer
10-24-2008, 01:46 PM
quote:[i]Originally posted by JBOYLE[

Could someone with orig S&P carpet please post a photo?
The correct stuff is NLA (per JDP) and evan Phantoms S&P has wrong proportions of color mix (per JDP) and their red looks too orange (per photo sent by Phantom).

So just out of curiosity, I'd like to see what it's supposed to look like.


http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/100_0282-1.jpg

I believe the Regal trim was a NO cost option. I have the original dealer invoice for my Avanti and there is no charge for item # 14-923 TQV (Turquoise vinyl).

Bob Langer
Glenshaw,PA

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/cropped-1.jpg

redbox
10-24-2008, 01:57 PM
Bob, This picture should answer everyones questions about the seat.
Thanks,
Steve


quote:Originally posted by Bob Langer


quote:Originally posted by 63Avanti

I am going to laminate it, along with the original window sheet.
Both in the glove compartment.

quote:Originally posted by redbox

While at Lancaster last month I was showing some of the Avanti owners pictures of mine. Two different people told me the seats were not original because of the perforated inserts. These charts shows that I was right.

I guess I will need to carry the chart with me.







http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/scan0003-6.jpg

Bob Langer
Glenshaw,PA

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/cropped-1.jpg




“Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.” - Red Buttons

'53 Willys Wagon
'56 Golden Hawk
'63 Avanti R2
'02 Boxster

jlmccuan
10-24-2008, 02:45 PM
Here's another color chart with available combinations. If you click on the color combo number it will display sample swatches.

http://www.theavanti.com/combinations.htm

Jim
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/AvantiSignature.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/AvantiSigB.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x98/jlmccuan/Avanti/Logo/RabidSnailSignature.jpg
_________1966 Avanti II RQA 0088______________________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152_______________Rabid Snail Racing