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Jimmie
09-01-2008, 09:39 PM
I need opinions, suggestions etc.
My 1950 Champion is now back from the sandblaster and the frame has been done with Chassis Saver as well as the inside roof and bottom of body and all other areas normally not painted.

Two professionals have come to look at it and both have displayed approval with the quality of sandblasting that has been done along with the wash that has been applied. Neither has taken the typical "used car salesman attitude" of trying to find fault and telling me how bad it is.

Again, the following pieces are off the car: hood, four fenders, trunk lid hood, doors, everything is removed from both sides of the fireweall, the dashboard is out and totally stripped down, the seats are out and all upholstering is removed, the windows are out and the motor is out. One can stand behind the trunk and look through the holes where the steering post and the defroster motor were located and right out into open space.

I hope those who will want to be of help will get the picture that what is there to be worked with is a hull with nothing in the way and all other parts are totally stripped of anything that might get in the way.

Now, the plan I have presented to both, is for the painter to have all the parts at once or a few pieces at a time, however he wants to do it. He will replace the rusted areas with new metal, do appropriate prep work. He will paint those places where things will overlap, such as where the fenders bolt to the body, along the sides and underside of the trunk lid, hood, similar parts of door openings, doors,and all other parts and areas normally completed prior to reassembly. When these parts are ready for asembly, I will pick them up and assemble it back in my shop. When this is done, I will take it back to the painter, still without windows,engine and any other parts that might get in the way or make painting it more difficult for the final all over paint job and buffing.

Both painters have talked about what good shape the car is in for its age and the rust holes are all within the outer edges of each area so when the metal is replaced, they will not have to create outside edges, they are all there except for an area of about 2 inches along the bottom of the trunk lid. I see this as a very positive things as both have explained how they can cut away the metal and still have the original lines of the area on which they will be welding.

I have explained that I do not expect to put the car in any exclusive shows, just local Dairy Queen/k-mart saturday evening fun events so I do not expect the car to be flawless. Except for the hood, each piece has some rust holes that will need attention

Now, I know that charges are greatly affected by the location where one is getting the work completed and there are many varibles that enter in. However,I would like some input from those who have taken the time to read this long post, regarding what might seem to be a reasonable amount to pay for what I am wanting done. The paint will be a dark red so this adds on and right now both painters are encouraging me to go with the type that is completed with a clear coat.

Thanks for taking time to read this and for any suggestions you can give me.

Jimmie

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa221/studerich/Jim%20Judy/Picture1.jpg
1950 CHAMPION -ORANGE COUNTY, INDIANA
I'VE SAVED SO MUCH DAYLIGHT THAT THERE'S NO DARK TO SLEEP IN ANYMORE!

sweetolbob
09-01-2008, 09:57 PM
I can't comment on exact cost, as I'm doing mine myself, but be sure to have the parts painted at the same time. Too much chance of color differences. Prepainting the hidden areas prior to painting is the only way to go, and then assemble and paint. The base coat-clear coat systems are great unless you are looking for an original restoration, which you say you are not. Be sure to ask the painters for references on previous jobs. The reason I'm doing mine is that the folks that do good work at reasonable prices in my area are not consistent in their quality and the good painter's want more than I've invested in the total build. I've painted about eight vehicles and feel I can do driver quality but in your case be sure you are comfortable with the quality of the folks you pay. My guess is $4-6k, at a minimum, for a reasonable job with moderate body work and quality. At $60-100/hr it adds up fast, I'm doing the final sanding on mine and I'd forgotten the amount of sanding and respraying necessary to obtain the smoothness required for the final finish.

Jimmie
09-01-2008, 10:14 PM
I paid $2600 for the car in rough condition because I had owned it before and had it looking pretty nice-it was really rough when I got it back. I have paid over $1600 getting the sandblasting completed and the Chassis Saver put on. I have invested around $1500 in new rubber etc with Studebaker international and $400 getting the gas tank restored so I have a lot invested so far. I am a professional upholsterer so the interior will not be too costly as I will do it all myself. Of course I will need tires. The motor seems to run good but not sure what the overdrive will need. Thanks for your comments, they will be helpful.


Jimmie
quote:Originally posted by sweetolbob

I can't comment on exact cost, as I'm doing mine myself, but be sure to have the parts painted at the same time. Too much chance of color differences. Prepainting the hidden areas prior to painting is the only way to go, and then assemble and paint. The base coat-clear coat systems are great unless you are looking for an original restoration, which you say you are not. Be sure to ask the painters for references on previous jobs. The reason I'm doing mine is that the folks that do good work at reasonable prices in my area are not consistent in their quality and the good painter's want more than I've invested in the total build. I've painted about eight vehicles and feel I can do driver quality but in your case be sure you are comfortable with the quality of the folks you pay. My guess is $4-6k for a reasonable job with moderate body work and quality. At $60-100/hr it adds up fast, I'm doing the final sanding on mine and I'd forgotten the amount of sanding and respraying necessary to obtain the smoothness required for the final finish.


http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa221/studerich/Jim%20Judy/Picture1.jpg
1950 CHAMPION -ORANGE COUNTY, INDIANA
I'VE SAVED SO MUCH DAYLIGHT THAT THERE'S NO DARK TO SLEEP IN ANYMORE!

bams50
09-01-2008, 10:18 PM
You're right- there are many variables. One is local rates. But the biggest is condition.

Speaking from 20 years' experience, there is no way I could give you any kind of estimate without seeing the vehicle in person. This is because the extent of rust cannot be estimated without hands-on examination; it's hard to gauge the severity without an untrained eye.

You're already on the best path: get as many estimates as you can; take the estimates and factor in reputation, time-frame promised, facility, and your feeling for the estimator; realize that the cheapest may not be the best overall deal, then make your choice.

Keep in mind- depending on condition, you may well run into a longer wait, and/or more cost as the job progresses. Probably the most important factor, even above cost, is the dependability of the shop. We frequently hear horror stories of jobs promised in X months running into YEARS. Make a written contract spelling out every detail including time frame, and what will happen if the agreed-upon terms are not met. Also, never pay the bill up front. Agree to X amount down, X amount at X point in time, and make sure a good chunk isn't due until the job is completed.

This is admittedly a lot, and I'm not trying to scare you- just trying to help you avoid some all-too-common pitfalls.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

sweetolbob
09-01-2008, 10:37 PM
Well said Bob (bams50), I believe that the painters have a good idea of the degree of difficulty because of the sandblasting, but at this point, I'm guessing Jimmie has to decide he's doing it for love not profit. It's certainly not inexpensive to put 'em back on the road. O'well, there's always flat black.

Dick Steinkamp
09-01-2008, 10:57 PM
Jimmie,
Since you are getting quotes from (seemingly) honest and qualified body men, I would guess you will know in short order how much the job will be.

I have prepped the ute I am working on about as you describe. I do all the disassembly and assembly and any "grunt" work. The body guy will have about 400 hours into this paint job. NO rust repair needed. Not much metal work needed (it was pretty straight) It will be a VERY nice paint job...but at even half that amount of hours for a driver quality job and even at $50/hour (low), I'd be surprised if you get away with much under $10k.

That's the LABOR part. Materials (sandpaper, masking materials, sealer, primer, color, clear, reducers, hardners, filler, etc. etc.) will run another $1,500 or so.

Like Bams said...keep getting estimates and talking to people.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/Stude-a-mino%20old%20pics/oldpics6asmall.jpg

JDP
09-01-2008, 11:51 PM
I have a friend doing a car right now. He stripped all the old paint and epoxy primed the car. The shop will take out any little door dings and the like, block sand and clear coat/color coat. He about 8K in with just te base coat done, maybe 10K out the door. That's a show job though, I've paid little as 3K for a "factory" job without block sanding out every factory wave.`

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

Allan Songer
09-02-2008, 12:20 AM
The "decent" work around here for a rust free car that's not beat to death starts at about $4000. We paid almost $6000 to paint my wife's '55 pickup and it's NOT a perfect "show" paint job, but it's really, REALLY nice and certainly better than ANY factory Studebaker paint.

You have to remember that ON TOP of the labor, a really good job will set the shop back at LEAST $750 in materials!

madmike
09-02-2008, 07:03 AM
Jimmie, I hope that the common concensus of this reply has not caught you by surprise.

My 53 starliner was quoted at 7500.00 for paint and bodywork based on a straight, stripped body,and required no rust repair.Fortunately, I am capable enough to tackle the job myself.

My own piece of advice is, do not let the "friend of a friend who's second cousin to a guy who used to own a body shop, that stayed in a Holiday inn last night that's not an actual painter, but has played one on TV " Paint your car as an alternative.

I used the above guy three times in the past, and in each case, I've gotten screwed (you'd think I'd learn by the 2nd time)

Over the past 20 years, I've used everything from the guy above, to those "paint your car in a day" places to learning to do it myself.
While the one day places can spray a shiny coat of paint, it's generally inferior quality paint, barely applied and the bodywork will be pretty wavy.

Bottom line is, Unless you can control the outcome of the job, (through sweat equity, or your hard earned dollar), in every case it all boils down to you get what you pay (or don't pay) for.


Don't talk about what you are going to do,... talk about what you have DONE.

sweetolbob
09-02-2008, 10:57 AM
Jimmie, What you are running into is the same situation I found many years back. You said you did upholstery, which means you are good with your hands. What you might consider is buying a decent MIG welder, compressor and spray gun, probably under $1200. It can be a quick learn if you read up on the topics and talk to the folks that are good at it. My brother-in-law was a welder and my neighbor was a painter. They shared their expertise and practice, practice, practice. There is great satisfaction when you roll the finished product out and people tell you how nice it looks.

ST2DE5
09-02-2008, 06:00 PM
Hey Jimmie. Back in 1985 I enrolled in a Paint And Body class at our local Tech. College. Done most of the body work there and painted it there. They have one of the best paint booths around. And the instructor is right with you while you paint. I used Dupont Centri. And believe it or not it is still on the car. But with 75,000 miles it's time to do it again.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/51stude/OzarkTtrailLogoSmall.jpg
7G-Q1 49 2R12 10G-F5 56B-D4 56B-F2
As soon as you find a product you like they will stop making it.

Jimmie
09-02-2008, 09:58 PM
Thanks for your comments and encouragement. I have been considering doing just what you suggested.

Also, I have seen two different cars which have been restored by a young bodyman in a neighboring town. He was first recommended to me by a man who used to be his boss in another shop. His work looks straight and the painting looks good. His estimate is $3900 for the body work and painting. I will be doing all the assemblying, and all undercoqating of fenders, he will just be doing the metal work and painting. I am really leaning toward going with him. I hope to talk to him some more tomorrow and would appreciate anyone's suggeations as to questions I should ask and particular things that I should be sure to make clear.

I gave him a printed list of things that I wanted to be sure he understood and he seemed to welcome it.

1. Kind of primer and paint to be used.

2. Thickness of filler.

3. Kind of filler to be used and my concerns about moisture penetration.

4. Five wheels to be painted a different color.

5. All the rusted areas are to be cut out and new metal welded in.

6. List of all the parts to be painted to match the color of the car that would usually be painted black.

7. A ?reasonable? effort should be made to keep overspray off the running gears(frame, springs, etc.) since they have a nice coat of Chassis Saver on them already.

8. I am to be kept abreast as to the kind of primer, paint, etc. that he will be using. He explained that he needed to know what kind of "wash" had been put on it so his paint rep would know what kind of primer he should use. He gets his paint supplies through a parts chain called NAPA.

Suggestions and prayers are requested,

Jimmie



quote:Originally posted by sweetolbob

Jimmie, What you are running into is the same situation I found many years back. You said you did upholstery, which means you are good with your hands. What you might consider is buying a decent MIG welder, compressor and spray gun, probably under $1200. It can be a quick learn if you read up on the topics and talk to the folks that are good at it. My brother-in-law was a welder and my neighbor was a painter. They shared their expertise and practice, practice, practice. There is great satisfaction when you roll the finished product out and people tell you how nice it looks.


http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa221/studerich/Jim%20Judy/Picture1.jpg
1950 CHAMPION -ORANGE COUNTY, INDIANA
I'VE SAVED SO MUCH DAYLIGHT THAT THERE'S NO DARK TO SLEEP IN ANYMORE!

bams50
09-02-2008, 10:18 PM
You forgot one of the most important- TIME FRAME.

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

Jimmie
09-02-2008, 10:27 PM
Although not on the list, we did talk about it. Thanks for reminding me, I will put it on the final list.

Jimmie



quote:Originally posted by bams50

You forgot one of the most important- TIME FRAME.

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"






http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa221/studerich/Jim%20Judy/Picture1.jpg
1950 CHAMPION -ORANGE COUNTY, INDIANA
I'VE SAVED SO MUCH DAYLIGHT THAT THERE'S NO DARK TO SLEEP IN ANYMORE!

52ragtop
09-02-2008, 11:03 PM
As long as the color is NOT a metallic, why not paint the parts off the car and assemble it as they are painted? Body shell first, then rear fenders, deck lid,doors, front fenders, hood etc.
Yes, it takes a lot more time to assemble, but the finished product is worth it. be sure to fit everything first, then disassemble and take it to the shop.
NAPA selss Sherwin Williams paint. If that's the way you going, use THEIR products from the etch primer right up through the clear coat.

You will have at least 2K in quality materials! plus the techs time. A lot of restoration shops (or shopd period) would do a time and material charge. But, without seeing what you have, I would not guess what you'd spend! But as others have said, 3-10K easily for a nice job that should last.


Jim