700R4 troubles, woe is me...

[bige]

I began the process of removing the 700R4 from the Avanti today. This will be the 6th time I've taken a transmission out of this car. I bought this unit from BowTie Overdrives. Used it for a couple of years but never felt that converter lock. Finally convinced it wasn't working I took it to a local trans shop that is owned by a fellow old car enthusiast.

When the converter doesn't lock it burns up the 3-4 clutches and so after about 1,000 miles the trans gave out. He rebuilt it last year at this time it lasted about 500 miles. He made good on his warranty and this time I lost 2nd gear in less than 200 miles.

The real killer is that I had him build a 2004R for me 2 years ago that was destined for my El Camino. I haven't got to the El Camino yet so the trans is in the garage. I'm so leery of his work that I just ordered a TCI 2004R instead of using the trans I have.

It's easier to pull the trans out of the El Camino than it is to get it out of the Avanti so I'll take my chances with his 2004R in the Elky when the time comes.

Meanwhile, I'm excited to feel the difference between the two transmissions. When the trans was working properly that low first gear was a blast around town but having experienced nicely spaced gears in my daily drivers ( 5 speed automatics ) the 2004R got the nod in this round of the transmission follies.

Wish me luck, I want to be able to take the Avanti to Lancaster.
ErnieR

[41 Frank]

Ernie make sure the TV cable is adjusted properly or you will burn them up in just a few miles. Just a thought from a guy that runs a 200 4R in a Stude.

[PackardV8]

Hi, Ernie,

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Guess I have been lucky. However, I bought the BTO linkage kit, their pressure gauge kit and instructions. Did you adjust both the TV cable and the line pressure?

FWIW, if I ever did it again, I'd go with the 200-4R, also.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

[bige]

My "professional" set up the TV cable last two times. I have the adapter on the carb and a Lokar cable. The trans has been apart too many times for my tastes and I just think it's time to start anew. Aside from that I'm sure the shop just doesn't want to deal with the Avanti anymore and they have convinced themselves it will never be right and aren't looking very hard to find the real problem.

The switch to the 200 is the only reason I'm not really super angry over the whole thing.

ErnieR

[oldcarfart]

I use the TCI constant pressure valve bodies ($270.00) to eliminate this issue and if using an Edelbrock carb make sure you have correct cable adapter, the clutches burn from pressure issues, the valve body is a Godsend to street rodders.

[bige]

I thought about that Valve Body. I may put one in for insurance. Any drawbracks?

I do have the adapter on the Edelbrock and have been using it for years. I'm sure there's a pressure problem somewhere but the TV has been set up visually and with pressure gages.

Thanks for the input on the valve body..

ErnieR

[Mike Van Veghten]

For what it's worth, I've also switched to a 200-4R for my Conestoga. Scott McClay of McClay Engineering (Calif.) did mine. Mine's also got a trans. brake in it for those clutch like starts.
Scott builds T-200's (3 speed version) for drag racing. He's got them in 900hp cars. The 200-4R is much the same trans., mostly just has the additional stuff for fourth gear. If your shop (or TCI) did it right, and your TV cable is adjusted right...you should be very happy.
You just won't have the neck snapping first gear.
But...on the good side...you won't have to twist the hell out of it to keep second gear in the power band!

Good luck.

Mike

[DEEPNHOCK]

I think the answer to the dreaded TV cable is here:
TCI p/n# 376020

http://www.tciauto.com/WhatsNew/

http://www.tciauto.com/WhatsNew/Files/TCI700R4ConstantPressureValveBody.pdf

http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

[bige]

I ordered one right after I read "oldcarfart's" post.

Thanks all

[royvaldez]

Hello everyone. I have been looking for a 200-R4 for my 1951 Commander. 1st question: Do I have to run 12 Volts in my car? My car is currently set up for 6 volts. 2. Anyone near Sacramento, Ca who has already done such a task. Need to pick brain.

[bige]

The lock-up function is through an electric solenoid. Other than that there are no electronics in the trans. I wonder if 6 volts would be enough to power the solenoid?
ErnieR

[41 Frank]

Calling "Bowtie Overdrives" would be an option. (760) 947-5240

quote:Originally posted by bige

The lock-up function is through an electric solenoid. Other than that there are no electronics in the trans. I wonder if 6 volts would be enough to power the solenoid?
ErnieR

[sbca96]

I put 20k miles on my '60 Hawk with a used 700R4, I would recommend
to anyone to go this route. As long as you stick with the later, '88
and up 700's they are virtually bullet proof. Why you are having so
much trouble with them is beyond me, I would suggest a new place to do
your trans work. As far as they giving up on solving the problem and
blaming the car, thats todays mentality regardless of whether the car
came with a certain part or not. Most your trans shops will rather do
a complete rebuild each time you bring it in for a "problem" than do a
trouble shooting routine. Its pretty sad really. We had a 36k mile
4L60E stop shifting into 3rd and 4th. It was solid shifting into 1st
and second, just suddenly "lost" 3rd and 4th, didnt even TRY to shift.
After a Google search I found it could be the 3rd gear accumulator
check valve, the trans shop just told me it needed a rebuild. I got a
lot of info together and still - nope. It ended up "fixing" itself in
a hard take off, which points to the check ball being stuck as I said.
I put some Lucas oil into it, and it worked fine for the last 20k until
we got forced off the freeway by that SUV in March.

The point is, if you can find a GOOD shop - let me know where!

Those considering the 200-4R, make sure you use these behind straight
6 cars, OR 2 barrel 259s, unless you buy a "built" unit from one of
the many shops offering them. The factory 200's are basically V6 units
and not up to the challenge behind a torquey Stude V8. Unless you can
get your hands on a Buick Regal GN or GNX trans, or one of the Turbo
Regals, be careful of what you spend your money on. Do research, there
are many giving the perception that the 200 is a direct 700 replacement
and thats not the case. Also the 200 weighs just a hair under the 700
so dont be fooled by those claiming its lighter. The gear spread seems
to be the only thing that might be better, but a factory used 700 can
be bolted right onto your adapter without any upgrades, I personally
wouldnt use a factory used 200 in anything. If you shop around you can
find 700's for less than 500, but a built 200 will be 1250 or more.

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

[JRoberts]

quote:Originally posted by sbca96

I put 20k miles on my '60 Hawk with a used 700R4, I would recommend
to anyone to go this route. As long as you stick with the later, '88
and up 700's they are virtually bullet proof. Why you are having so
much trouble with them is beyond me, I would suggest a new place to do
your trans work. As far as they giving up on solving the problem and
blaming the car, thats todays mentality regardless of whether the car
came with a certain part or not. Most your trans shops will rather do
a complete rebuild each time you bring it in for a "problem" than do a
trouble shooting routine. Its pretty sad really. We had a 36k mile
4L60E stop shifting into 3rd and 4th. It was solid shifting into 1st
and second, just suddenly "lost" 3rd and 4th, didnt even TRY to shift.
After a Google search I found it could be the 3rd gear accumulator
check valve, the trans shop just told me it needed a rebuild. I got a
lot of info together and still - nope. It ended up "fixing" itself in
a hard take off, which points to the check ball being stuck as I said.
I put some Lucas oil into it, and it worked fine for the last 20k until
we got forced off the freeway by that SUV in March.

The point is, if you can find a GOOD shop - let me know where!

Those considering the 200-4R, make sure you use these behind straight
6 cars, OR 2 barrel 259s, unless you buy a "built" unit from one of
the many shops offering them. The factory 200's are basically V6 units
and not up to the challenge behind a torquey Stude V8. Unless you can
get your hands on a Buick Regal GN or GNX trans, or one of the Turbo
Regals, be careful of what you spend your money on. Do research, there
are many giving the perception that the 200 is a direct 700 replacement
and thats not the case. Also the 200 weighs just a hair under the 700
so dont be fooled by those claiming its lighter. The gear spread seems
to be the only thing that might be better, but a factory used 700 can
be bolted right onto your adapter without any upgrades, I personally
wouldnt use a factory used 200 in anything. If you shop around you can
find 700's for less than 500, but a built 200 will be 1250 or more.

Tom

I purchased a 305 V8 and the 200r4 that came with it when it was taken out of an '87 Avanti. The tranny and engine both ran fine in the Avanti, the owner just happened to want a built 327 and a 5 speed standard tranny for the car. The combo will be put into my '65 Cruiser. The 305 will be temporary until the original 283 is rebuilt and given a slight bit of extra muscle. It will never be a race car, but hopefully a dependable daily driver and interstate traveler. Should this combo be a problem?


Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

[bige]

Actually should be very nice in the Cruiser. The issue that constantly surfaces with the trans swap is the fitment and adjustment of the TV cable when mated to a carb other than a Quadrajet that has linkage specifically designed for the 200's TV cable. When the 283 goes back in you too will have to deal with the TV cable if you're not using the Quadrajet Carb from the 305. If that is the case than there are adapter kits that can get you the right adjustment.

You will also need to convert the trans to lock up without the computer, there's a kit for that also.