Studebaker & Edsel Foundering on the SAME Word?

[BobPalma]

The October 2008 Hemmings Classic Car arrived today with a big feature on Edsel. Shown on Page 17 is a period 1959 Edsel print advertisement, saying the 1959 Edsel, "Makes History by Making Sense!"

Omigosh! Wasn't the 1965 Studebaker "The Common-Sense Car?"

And what happened the very next model year to each make? Each was discontinued before the model year had run out!

Well, so much for sensibility in the automotive marketplace...it's never played well and probably never will! BP

[JBOYLE]

If people had sense, we wouldn't have cars. We'd all take the bus/mass transit.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

[Warren Webb]

If memory is correct, Edsel was cancelled in November 59. At least Studebaker made it to March, 1966, but yes, there is a sameness to the two ads.

60 Lark convertible
61 Champ
62 Daytona convertible
63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
63 Avanti (2)
66 Daytona Sport Sedan

[Mark57]

Bob, I am thinking that you have way too much time on your hands to be conducting this level of analysis. [}]

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar Deluxe
Vancouver Island

Are you planning to attend the NW Overdrive Tour in Parksville, BC
May 23 & 24, 2009?</h5>

[bams50]

quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

sensibility in the automotive marketplace...it's never played well and probably never will! BP

Very true. For almost every buyer, a car has to strike a chord on some level to make them open the checkbook. Even those who think of cars as a necessary evil and think they're buying strictly on practical reasons are swayed by something.

I think the Edsel just didn't make sense to people- You had Ford, then Merc a little upscale if you wanted. Edsel was just a weird-looking Ford that didn't fill any market niche. I've always thought they were trying to look innovative and progressive, but came off bizarre[B)] Today, of course, that weirdness is an attraction to collectors. I especially like the rear treatment of the wagons, where thet took a good-looking stamping and added an odd fin/light arrangement to try to differentiate the Edsel. The best was the last- the 60 Ford's cool flat wings assaulted by those ridiculous upright taillights cobbled on! Gooo-fee!

It seems that for Stude, by 1965 none of the other slogans applied- wrong size; very old, stodgy styling; no exciting all-new model for a flagship; and impending orphan status left them with almost nothing All they could think up was "The Common-Sense Car"... and almost nobody wants to hear that[xx(]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

[Scott]

Studebaker should have used the slogan "The uncommon sense car!"

I still feel that by appealing to common sense they might as well have called it "the boring car".

[BobPalma]

quote:Originally posted by Mark57

Bob, I am thinking that you have way too much time on your hands to be conducting this level of analysis. [}]

[h5][navy]Mark
'57 Transtar Deluxe
Vancouver Island

Believe it or not, Mark; I made that connection just as quickly as I read the ad in the Hemmings Classic Car article. Actual time elapsed: Read ad, analyze, walk over to computer, make post: Maybe 6 minutes![:0][^]

(Actually, if the truth be known, I was more put off by their overall theme that the Edsel was "ahead of its time." Baloney. If anything, it's time had already passed; the market for which it was intended was much stronger in 1956 and 1957 than it would ever be for years after the Edsel was introduced!) BP

[bams50]

Right- but they really couldn't go with "The Exciting Car"... so they went with all they had left. I guess they probably didn't think it would work either; they were jusy out of options[V]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

[BobPalma]

quote:Originally posted by bams50

Very true. For almost every buyer, a car has to strike a chord on some level to make them open the checkbook. Even those who think of cars as a necessary evil and think they're buying strictly on practical reasons are swayed by something.

I think the Edsel just didn't make sense to people- You had Ford, then Merc a little upscale if you wanted. Edsel was just a weird-looking Ford that didn't fill any market niche. I've always thought they were trying to look innovative and progressive, but came off bizarre[B)] Today, of course, that weirdness is an attraction to collectors. I especially like the rear treatment of the wagons, where thet took a good-looking stamping and added an odd fin/light arrangement to try to differentiate the Edsel. The best was the last- the 60 Ford's cool flat wings assaulted by those ridiculous upright taillights cobbled on! Gooo-fee!

It seems that for Stude, by 1965 none of the other slogans applied- wrong size; very old, stodgy styling; no exciting all-new model for a flagship; and impending orphan status left them with almost nothing All they could think up was "The Common-Sense Car"... and almost nobody wants to hear that[xx(]

Robert (Bob) Andrews

All true, Bob.

Did you read Stu Chapman's thoughts on "The Common-Sense Car" theme in the June 2008 Turning Wheels, at the bottom of Page 17? Insightful, I thought.

(I always did think Stu had a firm grip on what was going on[}], even if there was little he could do about it.) BP

[8E45E]

quote:Originally posted by BobPalma
If anything, it's time had already passed; the market for which it was intended was much stronger in 1956 and 1957 than it would ever be for years after the Edsel was introduced!)[/i] BP

You mean like the market today, vs. a year or two ago for the new Dodge Challenger??[B)]

Craig

[BobPalma]

quote:Originally posted by 8E45E

You mean like the market today, vs. a year or two ago for the new Dodge Challenger??[B)]

Craig

[:0] OUCH! You're cruel, Craig! (Actually, the economy probably won't impact the intial year's run of those Challengers. It will be the second and subsequent years that will suffer. The pool of guys willing to pay list for the small number built this year is still big enough to absorb all the 2008s at sticker or better....but watch out down the road!) BP

[8E45E]

quote:Originally posted by BobPalma
. It will be the second and subsequent years that will suffer. The pool of guys willing to pay list for the small number built this year is still big enough to absorb all the 2008s at sticker or better....but watch out down the road!) [/i] BP

A repeat of the two-seat Thunderbirds a few years ago? Remember when Ford made the owners sign a guaratee in that they wouldn't sell them immediately, but in the final years, Ford couldn't give them away?? I hope the same scenario doesn't happen with the new Challenger, though.

Craig

[bams50]

quote:Originally posted by 8E45E


A repeat of the two-seat Thunderbirds a few years ago? Remember when Ford made the owners sign a guaratee in that they wouldn't sell them immediately

I never knew that! I thought about one- drove one new. I was disappointed in the lack of power, and the ride was a little firm for me. I never buy new, because this one- like all the others- lost some of it's appeal after they were around for awhile[|)] I'd still buy one if the price would allow me to drive it awhile and still get my money back out

I feel the same about the Prowler, and Chevy's SSR.

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

[BobPalma]

quote:Originally posted by 8E45E
A repeat of the two-seat Thunderbirds a few years ago? Remember when Ford made the owners sign a guaratee in that they wouldn't sell them immediately, but in the final years, Ford couldn't give them away?? I hope the same scenario doesn't happen with the new Challenger, though.

Craig

To some extent, yes, but there are two main differences to blunt the effect:

1. The retro-styled 2-passenger Thunderbird wasn't retro enough. It just couldn't sustain the appeal of the original because, well, it looked pretty lame when compared with an original. Ford all but admitted that (not retro enough) somewhere, but I can't remember where I read the article.

2. Chrysler will have the Challenger available well under $30,000 next year with a V-6 engine; good marketing. Not as good as the retro-Mustang with units under $20,000, but a whole lot better than the two-place retro Thunderbird flops that were always pushing $40,000, and even that was five years ago.

So, overall, I think the new Challenger's popularity will ultimately fall somewhere between the wildy-successful retro Mustang and the flop that was the retro 2-place Thuderbird, but much closer to the Mustang in unit sales and acceptance.

The new Challenger will prove to be a good idea; just not as good an idea today as it might have been had it been on the market two years ago as it is. BP

[50Champ]

quote:If memory is correct, Edsel was cancelled in November 59.

You are correct. They made just over 3000 1960 models before stopping production at the Edsel plant in Louisville that month. They only made 76 1960 convertibles so if you ever find one in a barn for a reasonable price buy it because they're worth a lot. I've owned five Edsels so I guess I have a thing for orphan cars. They say there were several reasons for the Edsel's fast demise. It was introduced in September 1957 during a recession, a lot of people didn't like the name Edsel (which was the first name of Henry Ford's only son), the "Olds sucking a lemon" front end didn't appeal to some, the Teletouch push button auto trans in the steering wheel hub malfunctioned frequently, etc. Ford supposedly lost a couple of hundred million dollars on the Edsel, and that was in 1950s dollars....



1950 Champion 2 Dr. Sedan