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StudeMichael
09-02-2008, 09:38 PM
This looks like a great 1957 Packard. I am going to guess it will go for around 20K

http://tinyurl.com/5qsdly



1957 Packard Clipper
1958 Golden Hawk
1963 Daytona Convertible
1963 R2 Daytona
1963 R2 GT Hawk
1963 R1 Wagonaire
1963 R4 Avanti
1964 Champ
1966 Cruiser

bams50
09-02-2008, 09:59 PM
I am COMPLETELY SHOCKED AND STUNNED to see that this car isn't 20 minutes from me- 10 minutes from our weekly cruise-in I've been going to for the last 4 years- and I've NEVER SEEN IT!!!![:0]:( I can't believe it[V]

Of course, if anyone is interested in buying it, it would be my pleasure to go and look it over for you!

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

[b]"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

StudeMichael
09-02-2008, 10:00 PM
The seller is a dealer so he could have brought it in local from anywhere.

1957 Packard Clipper
1958 Golden Hawk
1963 Daytona Convertible
1963 R2 Daytona
1963 R2 GT Hawk
1963 R1 Wagonaire
1963 R4 Avanti
1964 Champ
1966 Cruiser

bams50
09-02-2008, 10:13 PM
Even more shocking since I'm a dealer- I would think I'd be aware of it's presence in the area![|)]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

studeclunker
09-02-2008, 10:45 PM
quote:This vehicle is over 50 years old and sold as is. I am happy to assist in shipping anywhere. [u]Payment must be cash or wire transfer only.</u> Vehicle can been seen by appointement in Syracuse NY area. Please call me with any questions anytime Im happy to discuss @ (315) 415 0261. I have over 800 positive feedback so bid with confidence.



Goooorgeous Car![:p][:p][:p][:p]

I bolded a part that would worry me about this transaction... Especially since this car will likely go for twenty to thirty grand. He does claim to have 800 positive sells. Still...

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/december%2006/HPIM0234.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

bams50
09-03-2008, 05:33 AM
It may be he's just had bad experiences with fraudulent money orders in the past, and doesn't want to be bothered. It is a risky thing.

The guy I bought the 4dr. Skytop from wanted the money up front, even though I was coming that week in person. I think he just wanted some money in hand as proof of sincerity before he made plans to meet me, but I felt uncomfortable thinking, why does he want me to send money when I'll be bringing cash in a few days anyway? Sounded fishy to me.

It turned out he was a good guy, but we both had some risk- his was if I was going to show up when promised after he made arrangements to meet me, and mine was whether he'd be there after I drove all that way.

The point is, there will always be risk, and trust, necessary in some amount in any transaction between strangers. With the world what it is today, you have to look to minimize that; and this seller's talking about a large amount of money. Combine that with his maybe lower comfort level and/or previous bad experience, and I don't think that requirement worries me a bit.

Again, in this case, we have someone we know in the area that could mediate and raise a buyer's comfort level (me).

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

studeclunker
09-03-2008, 11:48 AM
I'm sure you're entirely right Bob. Still, there are a lot of sellers out there who... how should I put it? Are somewhat less than trustworthy. However, in this case, I believe the seller is well known (?) and there is, of course, yourself to check up on things.:D Ah well, the whole thing is completely academic for me as money and I are strangers.;)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/december%2006/HPIM0234.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

StudeDave57
09-03-2008, 12:19 PM
I wonder if someone cleaned up that one from Washington~ [?] [?] [?] If so they did an awesome job!!! That car was nice, but needed a bit of work to look this good... ;)


StudeDave '57 [8D]
San Diego, Ca.
San Diego County SDC
www.studebakersandiego.com

'54 Commander Regal 4dr 'Ruby'
'57 Parkview 'Betsy' (she's a 2dr wagon...)
'57 Commander DeLuxe 2dr 'Baby'
'57 Champion Custom 2dr 'Jewel'
'58 Packard sedan 'Cleo'
'65 Cruiser 'Sweet Pea'

Part owner of the one and only
'55 PROTOTYPE panel van

StudeRich
09-03-2008, 01:56 PM
That would be this one Dave, sorry I did not get a very sharp or large pic from the old Seattle area ebay ad.
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa221/studerich/57%20Sedans%20and%20Wagons/57Lilac_White4dr.jpg

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

bams50
09-03-2008, 03:02 PM
Is anyone here interested in bidding on this car? I called the owner, whose name I recognized as the owner of a local cell phone store chain, Universe Cellular. He told me the car is show quality in all respects, including underneath. He invited me to come and see it on Sunday, and he'd even put it up on a lift if I wanted.

The car was owned by a local wealthy collector who owned about 100 cars. He took it and several others to the Kruse auction near here, which is where Kevin bought it. His reason for selling rang true with me- he says he likes driving his cars, and this one is too detailed to feel comfortable driving it. I told him I'd like to take some pictures and get the numbers off it to promote the sale. He's more than willing to let me, and states that it comes with this guarantee: If someone buys it and they don't agree that it is as perfect as he says, they don't pay one dime.

Sounds like a spectacular car; I hope to go see it Sunday.

Oh yeah- his reserve? He didn't say, and I didn't ask...

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

StudeRich
09-03-2008, 05:51 PM
Do let us know, and see what you find Bob! I really think I would sell my rental house to buy that, if it were not for the fact I would take a pretty good hit selling at this time! :(

This is my most favorite "Studebaker"! Never-mind the Packard name, the 1957 Clipper Town Sedan is still the best Studebaker that Studebaker or SP Corp. ever built, in my opinion! [^]

The only problem it ever had other than acceptance when new, was the Supercharger, and with today's technology you could run Red Line Synthetic ATF and change it at the 2000 mile oil change intervals, or go to the centrifugal kick-in Avanti drive setup, and make it live a very long time! [:0]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

acolds
09-03-2008, 06:09 PM
Not to be a nit picker but the car has the wrong carpet and Studebaker Packard didn't use gray velour. But it is a very nice looking car

StudeRich
09-03-2008, 06:20 PM
That is very true Albert, but I don't think I would kick it out of my garage! :D

It also has the wrong material on the door panels, but like 99% of all Studebaker total restorations, not every original material is available, or some people do not know where to search for exact, but as long as it is period correct and approprete, unlike most of them it looks fine. [^]


quote:Originally posted by acolds

Not to be a nit picker but the car has the wrong carpet and Studebaker Packard didn't use gray velour. But it is a very nice looking car

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

studegary
09-03-2008, 08:31 PM
That is a NICE car. I am with Rich in that I feel that '57 Pres. Classics and Packard sedans are about the best riding and driving made by S-P. He is not kidding about a clean chassis. You might mention to him that the engine is a 289, not a "283."

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

bams50
09-03-2008, 08:33 PM
quote:Originally posted by studegary

You might mention to him that the engine is a 289, not a "283."



My guess is he knows, but didn't ralize the typo. But I'll be sure to tell him.

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

studeclunker
09-04-2008, 02:54 AM
They have one of these at Big M's in Williams CA. Three years ago the car had astonishingly PERFECT upholstry. As for now, I couldn't say, as the car was moved out into the yard. The door panels looked... okay. They needed work. If the seats were still good, they could be pulled out of Big M's car, put into this beauty and Voila! The perfect car!:D Or... one could use these seats to drive the thing and switch out to the others for shows.;)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/december%2006/HPIM0234.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

58PackardWagon
09-04-2008, 03:21 AM
I would be very careful on this one. Wrong interior fabric on the seats and doors, wrong carpet and wrong engine color. I wonder what the original specs were for this car in terms of colors.

58 Packard Wgn (Parade Red)
58 Packard Wgn (Park Green)
58 Packard Sdn (Shadowtone Red)
62 Daytona (White)
63 R2 Lark (Super Red)
57 Packard Wagon parts car
57 Packard sedan parts car
58 Packard 2 dr hdtp parts car

bams50
09-04-2008, 04:38 AM
Another case of knowledge available to the benefit of potential buyers in this group.

As Rich said, it certainly doesn't kill the car- it's just good to know so a buyer can factor that into their decision.

Good work, guys!

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

StudeMichael
09-04-2008, 07:28 AM
Hello 58. What colors on the engine are incorrect for a 1957 Clipper engine? The color looks 100% correct to me.

1957 Packard Clipper
1958 Golden Hawk
1963 Daytona Convertible
1963 R2 Daytona
1963 R2 GT Hawk
1963 R1 Wagonaire
1963 R4 Avanti
1964 Champ
1966 Cruiser

tomnoller
09-04-2008, 09:10 AM
Let's all chip in and buy it for BP!!! :-)

Western Washington, USA

BobPalma
09-04-2008, 10:25 AM
quote:Originally posted by tomnoller

Let's all chip in and buy it for BP!!! :-)

Western Washington, USA


:) Good idea, Tom. Thanks!
I can't see if it has a battery hold-down, though.
No problem; if it doesn't, I'll furnish one! :DBP

jnormanh
09-04-2008, 12:30 PM
quote:Originally posted by studeclunker

[font=Comic Sans MS] [quote][size=3]This vehicle is over 50 years old and sold as is. I am happy to assist in shipping anywhere. [u]Payment must be cash or wire transfer only.</u> Vehicle can been seen by appointement in Syracuse NY area. Please call me with any questions anytime Im happy to discuss @ (315) 415 0261. I have over 800 positive feedback so bid with confidence.



Goooorgeous Car![:p][:p][:p][:p]

Every car I've sold, probaby 20 or so, through newspaper ads or Hemmings, the buyer has always paid me either cash or cashier's check. I never asked for that, they just always have.

I'm no expert, so don't whether every detail on this car is correct, but it's hard to believe it's not the best '57 Packard on earth. I'll bet $20 is not nearly enough. If I were in the market, I'd pay more than that. To restore even a #3 car to this level would cost way more than $20.

StudeRich
09-04-2008, 01:17 PM
Quote: "Good idea, Tom." NOT!

Wait a minute Tom, does BP have any posts on here saying he likes '57 Packards or wants one, or even likes this one? I don't want to start sounding like studeclunker but what about me, me, me! [?] :D :D Come on Tom, help a neighbor out here! [V] [:o)]

I do get that Bob likes sedans though, I don't see any Hawks or Avantis in his garage! [:0]


quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


quote:Originally posted by tomnoller

Let's all chip in and buy it for BP!!! :-)
Western Washington, USA
:) Good idea, Tom. Thanks!

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

studegary
09-04-2008, 01:30 PM
quote:Originally posted by jnormanh

[quote]Originally posted by studeclunker
[
I'm no expert, so don't whether every detail on this car is correct, but it's hard to believe it's not the best '57 Packard on earth. I'll bet $20 is not nearly enough. If I were in the market, I'd pay more than that. To restore even a #3 car to this level would cost way more than $20.






First I assume that you mean $20,000 ($20K). The cost to restore a car has little to no bearing on the market value of the car. Some cars can be restored for much less than their finished market value. Other cars can have ten times their finished market value spent to restore them. I do agree with you that it would probably take $10K-$20K to bring a 3 condition '57 Packard up to this car condition, which appears to be about a 2 condition. I am just saying that that fact has nearly no bearing on the marlet value of the car.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

bams50
09-04-2008, 03:22 PM
quote:Originally posted by tomnoller

Let's all chip in and buy it for BP!!! :-)



I have to go with Rich on this one! We love ya, BP, but our good friend Rich is the one that really loves this car!

Now, when that white 64 Wagonaire comes along, that will be Bob's turn[^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

bams50
09-04-2008, 03:47 PM
Regarding the value/price- here's the rest of the story:

Kevin first saw this car at the aforementioned auction a year ago. He thought it was a beauty, so he watched it, but it went out of his budget- it sold that day for $28,000.

The car resurfaced this year at the same auction, as mentioned. He remembered it, and assumed it would sell around what it did the year previous. However, the bidding stalled quickly; he was surprised at how low it was, and threw out a bid for the heck of it, certain the seller wouldn't take that for it. To his surprise, he was the high bidder, and the seller let it go! He was thrilled to get it, and had it delivered to his home. Problem was, upon closer examination, he felt uncomfortable about driving it due to the high quality and condition of the car. He said he's driven it up his road and back, and that was it.

The story rings true to me, since I'd feel the same way. And, the car appears to support the story. I didn't ask his reserve, but based on our conversation I'm guessing it's probably mid to high teens.

It sure appears to be an exceptional car; if anyone's interested and needs someone to check it out for you, I'd be glad to do so. I can't help you on authenticity, but I can evaluate mechanical condition and restoration quality. It'd be cool to see it go to somebody in the Club[8D]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

BobPalma
09-04-2008, 04:17 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50


quote:Originally posted by tomnoller

Let's all chip in and buy it for BP!!! :-)



I have to go with Rich on this one! We love ya, BP, but our good friend Rich is the one that really loves this car!

Now, when that white 64 Wagonaire comes along, that will be Bob's turn[^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews

:( That's OK, Guys; I hadn't verified the battery hold-down anyway! :DBP

Swifster
09-04-2008, 04:27 PM
I'm not a big sedan guy, but that car is beautiful :D.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Mulberry, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/rollingpi.gif http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/01-01-05TheStartingPoint.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/07-17-07FrontClipRemoved.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/04-11-08CoolingFan.jpg

bams50
09-07-2008, 06:33 PM
I did get to go and see this car. I ended up spending a couple hours talking old cars with Kevin Fear, the owner; a great guy, and a real old car lover, like me! He's mostly a Corvair lover (see pics), but enjoys all kinds of old cars. When something catches his eye, he starts looking for one to buy. He has Corvairs, Mercedes, a 57 Chevy, a Hummer, and just today took delivery of a beautiful 66 Toronado that I tried to buy a couple years ago- claimed to be the first Toro off the line (pics in the file). Also has a SWEEET little garage just for working on his toys (see the Toro pics). He's got about 20 other collector cars off site in another warehouse; we were at his gorgeous home.

As for the Packard: It really is a fabulous car! Started right up and ran perfectly. Only leak I saw was a little bit from the supercharger. The condition is as advertised- clearly a carefully-kept, pro frame-off, nut-and-bolt resto. I don't know about correctness, but there was obviously meticulous attention to detail, even underneath. It looks to have been super-solid to start with, no evidence of patching anywhere. He understands the upholstery isn't correct, but it is excellent- as is the entire car. All the chrome and trim looks perfect. The body has maybe 2 tiny flaws that could be touched up, carpet shows very slight fading near edges.

With seats corrected, a little touch-up, and maybe a few small items, this could very well be a 400-point car.

If anyone is interested in bidding, don't hesitate to ask me any questions; I can even go and check anything else you question. And, I'm comfortable with the seller; he's not a dealer, just an enthusiast who can afford nice cars, but is a hands-on guy. I wouldn't be afraid to buy from him. I notice my engine/VIN pics didn't come out well; a call to Kevin can get those.

It's a chance to get a premium car; with a pair of eyes available to act on your behalf, free of charge.

Here's the pictures:

http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/bams50/57%20Packard/

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

StudeDave57
09-07-2008, 06:58 PM
Now that's interesting. The body tag on my '58 Packard reads "58L-Y8 78".
Sorry- I have no picture at this time. (but I'm looking for one!!!)
I wonder why this Packard's looks like this~

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/bams50/57%20Packard/57Packard009.jpg

Did all of '57 Packards look like the one on this car [?] [?] [?]
It's been quite awhile since I've seen one, sorry. [:0] :( [V]

StudeDave '57 [8D]

edited for grammer... [V] [xx(]

barnlark
09-07-2008, 07:02 PM
Wow, what a car! Great work, Bob. Great new contact for you.
I think I can settle this...we all chip in and buy Studerich's rental property and he sends hard cold cash to Bams.. who gets a broker fee of any running car on Kevin's lot. We then send BP a hold down from every year car we have. Everyone goes home happy. :D

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN0362.jpg

barnlark
09-07-2008, 07:04 PM
...what no streamer that said "clipper" or "spcl velour"?

StudeRich
09-08-2008, 04:59 PM
My book shows both '57 and '58 Clipper/Packard Sedans as 57L/58L-Y8 Luxury, I wonder how many '57's were stamped wrong like this one?


quote:Originally posted by StudeDave57

Did all of '57 Packards look like the one on this car [?] [?] [?]
It's been quite awhile since I've seen one, sorry. [:0] :( [V]

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

studegary
09-08-2008, 05:09 PM
The "8" was superfluous since there was only one style/trim level of 1957 (or 1958) Packard sedan. Or in other words, 57L-Y gives the same necessary information as 57L-Y8

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

StudeRich
09-08-2008, 06:43 PM
That is entirely true, however history has shown that it clearly was Studebaker's desire to keep the trim levels known and stay consistent for parts reasons or whatever. Otherwise why would they bother to trim level identify for instance, all those 2 dr. J,K & L Hardtops and Convertibles from '52-'64, when all but 1962 Larks had only one trim level?


quote:Originally posted by studegary

The "8" was superfluous since there was only one style/trim level of 1957 (or 1958) Packard sedan. Or in other words, 57L-Y gives the same necessary information as 57L-Y8

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

StudeDave57
09-08-2008, 06:54 PM
This is all well and good guys, but none of it answers either of my main questions.
Did all of the '57 Packards body tags look like this one? If so, why did S/P change the way it was done in 1958?
Does anyone have body tag pics of either year? The body style doesn't matter.


StudeDave '57 [8D]

bams50
09-08-2008, 06:58 PM
Kevin's revealed his reserve as a BIN, 15 hours left. IMO, the car is worth that all day long. If anyone is interested and has any questions, don't be afraid to ask- Kevin or me.

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

studegary
09-23-2008, 03:43 PM
quote:Originally posted by StudeDave57

[size=4][font=Comic Sans MS]Now that's interesting. The body tag on my '58 Packard reads "58L-Y8 78".
Sorry- I have no picture at this time. (but I'm looking for one!!!)
I wonder why this Packard's looks like this~

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/bams50/57%20Packard/57Packard009.jpg

Did all of '57 Packards look like the one on this car [?] [?] [?]
It's been quite awhile since I've seen one, sorry. [:0] :( [V]

StudeDave [b]edited for grammer... [V] [xx(]


It took me awhile to search this question out. I remembered the question when I was at Lancaster. The 1957 Packard Clipper sedan there had a body tag that read "57L-Y" with body number "942". The Y without the 8 agrees with the car posted.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

raoul5788
09-23-2008, 06:26 PM
Here is the tag from my '57 Clipper wagon.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn163/raoul5788/Clippertag.jpg

Chip
'63 Cruiser daily driver
'57 Packard wagon almost on the road!