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View Full Version : was looking for a Daytona, and found an Avanti....



loc8tor
05-15-2008, 07:00 PM
I know most of you saw a post I had a few months back about wanting to sell off some of my Pontiacs and buy a Studebaker of my very own(my fiancee has a 58 Silver Hawk, and 2 GTs). Well I have been on the search for a Daytona, and the other day I had a guy stop to see my GTO, but, he was more intrested in the 2+2, one thing led to another and the Studebaker subject came up.......well, turns out he has a 63 Avanti, red, white interior, non supercharged automatic...and its been setting a long time, but it has never been wrecked, and is all original....my question is for all you Avanti guys, whats it worth, and what should I look for? Im clueless on these and have never really followed them on any market such as Hemmings or eBay....HELP! LOL.....

hmmm, my girlfriend has 2 GT Hawks....and I feel left out, wheres my "R" model Daytona????

mbstude
05-15-2008, 07:01 PM
A wise man once said, "There's nothing more expensive than a cheap Avanti". Just be sure to keep that in mind. ;)

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar-9.jpg

whacker
05-15-2008, 07:11 PM
The main thing to look at is the condition of the "hog troughs". They are steel reinforcing channels under the cabin that are intended to stiffen the frame. They were never treated for rust prevention at the factory before they were installed, and commonly rust out. Replacement is estimated at 40 - 60 hours by an experienced body man.

wolfie
05-15-2008, 07:14 PM
And the troughs themselfs run around another grand.Steve

StudeRich
05-15-2008, 07:24 PM
Check it for sagging doors and cracks at the front fender to body/cowl area, caused by frame flex. [:0]

These may not be a deal breaker, but these and the hog troughs definitely figure into the selling price! [:0]

JDP knows better than I, but I guess between 8 and $12,000.00 depending on many things, assuming it needs at least Paint and some mechanical repair, to Brakes etc.

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

DEEPNHOCK
05-15-2008, 07:44 PM
Well, I asked you (via e-mail) about the last two cars you tossed up here on the forum, and you never responded.
Am I on your 'no reply' list?
Just curious....
Jeff



quote:Originally posted by loc8tor

I know most of you saw a post I had a few months back about wanting to sell off some of my Pontiacs and buy a Studebaker of my very own(my fiancee has a 58 Silver Hawk, and 2 GTs). Well I have been on the search for a Daytona, and the other day I had a guy stop to see my GTO, but, he was more intrested in the 2+2, one thing led to another and the Studebaker subject came up.......well, turns out he has a 63 Avanti, red, white interior, non supercharged automatic...and its been setting a long time, but it has never been wrecked, and is all original....my question is for all you Avanti guys, whats it worth, and what should I look for? Im clueless on these and have never really followed them on any market such as Hemmings or eBay....HELP! LOL.....

hmmm, my girlfriend has 2 GT Hawks....and I feel left out, wheres my "R" model Daytona????

loc8tor
05-15-2008, 07:47 PM
Jeff, sent ya a PM.....

hmmm, my girlfriend has 2 GT Hawks....and I feel left out, wheres my "R" model Daytona????

Mark57
05-15-2008, 08:00 PM
Save your money, get a nice Studebaker Truck! Ya' can't carry a moose in the back of an Avanti...;) [}:)][}:)] :D

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar Deluxe
Vancouver Island </h5>
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/IMG_0099A.jpg

WCP
05-15-2008, 08:52 PM
A white interior was not an option on a '63 Avanti, as far as I know. That suggests that the car is not "all original". The Avanti can be very expensive to restore, if you need to replace or locate missing parts. Estimate the dollars it would take to put the car on the road and then triple it. Then you will be closer to reality. On the plus side, you won't find a more fun car to drive. If it is a southern "rust free" car and doesn't have a sun damaged interior,and any of the problems of previous posts, try to buy it with the anticipation that you will probably double the cost, at minimum, to put it on the road.

fstst56
05-15-2008, 10:07 PM
Press around the inside on the "A" pillars. If you hear a crunchy sound it means the windshield channel is rusted.

Thomas63R2
05-15-2008, 10:08 PM
Well, as true as JDP's words about a cheap Avanti may be - it is true as well for any old car to the degree the owner allows. What about JDP's Ceaser with $54,000 in receipts and Sid at $63,000. Neither one is an Avanti.

Two things:
1) Where are the pictures? - we need visual confirmation of condition/decay.
2) How much does he want? If he told you to set the opening bid that means he has some idea of its value - but he wants to see if he can get lucky and have you open with a higher value.

I wouldn't be concerned with absolute originality unless you want to be competitive at shows. Some sellers unintentionally misrepresent a car because they don't know any better. My two favorite ways this plays out:
1) The car is *original* because it they haven't changed anything since they've owned the car - even if a previous owner had taken liberties.
2) That is an under 100,000 mile car because that is what the odometer shows - nevermind that the odometer hass only five digits and starts over after every 99,999 miles.

Take some pics and post them.

Thomas

Long time hot rodder
Packrat junk collector
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed

JBOYLE
05-16-2008, 11:42 AM
To find someone to do a pre-purchase inspoection you might try an Avanti-owner in the SDC near the car or someone in the AOAI. That's what I did when I found my car in South Bend. In fact, the president of the AOAI inspected it for me, he was in town for the opening of the new National museum.
My car turned out to be pretty much as described by the seller and Mike. Serviceable (a 5-footer) but tired paint, shot window rubber, no body issues but in need of some service and TLC. Remember, it's still a 45 year old car.

If the car has been sitting, mentally budget $1-2,000 to re-awaken it.
New fluids, belts, hoses, gaskets, seals, possible a brake/PS systems overahul.
Mine is in good shape and the engine has never been apart and still runs strong, but it's in the shop now as the other systems tend to dislike sitting more than the engine.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

PackardV8
05-16-2008, 02:48 PM
Just my experience and opinions:

1. Any '60s Studebaker which has been sitting will have the same costs to get it up and operable, safe and reliable. Mechanically, they're identical.
2. Whatever hog trough and windshield post issues an Avanti may have, it is usually an easier, less expensive fix than typical east-of-the-Mississippi-bottom-half-completely-rusted-away steel Studes have. A dedicated shade-tree can replace hog troughs.
3. Every Avanti was an R1, at least. If AT, it was a Powershift. These are very rare options on Daytonas.
4. Styling is personal preference, but most seem to think an Avanti may be more of an icon than is a Daytona.

Bottom line for me, as long as Avanti are dirt-cheap, why make the same investment in a Daytona ?

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

Roscomacaw
05-16-2008, 05:27 PM
Jack, it's too bad JDP's away in New Orleans. ANYTHING to do with an Avanti, short of the mechanicals costs more.

Thomas63r2's observations are flawed, because those outrageous totals on those 2 non-Avanti Studes are, for the most part, totals that were run up by previous owners who exercized the option of restoring the cars by just writing checks. When you restore a car like that, ANY car, it's gonna be extremely expensive. Hell, I worked in a resto shop in the mid-late 70s where we restored a '49 Chevy 4-door for an elderly couple that happened to have lotsa money. This was in the SEVENTIES remember - and the car cost over $20K when it was done. And it was not a rusty thing when they brought it to us to start on![:0]

Miscreant Studebaker nut in California's central valley.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President two door

bams50
05-16-2008, 06:27 PM
quote:Originally posted by PackardV8

Bottom line for me, as long as Avanti are dirt-cheap, why make the same investment in a Daytona ?


That is just for you, because I can think of 2 reasons:

1. A #4-5 Avanti will cost several thousand more than a #4-5 Daytona; so for the working family-man hobbyist, which raggedy corpse dragged in is easier to explain to the wife- the $7K Avanti or then $800 Daytona?

2. Some of us just don't care for Avantis, while simultaneously having a thing for Lark types. Frequently folks see old cars as a hobby for enjoyment, instead of a way to "invest".

As always, my car, my money;)



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that happiness is a thing called Larking!"

loc8tor
05-16-2008, 06:33 PM
Thanks for all the input, Im gonna try and look at it tommorrow.
...as for originality, if it is, Ill keep it original, if it doesnt its not a deal killer
...I like the idea of having a Daytona, and stuffing it full of supercharged studebaker...I like the sleeper look with killer 1/4 mile times, it doesnt have to be stock its just what I like. Never really had the hots for an Avanti, but, she likes em! Figured if all else failed she could have the Avanti, and Id take the 58 Hawk we are building for her...just wanted to know where I should be price wise......I heard it could be bought for a little under $5k

hmmm, my girlfriend has 2 GT Hawks....and I feel left out, wheres my "R" model Daytona????

Dick Steinkamp
05-16-2008, 06:37 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

2. Some of us just don't care for Avantis, while simultaneously having a thing for Lark types.



I'm with YOU bams. Avantis are one of those love em or hate em type cars. While I don't actually HATE them, I'd MUCH rather have a Lark.



http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

mbstude
05-16-2008, 06:38 PM
quote:I'm with YOU bams. Avantis are one of those love em or hate em type cars. While I don't actually HATE them, I'd MUCH rather have a Lark.

Yep. [^]

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar-9.jpg

loc8tor
05-16-2008, 07:35 PM
bams, I like the looks of the hawk, but love the performance advantage of the lark with the same equipment! The Avanti, would be strictly for her, not me, lol, I dont dislike them, they are just not me, just like I prefer winged hawks to the GTs(where she is just the opposite), just my opinion, I also like the 64-66 lark better than the 60-63s(and she only likes the 66s, but, I feel its because her dad has the one he bought new!), however the 60-63s really are growing on me, ALOT...especially the versions with aftermarket wheels....but again just my opinion.

hmmm, my girlfriend has 2 GT Hawks....and I feel left out, wheres my "R" model Daytona????

bams50
05-16-2008, 07:53 PM
If you can get the Avanti cheap, maybe you can clean it up and get it driving and eBay it to raise money for your Lark[8D]

Funny thing... I like all the Larks, but originally only liked the first gen. I'd guess of the 3 basic generations, the 64/5 are the most popular. I just prefer the nose and tail of the 62/3.

I just love watching the Tomato roll up to the line... picture a snarling, angry-looking Camaro in one lane, and a 63 Lark trundling up with a happy face and that too-tall roof, looking like it's humming a kid's tune to itself... the Camaro sneers and looks down the track... then the lights go down and all of a sudden the Lark gets SERIOUS, and the Camaro doesn't know what hit it[:0][B)]

I've seen it happen... coolest thing ever.[8D]:D



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that happiness is a thing called Larking!"

PackardV8
05-16-2008, 07:59 PM
quote:ANYTHING to do with an Avanti, short of the mechanicals costs more.

JMHO, but I'd disagree with that statement. I've restored several steel cars and one Avanti. Upholstery, carpets, paint, chrome, instruments, glass are a wash. Body work is usually less expensive on an Avanti. So, specifically, what is so much more expensive?

IIRC, JDPs statement was based upon the fact there isn't as much spread between the usual asking price, the cost of restoration and the resale.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

Thomas63R2
05-16-2008, 10:45 PM
Well, I figured that mentioning Ceasar and Sid would get a reaction. Funny thing is that those totals are on the low end of a checkbook restoration, I have seen plenty show worthy jobs one side or the other of $100k. The owner of one of the nicest local '57 Chevy convertibles spent $109,000 on just the resto, not including the car cost.

But that is all beyond what we are talking about here.

If you or your girlfriend like the Avanti, and it is not in need of new hog troughs or major bodywork - but is otherwise complete and in need of a resto, it would be a definite buy between $3,500 to $4,500.

Each of us should buy and enjoy whatever we like. I'm not sure why people mention that they do not like Avantis when a fellow is asking for some help.

I appreciate the legend of the Stude Tomato. The last time I checked there were only six guys who regulary drag raced Studes - meanwhile the '67 to '69 Camarao has gone BACK into production via new aftermarket bodies. I'm not sure that the snarling Camaro lined up against Ted had the same level of prep or driver's experience. Camaros do not fear the Tomato, but experience and performance development experience will win nearly every time.

Post pics of the Avanti when you can.

Thomas

Long time hot rodder
Packrat junk collector
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed

JDP
05-16-2008, 11:18 PM
Jack nailed it. Buying a Avanti for 7K, then dumping 20K to make it a nice car gets you upside down in a hurry. Most "cheap" Avanti's need hog troughs, and maybe a frame to get started, and that'll put you upside done in the car before you get started. The interior restoration is a nightmare and parts are hard to find and expensive.
I've seldom made a dime flipping a Avanti, but I keep trying.:)

JDP/Maryland

bams50
05-17-2008, 06:45 AM
quote:Originally posted by Thomas63R2


Each of us should buy and enjoy whatever we like. I'm not sure why people mention that they do not like Avantis when a fellow is asking for some help.



You weren't paying attention.

That was written in response to "Bottom line for me, as long as Avanti are dirt-cheap, why make the same investment in a Daytona?" Point being, when loc8tor mentioned he preferred a Daytona over an Avanti, maybe he was speaking from a perspective of a hobbyist wanting what he likes, as opposed to trying to make a living from the hobby.

So when you wrote "Each of us should buy and enjoy whatever we like", you were saying exactly what I said. As in, defending loc8tor's position.



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that happiness is a thing called Larking!"

bams50
05-17-2008, 06:55 AM
quote:Originally posted by Thomas63R2

I'm not sure that the snarling Camaro lined up against Ted had the same level of prep or driver's experience. Camaros do not fear the Tomato


I never said I had any idea of the Camaro's level of prep or driver's experience. Nor did I say Camaros are living things, therefore it follows that I don't think they feel fear. I said "picture" that scene, which indicated a fictional scene, written just for fun, to illustrate a point. When I said I've seen it happen, I didn't mean I actually saw a Camaro looking around and making expressions with a living face; I was just illustrating the concept I DID see, which was the contrast between the racy-looking Big 3 muscle cars and the not-nearly-as-sporty Lark.

Can't believe I had to explain that, but there you go.



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that happiness is a thing called Larking!"

loc8tor
05-17-2008, 07:12 AM
hmmmm, well, what really lit the fire under me in the search for my own supercharged lark, all can be blamed on her father......
.....shortly after I started dating Teresa, I was setting on the couch watching NASCAR on the tube, and he comes walking in with the latest issue of TW. He said here their are a couple of GTOs in this issue. I looked at him probably like, have you really lost your mind, LOL. He smiled as I took the copy and proceed to flip thru it, it just so happened it was an issue with the Pure Stock Drags in it. As I read the article and saw first hand how the "snarling"(I'll use bams adjective) Camaro(a 427 Yenko) was up against either the "mato" or the "wrapper" cant remember which. And the powerful 427 cid big block flagship Chevrolet ponycar, barely beat the measely 289(ok maybe its a 301) unassuming Lark.
That was it, I was hooked! I have been looking for one since that day.

hmmm, my girlfriend has 2 GT Hawks....and I feel left out, wheres my "R" model Daytona????

Thomas63R2
05-17-2008, 12:53 PM
Its all good Bob, I appreciate your love of Studes showing their prowess at the drags - personally I wish that would happen more often. I'm pretty sure I have the car as an inanimate object concept down, no explanation needed.

Thomas

Long time hot rodder
Packrat junk collector
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed

bams50
05-17-2008, 01:03 PM
And I wish I could get interested in building a drag car. It would be fun to pester the crate motor guys at the local drags with a funny-looking Lark. But I had lots of years behind the wheel, and I've yet to get interested in learning a new type of racing[|)]

Still, I don't rule it completely out;)



Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that happiness is a thing called Larking!"

Thomas63R2
05-17-2008, 11:21 PM
Bob, don't worry about learning a new type of racing - if you will build it I will drive it for you. I usually always have killer reaction times. If I get enough of my projects out of the way I will be drag racing again by July. Don't aim at the crate motor crowd, bigger prey can be had - besides that I like wheels up 10 second rides.

Thomas

Long time hot rodder
Packrat junk collector
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed