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Bill Pressler
05-16-2008, 08:50 AM
Another piece of new info from the SNM archives on Avanti-Powered Stude Skytops I've been researching on and off for years:

Two '63 R1 Skytops were shown on production orders as being shipped to L.S. Kerr Motors in Cleveland Heights, OH. One of the cars is known to have survived in fine condition and is now owned by Paul Warta of Kernersville, NC.

A few months back while at the SNM archives, I looked at the shipping certificates of the two cars noted above, and noted that Kerr's name was crossed out, and "Arthurs Auto Sales, Gaylord, MI" was written in on one (63V-31447), and "Cummings Auto Sales, Seymour, IN" was written on the other (63V-33764).

Retail sales records for the cars indicate the first was sold to a customer in Portsmouth, OH, and the latter to a customer in South Lebanon, OH--both in Feb. '64. The SNM pulled copies of another style retail-sales record card for these two cars and the first was sold by McNeer Motor Co. in Portsmouth, OH, and the latter by Wilmot Motors, Hamilton, OH. So both these cars, originally destined for Cleveland Hts., OH, were sent to other dealers, then to third dealers where they were finally retailed.

Similarly, a '64 convertible sold by my hometown dealer had been obtained in a dealer trade from Buffalo, NY.

Both of the Skytops mentioned above, have names filled out on the card under "Consignee's Name" and dates recorded in "Formerly Region Consigned on:" blocks, which I've never seen on any other retail sales cards.

Might be nice to have the production order, shipping certificate, and retail sales card for one's Stude! Note that retail sales cards start with the '60 models, and starting in Sept. '63, another form was also instituted that showed the buyer's occupation and trade-in as well as name and address, and name and town of the selling dealer and salesman's name too. I'm told that it appears these records are not totally complete, however.

Should one obtain the name of the original buyer of one's Studebaker, it probably goes without saying that it would be wiser to try and write the seller first, as opposed to a phone call or visit. This is assuming of course that you have determined that the buyer is still with us! Of course, many original owners of even later Studes will be senior citizens at this date, so intelligence and discretion is advised!

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1

lstude
05-16-2008, 11:36 AM
My Mother bought a 58 Silver Hawk new in August 1958 at Pence-Briggs Studebaker in Richmond, VA. The build sheet says it was delivered to South Boston, VA in October 57.

The build sheet also says it was all white and when she bought it, it had gold fins.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/58SilverHawkbuildsheetsm.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/58SilverHawkinbackyardcc1.jpg

Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/MyStudebakernobackgroundsm.jpg

barnlark
05-16-2008, 11:52 AM
Great job Bill!!! What a sleuth. I'm going to have to sick you on my car's history.

Leonard, what the heck? My eyes hurt trying to bring that back in focus!

Bill Pressler
05-16-2008, 11:52 AM
Leonard,

What a pretty car! What was/is its fate?

Funny you mention the fins being painted. My dealer friend Ed Filer has told me that they would paint fins and sometimes roofs of lower-line Hawks to 'dress them up'. The gold fins sure do make a nice 'accent'.

I wish I had a scanner, so I could post what the Shipping Certificate and Retail Sales Records look like. I have both the production order and shipping certificate for my Daytona; the SNM did not have a Retail Sales Record for my car but I know the name of the original owner from the Shipping Certificate anyway, as the car was a factory delivery and the customer's name was typed in on the shipping certificate.

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1

lstude
05-16-2008, 11:58 AM
Sorry the picture is poor. I took it when I was 13 years old! Below is a better ( but not much!)picture when I had made some modifications. I was 16 when this picture was taken.

My Mother traded the Hawk for a 61 Lark and the dealer told me that they sold the Hawk to a county cop. I don't know what happened to it since then, but I would love to find it.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/Meby58Hawk1961crop.jpg

Leonard Shepherd
http://leonardshepherd.com/

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/MyStudebakernobackgroundsm.jpg

8E45E
05-16-2008, 01:22 PM
quote:Originally posted by Bill Pressler



Retail sales records for the cars indicate the first was sold to a customer in Portsmouth, OH, and the latter to a customer in South Lebanon, OH--both in Feb. '64. The SNM pulled copies of another style retail-sales record card for these two cars and the first was sold by McNeer Motor Co. in Portsmouth, OH, and the latter by Wilmot Motors, Hamilton, OH. So both these cars, originally destined for Cleveland Hts., OH, were sent to other dealers, then to third dealers where they were finally retailed.



This should not be a surprise to anyone!! Dealer Transfers have been on-going forever. My great-aunt special-ordered a '62 Bonneville from the local Pontiac dealer in Edmonton, and was told it would be a 2 month wait to get everything she wanted. In the end, she was able to have her new car in just over a week, as a Pontiac dealer in Pocatello, Idaho happened to have one on their lot for sale almost identical to the one she ordered, although there was an option or two she did not get by accepting it. (The dealer gave her credit for the missing options). If that car still exists in Edmonton, and its owner decides to order the build sheet for it from GM Archives, it will no doubt still show an Idaho destination, although it was sold 'new' in Canada.

Craig

Bill Pressler
05-16-2008, 01:30 PM
This should not be a surprise to anyone!! Dealer Transfers have been on-going forever. My great-aunt special-ordered a '62 Bonneville from the local Pontiac dealer in Edmonton, and was told it would be a 2 month wait to get everything she wanted. In the end, she was able to have her new car in just over a week, as a Pontiac dealer in Pocatello, Idaho happened to have one on their lot for sale almost identical to the one she ordered, although there was an option or two she did not get by accepting it. (The dealer gave her credit for the missing options). If that car still exists in Edmonton, and its owner decides to order the build sheet for it from GM Archives, it will no doubt still show an Idaho destination, although it was sold 'new' in Canada.

Craig[/quote]

I guess this is logical, although for some reason I figured that in the 'old days' you just ordered a car. I don't remember the dealer-trade scenario being bantered around until the early '80's...but maybe the reason for that is, that's when I started buying new cars for myself!

BTW, I like '62 Bonneville hardtops. I like them better than the Grand Prix that year. I'd want one with buckets and console...I think I've seen one on eBay, but when I thumbed through a sales brochure for one, buckets and console weren't listed.

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1

8E45E
05-16-2008, 01:39 PM
quote:Originally posted by Bill Pressler


BTW, I like '62 Bonneville hardtops. I like them better than the Grand Prix that year. I'd want one with buckets and console...I think I've seen one on eBay, but when I thumbed through a sales brochure for one, buckets and console weren't listed.


I wish I had some pictures to show! It indeed had 'buckets & console'!:D It was 2 door hardtop, white, with an all-black interior. I absolutely loved that car!. She traded it for a brand new 1971 Olds Cutlass in the fall of 1970.:(

Craig

nels
05-16-2008, 09:41 PM
Bill,
I think the skytop that went to South Lebonan, Oh is the one I used to own. A white/black bucket seat R1 power shift. I think I talked to you about that one once. Has it showed up any where?

Swifster
05-16-2008, 10:23 PM
Along with dealer trades, many vehicles were send to regional stock yards. My car was send to N. Sacramento. There were more than one dealer in North Central, CA.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Mulberry, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/rollingpi.gif http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/01-01-05TheStartingPoint.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/07-17-07FrontClipRemoved.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/The%20Daytona%20File/Avatar%20Size/04-11-08CoolingFan.jpg

Bill Pressler
05-17-2008, 05:04 AM
Nels, I remember you telling me that you had a car that fit that description, the one time I had my car up at the Zone Meet in Canton, OH, probably ten or twelve years ago.

I don't believe the car is accounted for.

Remember the Super Red Custom 2D Skytop Sedan R2/Powershift car I was trying to get info on? The fellow who was supposedly the original owner in Altoona, PA, wrote me back and said although he was a friend of the dealership's owner, he never remembered owning such a car? The SNM apparently couldn't locate a Retail Sales Card (the later type, with trade-in and buyer's occupation info on it) to verify the other-style card I saw that did have this fellow's name as purchaser. Strange!

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1


quote:Originally posted by nels

Bill,
I think the skytop that went to South Lebonan, Oh is the one I used to own. A white/black bucket seat R1 power shift. I think I talked to you about that one once. Has it showed up any where?

jackb
05-17-2008, 08:44 AM
...a couple of thoughts.....I got to know a couple of old time Stude dealers whose Stude businesses went back to the 30's. Very interesting marriages with the factory...anyway, dealer trading was very much employed to make a sale. There was also a regional "stock" yard in Boston on Comm. Ave. that always held 30-40 cars/trucks for the dealers who needed to connect with a customer or replenish his own dealership. My hometown dealer (whose car I now own) made many a summer trip to South Bend with 2-3 salesmen (relatives) and brought home "drive-aways" at steep discounts.

Bill Pressler
05-17-2008, 11:32 AM
Jack, quite ironically it just hit me...the one Skytop that is currently owned by Paul Warta, has on its Retail Sales Card from the SNM, "Consignee's Initials and Name, J.E. Breen, 1/30/64". It's the car that was originally slated for Cleveland Heights, OH, then went to Gaylord, MI and eventually, Portsmouth, OH. What's the chance? Not you or a relative, could it be?

I always admired your (former) gorgeous Strato Blue '64 convertible. Westmoreland did the body and paint on my Daytona too, but it was a body-on restoration, to be driven as they would say, so I kept them reined in a bit. I think they're nice folks, and the paint on my car they did still looks great after thirteen or fourteen years.

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1


quote:Originally posted by jackb

...a couple of thoughts.....I got to know a couple of old time Stude dealers whose Stude businesses went back to the 30's. Very interesting marriages with the factory...anyway, dealer trading was very much employed to make a sale. There was also a regional "stock" yard in Boston on Comm. Ave. that always held 30-40 cars/trucks for the dealers who needed to connect with a customer or replenish his own dealership. My hometown dealer (whose car I now own) made many a summer trip to South Bend with 2-3 salesmen (relatives) and brought home "drive-aways" at steep discounts.

sumf
05-17-2008, 04:45 PM
The only new car I ever bought was in 1967 and I selected it item by item. The salesman made a call and it was there one evening later.
When I got it home, the tire pressures were far off and the headlight out of aim and maybe a few other things wrong, but could wait a while until I was at the dealership (on company time.)

They started giving me a hard time until I showed him the tire pressure, then he looked up the car and found that no prep at all had been done and took care ofm it, along with a wheel vibration fix that was covered in a service bulletin.

nels
05-17-2008, 04:58 PM
Bill, Andy Petris might know something about that super red car.




quote:Originally posted by Bill Pressler

Nels, I remember you telling me that you had a car that fit that description, the one time I had my car up at the Zone Meet in Canton, OH, probably ten or twelve years ago.

I don't believe the car is accounted for.

Remember the Super Red Custom 2D Skytop Sedan R2/Powershift car I was trying to get info on? The fellow who was supposedly the original owner in Altoona, PA, wrote me back and said although he was a friend of the dealership's owner, he never remembered owning such a car? The SNM apparently couldn't locate a Retail Sales Card (the later type, with trade-in and buyer's occupation info on it) to verify the other-style card I saw that did have this fellow's name as purchaser. Strange!

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1


quote:Originally posted by nels

Bill,
I think the skytop that went to South Lebonan, Oh is the one I used to own. A white/black bucket seat R1 power shift. I think I talked to you about that one once. Has it showed up any where?

StudeRich
05-17-2008, 05:03 PM
I take it this was a non-Stude. with the overlooked dealer Prep. right?
There were Studes. sold in 1967 you know!


quote:Originally posted by sumf

The only new car I ever bought was in 1967

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

ivorydan
05-19-2008, 06:22 AM
Bill, the Retail Delivery Card, an IBM computer key punch card, even listed the salesman's social security card number. C. J. Pajakowski, a salesman at Newman & Altman, was the salesman of my 64 Hawk. His social security number is right there on the card. Some of these sales folks are probably still alive!

barnlark
05-19-2008, 07:36 AM
[quote]Originally posted by lstude

Sorry the picture is poor. I took it when I was 13 years old! Below is a better ( but not much!)picture when I had made some modifications. I was 16 when this picture was taken.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/LHSJR/Meby58Hawk1961crop.jpg

Just kidding Leonard..I love that color combo and the family history. You have so many rare, perfect condition literature posts that I had to razz you a little. Those legs I can take out of focus though!!! What a great memory shot. I still have range finder cameras on which you had to guess distance and didn't have the luxury of an actual through the lens focus ability. Those old Zeiss lenses were pretty darn forgiving, though.

Bill Pressler
05-19-2008, 06:49 PM
When you get the card from the museum now, the S.S. number is blacked out. I'm OK with that (!).

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1


quote:Originally posted by ivorydan

Bill, the Retail Delivery Card, an IBM computer key punch card, even listed the salesman's social security card number. C. J. Pajakowski, a salesman at Newman & Altman, was the salesman of my 64 Hawk. His social security number is right there on the card. Some of these sales folks are probably still alive!

Bill Pressler
05-19-2008, 06:55 PM
Dave (Barnlark), I attribute my interest in our cars' histories to having no mechanical ability whatsoever! It's a 'replacement' interest I think!

The chance is quite good that the SNM will have the original-style punch card with the name of the original purchaser of your car. They have these, starting with the '60 model year. It will have the dealer number, and name and address of the original owner. As a favor to our friend Ted, I got his when I was at the archives back in late Feb. We haven't been able to locate any info on the owner. Unfortunately, his car's Retail Sales Record shows only a first initial with a last name, and a street address.

Congrats on the photos of your neat convertible and the accompanying article, in the latest TW!

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1


quote:Originally posted by barnlark

Great job Bill!!! What a sleuth. I'm going to have to sick you on my car's history.

Leonard, what the heck? My eyes hurt trying to bring that back in focus!