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View Full Version : Studebaker Wisdom in the June 2008 HMN



BobPalma
05-06-2008, 09:07 PM
:) From the RM/Scottsdale Auction Report in the June 2008 Hemmings Motor News comes the following enlightenment.

The red 1958 Packard Hawk that sold for a whopping $74,250 in January was described as a #2/Restored Car.

The text accompanying the write-up about this car concluded thus: "These ugly ducklings have long been shunned by Packard and Studebaker collectors alike, so the enthusiastic bidding here was something of a surprise."

You learn the darndest "facts" [:0] when you read the general collector-car press! :DBP

Roscomacaw
05-06-2008, 09:20 PM
IF they did any research this time, they obviously got some "expert" advice. Probably consulted some Packard type with a couple of grand 20s-30s Phaetons![}:)] Those with a huge Straight[8] :(

Miscreant Studebaker nut in California's central valley.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President two door

rockne10
05-06-2008, 09:54 PM
Well, Bobs, if I had two or three of those under my roof, I'd probably find some snide remark to make about the '58 PH. In the company I keep, having a '53 Coupe can be construed as ostentatious

Brad Johnson
Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/rockne10/Rockne/th_Rocknegauges.jpg'33 Rockne 10, '51 Commander Starlight, '53 Commander Starlight

barnlark
05-06-2008, 11:39 PM
I don't mean to defend the accuracy of the "collector-car press," as BP stated with this post at all, but if one of them happened upon our various forums during the course of the year and perused some of the comments about a Packard Hawk, or any model of Studebaker really, they might find us agreeing to disagree on what models are appreciated the most. I could see how one little negative comment in a thread about a certain car's looks could be used out of context in an article like that, even though fifty of us there may really like the model and year of that car. Some people love them and some would never even think about ever owning one fairly often in discussions. People's tastes are very diverse, even though nobody disrespects other owner's cars outright here.

Maybe the author simply had their own opinion and lumped Studebaker and Packard owners in to qualify a bias, I'm not sure. I will agree on this: "something of a surprise" for the bidding. Wow!

I personally have never owned a Packard Hawk, but I have seen some seriously beautiful examples pictured here and I think they are pretty cool and are fairly rare cars to find and own. I wouldn't want to speak for anyone but myself, but I may "shun" the $74,250 price tag for a #2 PH. However, if a new owner loves that car and thinks it's worth it, who am I to shun anything? All S-P owners should be as happy as that buyer apparently was. My guess is the seller, too. Great for all of our values, I hope.

Who knows who their source was, but obviously not all the "collectors" shunned that one...

bonehead007
05-07-2008, 06:39 AM
As one of the proud owners of a 58 PH , don't knock the styling till you own one.. Compared to the metal hulks of GM & Ford in the 50's, these SP's were way ahead of their time in styling & designing.

Remember the "European" look of the 50's Studebakers. Only now is GM, Ford & Chrysler following & modeling some of their cars based on European cars.

Besides, when you look at the smiling grin of a Packard Hawk, you can only smile back & wish you owned one.


http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q189/bonehead007/MVC-021F.jpg

New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together

JRoberts
05-07-2008, 07:12 AM
quote: Besides, when you look at the smiling grin of a Packard Hawk, you can only smile back & wish you owned one.


Amen! I have never understood the dislike of the looks of Packard Hawks. I think they are a wonderful design.

Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

Avantidon
05-07-2008, 08:31 AM
Bob, I also read that statement yesterday as my Sister and Brother-In-Law were present at that sale when the car was hammered sold. They of course were flattered with the sale as they have one PH that has been in our family for about 25-40 years and soon will be completely restored. As we all know, there is a "TOO Each His OWN" philosophy when it comes to what we like with antique vehicles. I personally enjoy seeing these cars at major Concours Events because they always evoke much conversation. It is very interesting that the latest display set to open in the AACA Museum on 05/10/08 has chosen to feature a 1958 Packard Hawk as its poster child for their FINS Exhibit. Come see it as the car is there just like my 61 P/U was for the Pickup exhibit.:D

BobPalma
05-07-2008, 08:41 AM
:) Boy, I do wonder how many Packard Hawks are extant.

The survival number in any condition has got to be unusually high...but then, it often is for cars that were expensive when new. Those original owners tended to give them an easier life and better-than-average care and feeding for at least the first [original-owner] period of ownership.

Personally, I've always liked Packard Hawks...and can't recall when they have ever "long been shunned" by anyone, for that matter. This "report" is probably another case of what an under-informed writer thought might be conventional wisdom.[xx(] :DBP

raprice
05-07-2008, 09:12 AM
Every time I've seen a Packard Hawk, I've been amazed at how much Stude designers could do with such a limited budget. They proved it time and time again over the difficult years.
Rog

'59 Lark VI Regal Hardtop

MikeW
05-07-2008, 10:09 AM
I maintain the roster of surviving Packard Hawks. I currently have 249 listed as still surviving. These range from beautifully restored cars, probably less than 75 to bucket cases that will take a lot of love to bring back. Most fall somewhere between these extremes. I would guess that 249, and this is no doubt not all, of 588 built is a fantastic survival rate. I am unsure if any other S/P product equals this.

If you have one of these cars and I don't have it listed, please consider contacting me at www.packardhawk.com and letting me include it with the rest.

I actually set out to obtain a Packard Hawk and I do have other cars but I have to admit the Hawk is my favorite.
The car that sold at auction has an R2 engine and is not painted an original Packard Hawk color. So I would question the #2 classification. However, it is a beautiful auto. Just not original.




Mike
www.packardhawk.com

JBOYLE
05-07-2008, 10:59 AM
I like the look...I'd love one and/or a 57 Golden Hawk.
The main point that some don't like is its "trout pout" (long before Meg Ryan's) but if you look, it was not alone with that feature. The English Daimler Dart limited production sportscar had a similar look a couple of years later.

It's good to hear of their high survival rate (42.3%)...there are even two known in the U.K.
The only other Studebaker with a comparable survival rate [u]might</u> be 63-64 Avantis.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

TX Rebel
05-07-2008, 11:27 AM
All posts appreciated.
I saw a gorgeous solid black K9 at the recent Tulsa Zone meet which had just been completed by Greg Ciuba of Wichita Falls, TX. It is probably the nicest I have ever seen. He owns a body shop and he really got the body work straight before applying the black paint. Even so, he did not get first place as competition there was very strong. The car I am working is owned by a collector who is considering doing his in black rather than the jewel beige it came with and I am araid Greg's car will make his mind up for him.

Barry'd in Studes

55s
05-07-2008, 11:37 AM
I'm in the PH register and I own a nice white Packard Hawk too.

ALL persons think it looks very NEAT. Add in the leather seats, the supercharged engine, the armrest pads and the golden fins and you have a real head turner.

I just wish that people wouldn't touch the gold foil on the fins all the time - they seem to have some built-in hand magnets.

satdoc2
05-07-2008, 11:42 AM
Aa year or so ago my son emailed me some pictures of a PH that was in dry storeage in Houston. It looked factory new.
Allen

Roscomacaw
05-07-2008, 11:43 AM
In the 70s - when I worked in the resto/investment place where we sold Mercedes 500/540Ks, Duesenbergs, Bugattis and the like, the other folks working there snickered and teased me about my "beer" diet of lowly Studebakers while I was daily immersed in the "champagne" of automobiles (we sold new Aston Martins too!). But I didn't let it deter me at all! I was SO PROUD when I first hauled my 58 Packard wagon into our shop one weekend to work on it. OH - the disparaging remarks from the others there![}:)] Didn't care then - don't care now.[^]

Miscreant Studebaker nut in California's central valley.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President two door

BobPalma
05-07-2008, 11:44 AM
quote:Originally posted by MikeW

I maintain the roster of surviving Packard Hawks. I currently have 249 listed as still surviving. These range from beautifully restored cars, probably less than 75 to bucket cases that will take a lot of love to bring back. I would guess that 249, and this is no doubt not all, of 588 built is a fantastic survival rate. I am unsure if any other S/P product equals this.

Mike


:) Agreed; 249 is more than fantastic, it is an astonishing survival rate for a 50-year old model. Frank Ambrogio has been working to document extant 1956 Golden Hawks much longer, yet he has documented barely 500 of just over 4,000 built.

It would be interesting to know if 1964 Daytona convertibles approach that survival rate...but, AFAIK, no one is maintaining a roster of them. It's possible, because it was known less than a year after the first 1964 convertible was manufactured, that 1964 would be the last convertible model year. This gave impetus to Studebaker enthusiasts to save them before they had deteriorated badly.

Also, Mike, you are to be commended for so aggresively pursuing Packard Hawk documentation as to survivors and otherwise extant cars. Good work! :)BP

8E45E
05-07-2008, 01:14 PM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

It would be interesting to know if 1964 Daytona convertibles approach that survival rate...but, AFAIK, no one is maintaining a roster of them. It's possible, because it was known less than a year after the first 1964 convertible was manufactured, that 1964 would be the last convertible model year. This gave impetus to Studebaker enthusiasts to save them before they had deteriorated badly.



Wake UP, Bob!!:) Didn't you know our TW Editor, Art Unger is keep a roster of Hamilton Built 1964 convertibles??[:0] Maybe its time for him to do an update, since the last one appeared in 1981, I think it was....

Craig

MikeW
05-07-2008, 02:08 PM
Thanks for the kind words, Bob.
I understand those who don't like the looks of the Packard Hawks but what I don't understand is why they would criticize those who do. But I guess its like the show or drive controversy. I don't care to show my cars. I bought them to drive but I respect those who do get enjoyment out of winning a trophy. In the same way I like to discover the history of a car so that naturally translated into trying to find how many have survived.
By the way this is what I call Mom with Child. LOL

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb142/MikeW_021/3658Packards1.jpg

Mike
www.packardhawk.com

BobPalma
05-07-2008, 02:26 PM
quote:Originally posted by MikeW

Thanks for the kind words, Bob.
I understand those who don't like the looks of the Packard Hawks but what I don't understand is why they would criticize those who do. But I guess its like the show or drive controversy. I don't care to show my cars. I bought them to drive but I respect those who do get enjoyment out of winning a trophy. In the same way I like to discover the history of a car so that naturally translated into trying to find how many have survived.
By the way this is what I call Mom with Child. LOL

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb142/MikeW_021/3658Packards1.jpg

Mike
www.packardhawk.com


:) Indeed, Mike. Actually, your opinion counts double, as evidenced by your signature photo, since you also have a "real" [:0] Packard! (So do I, of course; a 1956 Clipper Super hardtop.) :DBP

BobPalma
05-07-2008, 02:28 PM
quote:Originally posted by 8E45E


quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

It would be interesting to know if 1964 Daytona convertibles approach that survival rate...but, AFAIK, no one is maintaining a roster of them. It's possible, because it was known less than a year after the first 1964 convertible was manufactured, that 1964 would be the last convertible model year. This gave impetus to Studebaker enthusiasts to save them before they had deteriorated badly.



Wake UP, Bob!!:) Didn't you know our TW Editor, Art Unger is keep a roster of Hamilton Built 1964 convertibles??[:0] Maybe its time for him to do an update, since the last one appeared in 1981, I think it was....

Craig


:) Yeah, Craig; I agree. There wouldn't be anything premature about having an update once every generation! :D:DBP

STEWDI
05-07-2008, 07:49 PM
That is a very surprising survival rate! Glad to see it. Now that we know that there's "lots" of them, I, be able to pick up one real cheap.;)

Fred Fox put forward in a TW article that perhaps 50% of "64 Hawks were still on four wheels. Sounds quite plausible.

Gary, what do you think the rate of horse-drawn Stude vehicles is? We REALLY DO need a roster for them.

Roger "153624" Hill

55 Champion
47 M-5
Izzer Buggy
Junior Wagon

mbstude
05-07-2008, 08:11 PM
quote:But I didn't let it deter me at all! I was SO PROUD when I first hauled my 58 Packard wagon into our shop one weekend to work on it.

And as you know, it still survives here in Jawjuh. [^]



I really like the Packard Hawks. 'Have since I first seen one in April of 2000, at the Southern Nationals in Memphis, TN. Didn't have a clue as to what it was, me being only 10 years old, but I sure found out quick. [8D] Had a little bit of a thing for them since. :)

There was a rather ratty one in South Bend last summer, I saw it in the parking lot of the motel we were staying at. I could tell that it was definitely a driver, and the owner really was enjoying it. I liked seeing that car more than the 1st place one that was there. :D

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/avatar-9.jpg

Lark289
05-07-2008, 08:27 PM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

:) From the RM/Scottsdale Auction Report in the June 2008 Hemmings Motor News comes the following enlightenment.

The red 1958 Packard Hawk that sold for a whopping $74,250 in January was described as a #2/Restored Car.

The text accompanying the write-up about this car concluded thus: "These ugly ducklings have long been shunned by Packard and Studebaker collectors alike, so the enthusiastic bidding here was something of a surprise."

You learn the darndest "facts" [:0] when you read the general collector-car press! :DBP


Never believe what you read in the press! This proves it!


Ready for a trip to the beach!

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u36/Lark289/StudeRamblerPic.jpg

barnlark
05-07-2008, 09:45 PM
Are there any pictures of this Packard Hawk from Scottsdale? I would love to see some pics if possible. The red one recently with the vinyl interior went for a good price, too, if I recall. That was a really pretty car. They couldn't have made many of those fiberglass parts. Does anyone make those tough to find parts for that car to help restore them?

barnlark
05-07-2008, 09:53 PM
quote:Originally posted by satdoc2

Aa year or so ago my son emailed me some pictures of a PH that was in dry storeage in Houston. It looked factory new.
Allen
Hey, dig that email out and share them!