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  • Future of r2 cars?

    I was in the garage working on the Daytona and lifted the sheet on the r2 engine waiting to go in. I started wondering: with the price of gas rising so much, what will happen to all the r2 cars currently drivable? I've never had one, but I've heard many times on this forum about the poor gas mileage, and the need to run premium fuel.

    We know all high-performance cars of all brands are affected; but I'm wondering about Studebaker r1s and r2s specifically. I've come to understand that, more than any other brand I've seen, many Studebaker owners are proud of being cheapskates; so I'm wondering what r2 CASOs will do in light of the high-buck premium/racing fuel needs these engines have?

    When I was a kid working in my father's gas station during the oil embargo in the early 70s, Dad had customers that had muscle-cars that freaked out about fuel costs. Some traded off those cars and took a loss, but Dad actually had a few that paid to have the Big Block engines yanked and replaced with smaller engines! I remember a 396 Chevelle switched to a 283, and a Big Block Ford Fairlane switched to a 289

    So, what do you think will be the fate of most r2 cars- never or rarely driven, sold off, or put on blocks indefinitely? If you have one, and if gas keeps climbing, what are you going to do? And- what effect do you think this will have on the value of r2 cars?



    Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
    Parish, central NY 13131

    "Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

    "With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that happiness is a thing called Larking!"




  • #2
    R2 Avanti is the best thing to have Super Power with the charger hooked up extra 5 M.P.G. with the belts off.

    gh

    Comment


    • #3
      In most cases, I think it's a moot point. Not that many even today get driven more than maybe a thousand miles a year...and then not very hard.

      I remember at the Omaha and South Bend International meets, I talked to several R owners about coming out to the track and making a few passes. VERY few were interested.

      I know it's a DRIVERS' club, but most R cars (and a lot of other Studebakers) have turned into coffee table books. I'm not saying that's a bad thing...it's a valid way to enjoy the hobby. I'm just saying the increasing price of gas most likely won't impact the value of high performance Studes.


      Dick Steinkamp
      Bellingham, WA

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, they already survived the '70's...

        Scott Rodgers
        Los Angeles
        SDC Member since 1989
        '60 Lark HT
        '63 Wagonaire
        Scott Rodgers
        Los Angeles
        SDC Member since 1989
        \'60 Lark HT
        \'63 Wagonaire
        \'66 Frankenbaker

        Comment


        • #5
          I drove my R1 Champ pickup two days ago and plan to drive it to a meet this weekend. (Unless the 103 degree predicted temp on Saturday persuades me otherwise.) I don't drive the Champ everyday, but it does not set continuously in my garage either. For a daily driver I would like to have decent gas mileage, but the Champ is special and therefore I cannot forsee getting rid of it, at least not because of gas costs.

          Joe Roberts
          '61 R1 Champ
          '65 Cruiser
          Editor of "The Down Easterner"
          Eastern North Carolina Chapter
          Joe Roberts
          '61 R1 Champ
          '65 Cruiser
          Eastern North Carolina Chapter

          Comment


          • #6
            quote:Originally posted by bams50

            I was in the garage working on the Daytona and lifted the sheet on the r2 engine waiting to go in. I started wondering: with the price of gas rising so much, what will happen to all the r2 cars currently drivable? I've never had one, but I've heard many times on this forum about the poor gas mileage, and the need to run premium fuel....
            I drove my '64 Avanti R-2 6,000 miles on our Potomac Chapter Route 66 Trip. It was a Powershift, engine bored .060 with slightly higher compression than stock. I bought only unleaded regular gasoline for the entire trip- averaged 18.65 mpg calculated on a speedometer than was only one percent off true. Only pinging was when i REALLY got on it a couple time . Granted, it did have a 3.07 rear end.


            [img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/R-4.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64L.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64P.jpg[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/53K.jpg[/img=right]Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia
            '53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
            '64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
            '64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
            Museum R-4 engine
            1962 Gravely Model L (Studebaker-Packard serial plate)
            1972 Gravely Model 430 (Studebaker name plate, Studebaker Onan engine)
            Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia.
            '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Avanti R-1, Museum R-4 engine, '72 Gravely Model 430 with Onan engine

            Comment


            • #7
              It won't affect R2 cars at all, Bob; either the market for them or how frequently (or infrequently) they are used. How many R2 cars do you suppose are driven in regular daily service where fuel cost and availability is a significant factor? Probably none at all.

              Of the 2 engines, it might have an ever-so-slight impact on R1s. There are probably a handful of R1s used more-or-less daily, mostly to power air-conditioned cars. R1s really need higher-octane gas for routine service than do R2s...unless, of course, one frequently stands on an R2 to enjoy the excitement.

              It's my opinion that the CASO moniker really doesn't apply to high-dollar, R-engined cars, Bob...with the possible exception of when the shrewd, died-in-the-wool Studebaker enthusiast is negotiating the purchase of one. But in today's market, many non-Studebaker enthusiasts are stepping up to the collectability of R1 and R2 Larks and Hawks. This will force a CASO who's "thinking about" a certain R-engined Lark or Hawk to think faster or risk losing the car to a non-Stude enthusiast who just wants a cool, fast, unique, high-performance collector car from the 1960s....because [u]that</u> they are! BP
              We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

              G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Their fate will remain the same as it is today -- no change. R1s may require premium fuel but R2s do not and in an R2 if you avoid stop light drags, your mileage will be very similar to any Studebaker V8 with same transmission and rear gears.

                Besides very few people drive their Studebakers daily (I'm an exception) and certainly few, if any, R2s are daily drivers. So what's the problem?

                Comment


                • #9
                  You forget that many, if not most R2 cars are sold to new Studebaker drivers, many of the "cheap skates" are priced out of the current market. Also, do think the owners of million dollar plus Hemi Cuda's drive them at all ? With at least one R2 Lark pushing over 50K n a recent sale, someday they may just become static display cars, trailered from show to show.

                  JDP/Maryland
                  JDP Maryland

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I bought my R-2 Hawk from a caso who had removed the blower & cam because he didnt like the noise it made. It took me 3 years to find the parts needed to return it to its original condition & I'll be dammed if that would happen to this car again! Fortunatly for me, i didnt have to find everything, for the distributor, oil pan, alternator & bracket were intact, but finding that pesky water manifold was the worst (before you could buy a repro). If things get that bad, I'll take the belt off the blower for the time being, or just drive it 3 blocks from here to the cruise night at the taco station & park it the rest of the time.

                    60 Lark convertible
                    61 Champ
                    62 Daytona convertible
                    63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
                    63 Avanti (2)
                    66 Daytona Sport Sedan
                    59 Lark wagon, now V-8, H.D. auto!
                    60 Lark convertible V-8 auto
                    61 Champ 1/2 ton 4 speed
                    62 Champ 3/4 ton 5 speed o/drive
                    62 Champ 3/4 ton auto
                    62 Daytona convertible V-8 4 speed & 62 Cruiser, auto.
                    63 G.T. Hawk R-2,4 speed
                    63 Avanti (2) R-1 auto
                    64 Zip Van
                    66 Daytona Sport Sedan(327)V-8 4 speed
                    66 Cruiser V-8 auto

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I agree with all that has been said, but if the price of gas REALLY got stupid, it might effect Avanti/R-powered Lark owners more than the really high dollar muscle cars that need premium.

                      Why?

                      Well, the Studebakers are much cheaper...and more are owned by guys like me who can't quite swing $200,000 for a Shelby (or more for a some exotic MOPAR or Chevy).
                      So for R-series owners (whether they're CASOs or not), $10 a gallon gas would have a greater impact than it would to some guy who can afford a more expensive car...not that many of those are driven all that much either.

                      63 Avanti R1 2788
                      1914 Stutz Bearcat
                      (George Barris replica)

                      Washington State
                      63 Avanti R1 2788
                      1914 Stutz Bearcat
                      (George Barris replica)

                      Washington State

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        People that want to drive their car will
                        Others will park them more often
                        At our chapter show Memorial weekend
                        a guy drove up in a knarly sounding 396 Chevelle
                        I sniffed the air,detected race fuel and quizzed the
                        owner as to the cost.$6.05 per gallon was his reply
                        and he averaged a tank a weekend.He said he owned the
                        car to enjoy the experience of driving it and would cut
                        corners somewhere else to buy the "good gas"
                        There have always been those who drive because they enjoy
                        doing so and those who drive only to get to the shows,R1-R2 will
                        be no exception
                        Mono mind in a stereo world

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What's a CASO???
                          John

                          62' Deluxe R2 4SPD.

                          63' R1 Wagonaire

                          57' Transtar 259 punched to 312 NP540 4:09 TT Under Construction

                          58' 3E6D Stock 4X4

                          64' (Studebaker Built) Trailer Toter

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                          • #14
                            Cheap a.. Studebaker owner

                            quote:Originally posted by 289stude

                            What's a CASO???
                            Frank van Doorn
                            Omaha, Ne.
                            1962 GT Hawk 289 4 speed
                            1941 Champion streetrod, R-2 Powered, GM 200-4R trans.
                            1952 V-8 232 Commander State "Starliner" hardtop OD

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm waiting for PBR2 to see this- he drives his daily.

                              I was at our local Wed. night cruise and asked a few of the guys their version of this question (no Studes). Lots of interesting comments.

                              The general consensus- usage of the cars have dropped because of fuel prices; it's taking the fun out of the hobby for some, to varying degrees. A few cars have sprouted For Sale signs, and a few are trying to decide whether they want to keep theirs or not.

                              I know few, if any, are daily drivers. But I'm wondering if the cost at the pump when they do go out is making anyone less interested in taking them out at all... a couple guys locally are starting to think like that a little already- and we're in a 6-month season area! Wonder what it's like where you can drive 'em year round?[:0][B)]



                              Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
                              Parish, central NY 13131

                              "Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

                              "With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that happiness is a thing called Larking!"



                              Comment

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