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JDP
09-20-2008, 01:36 AM
OK, I hoped Sid my 64 GT would break the 375 point line to win a first. My best guess was high 380's, maybe a bit more. Thanks to my detailing crew of N8, Jeff Rice, Jeff Bradle and a few others, we got a 399 and best of division ! The judging was actually fun this year, they looked the car over closely, but did not check decal alignment, nor take points off for reproduction exhaust extensions and the like. I lost a point for a paint chip, but they missed one or two more touched up ones they might have caught if they'd stared at every inch of the car.
My congrats to te new "Drivers Club" judging standards. It may get harder as the cars improve, but they were fair to all from what I saw. Lots of firsts in my class.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

Guido
09-20-2008, 05:55 AM
John,

Congratulations! I only had an opportunity to get a couple of pictures, but did see the lower half of Nate under the car once as I passed by. How much will that add to the value on an e-Bay sale?

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/63/663/9/36/86/2567936860097493054TXiheL_th.jpgGuido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful" and real Studebaker horsepower lives

See pictures here: http://community.webshots.com/user/GuidoSalvage

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

bams50
09-20-2008, 05:55 AM
I was wondering how you'd do. The car was truly stunning[:p] Congratulations!

399...... sounds like an excellent selling point;) Is it going on the market now?

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

studefan
09-20-2008, 07:31 AM
John, 399 is great!!!!!

But, I am not surprised. Having crawled all over every inch of that Hawk cleaning it, I can attest to its condition. You took a car that was just a finished shell and made it a perfect specimen top to bottom. It is one incredible car. Congratulations and well deserved.

Jeff Bradel

DEEPNHOCK
09-20-2008, 07:44 AM
Thanks for the mention, but I don't deserve it..
I showed up fashionably late and just handed Nate my 'extra' freebie Holiday Inn Express cup o'coffee.... To keep Nate hyper and jittery..
(more than he normally is[:p])
That was the first time I had met Jeff, and I learned quick to stay out of his way..
(He's as hyper as Nate is[|)])
But being able to direct that kind of enthusiasm onto a nice (really nice) Studebaker is a real experience.
Not being able to bring my yellow pos to the show was bugging me pretty bad, so nitpicking JP's Hawk gave me something to do.
And there was hardly anything to nitpick.
A ton of prep work went into this GT Hawk, and I am glad the efforts paid off.
JP reminds me of Tom Sawyer and painting the fence[:0][:p]
(Great minds think alike, eh Matthew;))
Kudo's JP... Neat car! Congrat's!
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by JDP

<snip>
Thanks to my detailing crew of N8, Jeff Rice, Jeff Bradle and a few others, we got a 399 and best of division ! <snip>


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/1937CEBearfootingArtwithLabelgif-1.jpg http://www.racingstudebakers.com/avatar_01.jpg http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

Bill Pressler
09-20-2008, 07:58 AM
Congratulations John! If that car had the Vinyl Sports Roof it would have been the car I would have ordered new! Love the Jet Green and green interior. 399 is an amazing score.

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1

JDP
09-20-2008, 08:09 AM
I kept Sid just to get over the bad judging experience at Charlotte a few years back and it did that for me. It's too nice a car to store in a working garage even if I could afford to keep it. I'd seldom drive it and it would slowly go down hill. My crew detailed it so well, it'll drop a few points just on the drive home.:)
I have a trade offer for a show winning 56J with factory AC and dual fours, but it's too nice to drive and store too. I'll likely have to sell Sid this year, but don't know what venue I'll use.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

bams50
09-20-2008, 08:14 AM
So did you get that $5 plastic trophy you've told us about?:D

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

Dick Steinkamp
09-20-2008, 10:31 AM
Congrats JP! Post some pictures of the finished car.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Stude-a-mino%20old%20pics/oldpics6asmall.jpg

Roscomacaw
09-20-2008, 12:42 PM
Good show![:p]

Miscreant Studebaker nut in California's central valley.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President two door

JDP
09-20-2008, 01:28 PM
OK, I take back the $5.00 trophy comment, the thing is very big and nice looking.
http://stude.com/Sid/show.jpg

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

JDP
09-20-2008, 01:56 PM
Dick, here are some taken the day after the judging.

http://www.stude.com/Sid/Show/

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

Mark57
09-20-2008, 02:22 PM
Congratulations John! It's nice when all of that elbow grease and sweat pay off. [^]

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar Deluxe
Vancouver Island

Are you planning to attend the NW Overdrive Tour in Parksville, BC
May 23 & 24, 2009?</h5>
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/CandyStoreThumb.jpg

JDP
09-20-2008, 02:26 PM
Can anyone pick up authenticity deduction that was missed that you can see in one picture? (Since fixed)

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

bams50
09-20-2008, 02:41 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

OK, I take back the $5.00 trophy comment, the thing is very big and nice looking.



Ah, you got the $9.00 version!!:D Just kidding, of course- congrats again[^]

(Side note: Keep an eye on the left taillight outer seal- the upper 3 inches had popped out when I walked by. I showed Jeff and yucked it back in).

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

gordr
09-20-2008, 03:07 PM
Congratulations, JP. Looks the "no first GT Hawks" jinx has been laid to rest.

I wish I could have been at the meet, but it wasn't about to be. On the job right now.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

bams50
09-20-2008, 03:17 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50


quote:Originally posted by JDP

OK, I take back the $5.00 trophy comment, the thing is very big and nice looking.



Ah, you got the $9.00 version!!:D Just kidding, of course- congrats again[^]

(Side note: Keep an eye on the left taillight outer seal- the upper 3 inches had popped out when I walked by. I showed Jeff and tucked it back in).

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"






Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

N8N
09-20-2008, 03:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by Guido

John,

Congratulations! I only had an opportunity to get a couple of pictures, but did see the lower half of Nate under the car once as I passed by. How much will that add to the value on an e-Bay sale?



Me having been underneath it? Probably very little :)

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

studefan
09-20-2008, 03:23 PM
Jeff (DEEPNHOCK),

Sorry I didn't spend a bit more time talking to you as we were cleaning John's car on show day. I wasn't sure how much time we would have before the judges would appear so we were pretty focused. Turns out that as the judges grew nearer, we were having trouble finding things to detail.

It was nice meeting you though and I hope to be able to spend more time conversing at a future meet.

And, good catch Bob (bams50) on the taillight seal (would have been 398 if you hadn't caught that).

Jeff B.

bondobilly
09-20-2008, 03:56 PM
Congratulations on breaking the curse. I did not get to see the car except from your photos. Congratulations, but one favor, you can make fun of my Hawk but please don't "dump" on our everyday driver.:D

Without it, things would be very different.

Ellen also says congratulations.

bams50
09-20-2008, 04:13 PM
I'm curious, having never done that before:

When a car is restored, the frame, floors, and all the undercarriage are painted and detailed. So time goes on, the rest of the car is finished, it's driven, etc. So when it comes time to show, the topside detailing is self explanatory; but to prepare for a show, what needs to be done underneath?? Assuming there are no fluid leaks, what under the car gets attention for the show, and how much- do you polish every single item touch up paint, or what? And along those lines, how much and at what do the judges look under the car?

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

Andy R.
09-20-2008, 05:30 PM
Congratulations on 399! Please keep these photos on your site as a reference, even if you do decide to sell it.


quote:Originally posted by JDP

Can anyone pick up authenticity deduction that was missed that you can see in one picture? (Since fixed)

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson


I'll be darned if I can find it...I even looked closely at the cars reflected in that mirror-like finish, thinking it might be a trick question.;)

That said, I'll take a stab with something ridiculous...is it the angle of the driver's side exhaust clamp in photo 19/38?

Andy
62 GT
http://a6.vox.com/6a00cdf7ec2443094f00e398c6501e0004-pi

N8N
09-20-2008, 05:35 PM
Actually you are close to one that wasn't caught; but I've never seen any judge deduct for it (Gary Ash knows what it is)

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

bige
09-20-2008, 05:45 PM
Should the red white and blue emblem on the passenger door show red/white/blue when viewed not blue/white/red?

ErnieR


quote:Originally posted by JDP

Can anyone pick up authenticity deduction that was missed that you can see in one picture? (Since fixed)

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson



http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/CPIC039.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/track.jpg

JDP
09-20-2008, 05:51 PM
You got it Ernie, the badge was backwards.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

Daan
09-20-2008, 06:56 PM
So this one is nicer than one you'd get from a dealer 44 years ago, right? I'd be afraid to drive one this nice, too. It looks beautiful.

http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i44/DansStudes/

JDP
09-20-2008, 07:03 PM
Paint and chrome nicer, maybe, but still not a new car.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

showbizkid
09-20-2008, 07:46 PM
I've never seen a gas tank that nice in my life!!!


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

JDP
09-20-2008, 09:10 PM
It's the little details like the gas tank and chassis detailing and authenticity that add the points. If the judges had been super critical and gave me say a 380-390, then a another first place car would get a second. At least two cars had Sid's paint, chrome and interior or better, but lost maybe a dozen points for authenticity issues like modern battery, wheel colors and the like. Lose a few more for chassis detailing and they would have not have made the first place cut.
A "perfect car" could end up with losing a first just by having a few minor detailing issues. BTW, I could have found 10 points to take off Sid, but I've been looking at the car for a year and only noticed a few flaws after many months, (the emblem just the day of the show) the judges had maybe 15 minutes.
I think the judging crews this year might have given out more 399's then in the past, but the result was a trickle down that gave the guys with minor detailing errors a chance to have fun too. The difference in the judging over the last few years is night and day, I saw a lot more smiling owners.:)



JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

BobPalma
09-20-2008, 09:14 PM
:) Just curious, John: Do you known how many points Mike Myer got with the one-of-two Avanti Maroon '64 R1/Powershift GT? It, too, was awfully nice; I'm glad you guys could both get firsts and not go to a shootout! (Oops, just read Ted's Drags Report thread![:0];)[}:)]) :DBP

JDP
09-20-2008, 09:34 PM
I "think" a 384. Lost points for body color wheels, modern battery, hood latch detailing and minor flaws on the factory seats. If he fixed those minor issues, it would have been a shootout indeed, a beautiful car.:)

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

StudeRich
09-20-2008, 10:42 PM
Very beautiful GT John, congrats! But I have to ask, if they took off points for a "Modern" Battery on Mike's car, what could you do to get the points? I can barely believe that anyone could still have a working 44 year old Studebaker battery, even a dry charged one would be questionable after that many years, and since there are no correct replacements, unless you saved an old case and had it rebuilt, I don't see any way to win that one! As you know, the "almost correct" Willard batteries were last used in '62 or early '63! [:0]


quote:Originally posted by JDP

I "think" a 384. Lost points for body color wheels, modern battery,/Cut/

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

bams50
09-21-2008, 01:06 AM
Still wondering, so I repeat: When a car is restored, the frame, floors, and all the undercarriage are painted and detailed. So time goes on, the rest of the car is finished, it's driven, etc. So when it comes time to show, the topside detailing is self explanatory; but to prepare for a show, what needs to be done underneath?? Assuming there are no fluid leaks, what under the car gets attention for the show, and how much- do you polish every single item touch up paint, or what? And along those lines, how much and at what do the judges look under the car?


Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

StudeRich
09-21-2008, 01:19 AM
Bob: the exhaust system is the number one item they are looking for, welded connections are OUT, turbo or round glass packed type mufflers are OUT, aftermarket straps (rubber "O" ring donuts etc.) OUT! More than 2 in. head and 1 3/4 in. tail pipes are OUT!

Of course if the floor pans are all mud covered on one and brushed clean and rattle canned black on another, there has to be more points. The undercoating should not be brownish, but nice black, also the frame, not rusty. I hope that gives you a start to understanding this! :)

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

JDP
09-21-2008, 10:53 AM
The judging guide simply says maintenance free batteries without the caps are incorrect. I think you could get away with a battery topper. I bought the $250 Willard that is pictured in the factory photo of a R2 Hawk. Since the Studebaker battery was only introduced in late 63,the dealer might well have installed a Willard as a warranty replacement, just as he may have used a Goodyear fan belt rather then a Studebaker belt.

You have to decide if the extra few points for the correct tires`battery and so on are with the extra money to you. I only bit the bullet on Sid because the PO had started a cost is no object restoration that I felt should be respected to the end.



JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

JDP
09-21-2008, 11:16 AM
You have 2 choices with a high point car.

1. Get back from the show, park it in the garage under a cover until the next show.
2. Drive it and lose a few points a year and don't sweat it.


I spent 3 or 4 days detailing Sid before the show, but it took 3 or 4 of us working a few hours to redo it after a only 100 mile drive. I brought a detailing kit with every type of polish,cleaners and the like. I also brought touch up paint in Jet green, wheel color, black, and detail gray.




quote:Originally posted by bams50

I'm curious, having never done that before:

When a car is restored, the frame, floors, and all the undercarriage are painted and detailed. So time goes on, the rest of the car is finished, it's driven, etc. So when it comes time to show, the topside detailing is self explanatory; but to prepare for a show, what needs to be done underneath?? Assuming there are no fluid leaks, what under the car gets attention for the show, and how much- do you polish every single item touch up paint, or what? And along those lines, how much and at what do the judges look under the car?

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"






JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

bams50
09-21-2008, 11:37 AM
Thanks Rich and John.

So, do you clean the entire underside as thoroughly as the top, or just dust it off a little?

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

JDP
09-21-2008, 11:51 AM
I steam clean it first, wire brush, then paint. Prior to the show, wash, wipe down and touch up.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

bams50
09-21-2008, 12:43 PM
OK, thanks, that's what I thought. I wondered if someone got under there with Windex and cloths and a toothbrush, but I've got the picture now- the judges take a look, not white-glove the u-joints;)

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

JDP
09-21-2008, 01:02 PM
Bams I placed a towel at the front and rear to show off my work and keep the judge off the asphalt, but he just peeked under the rocker panel, not a glance at my purty fuel tank, or oil pan.:)

As far as I can tell, a quick glance for general chassis condition is all they cared about, new Q tips needed.:)


JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

Clem64
09-21-2008, 04:13 PM
Thanks John for taking the time to share that fantastic GT with us. Love those green Studes[8D].

Dean Croft
Roseburg,OR

CLEM http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Clem64/Clem64Forum1A.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Clem64/CIMG1894sm.jpg DESEE

barnlark
09-21-2008, 07:14 PM
I had my chassis and nos fuel tank fairly nice as well, but I didn't see anyone get close to crawling under to peek and appreciate the work under there, but I may have missed that. Jim Pepper spent a lot of time under my hood and writing, so I probably lost a few points there. I drove it all summer and cleaned it up as best that I could. It's far from perfect like the Packard Hawk next to me, but I am proud to have been there trying. I haven't heard how anyone did in Division 8 and what points were taken off, or why in that category. No one spoke to me except to ask to roll up my windows and do the safety check. No one asked any questions, or pointed out deductions during the judging. I tried to stay clear and pointed out a few of the rare original items at the outset, but those are of little consequence in division 8. I enjoyed it and got nervous like most folks around me. It was nice to see the different types of people's tastes from the Hawk, the Ute, and my car. Most were interested in one type of model only, it seemed. Wish I had got down to your area a little longer, JP and appreciate your car. There was a lot to soak up for one short afternoon. [8D][^]

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN0753.jpg

BobPalma
09-21-2008, 08:12 PM
quote:Originally posted by barnlark

No one spoke to me except to ask to roll up my windows and do the safety check. No one asked any questions, or pointed out deductions during the judging. There was a lot to soak up for one short afternoon. [8D][^]



:) Dave: You probably realize by now that there would have been no need to discuss anything with you because only authenticity items are discussed with car owners during judging, and there are no authenticity questions or deductions available or taken in Divisions 8 and 9. (Of course, the owner is asked to operate the car or any parts of it, as they did when judging your car.)

'Glad you enjoyed the experience. :DBP

studegary
09-22-2008, 04:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

It's the little details like the gas tank and chassis detailing and authenticity that add the points. If the judges had been super critical and gave me say a 380-390, then a another first place car would get a second. At least two cars had Sid's paint, chrome and interior or better, but lost maybe a dozen points for authenticity issues like modern battery, wheel colors and the like. Lose a few more for chassis detailing and they would have not have made the first place cut.
A "perfect car" could end up with losing a first just by having a few minor detailing issues. BTW, I could have found 10 points to take off Sid, but I've been looking at the car for a year and only noticed a few flaws after many months, (the emblem just the day of the show) the judges had maybe 15 minutes.
I think the judging crews this year might have given out more 399's then in the past, but the result was a trickle down that gave the guys with minor detailing errors a chance to have fun too. The difference in the judging over the last few years is night and day, I saw a lot more smiling owners.:)



JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson



I mentioned the door chevron to you months ago when I noticed it in a picture.
I thought that you were now refering to the hood anti-rattle springs.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

JDP
09-22-2008, 04:17 PM
I forgot about the chevron, but flipped the springs at the show, then flipped the spring again to protect the paint coming home. The chevon swap was easy since the paint was fine underneath. I did get the staples coming through the hood seal flap in the correct direction this time.:)



JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

barnlark
09-22-2008, 09:41 PM
:) Dave: You probably realize by now that there would have been no need to discuss anything with you because only authenticity items are discussed with car owners during judging, and there are no authenticity questions or deductions available or taken in Divisions 8 and 9. (Of course, the owner is asked to operate the car or any parts of it, as they did when judging your car.)

'Glad you enjoyed the experience. :DBP
[/quote]

Being a newbie in div. 8, I didn't understand that. I thought anything glaring that could be fixed next time to avoid point deductions would be pointed out. I still don't know where to look for the judging sheet. Do we all just wait for the mail?

JDP
09-22-2008, 09:46 PM
You need to sign off for authenticity deductions in stock class. Points off`for condition issues are listed on the form.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson