Brakes: Brake issues with 2R11

[DaveB]

I have a 1951 2R11 that appears to have a ghost in the brake system. My issue is the front right brake locks up every time when I start first start out, day or night. The first time I step on the brakes it locks up. The second time I step on the brakes, same thing. The third time not quite as bad, by the forth time everything seems to be working ok. The brakes work normally for the rest of the day.
Over the past few years I have put new wheel cylinders on the front, rebuilt the rear wheel cyclnders, installed a new master brake cylinder, replaced the flexible brake lines as well as the metal ones have been replaced within the past 15 years. The system has been bled twice.
Any ideas what is causing the brake to lock up?

[Robert Crandall]

I get that problem at times. For me, each time turns out to be oil or grease on the shoes. When cold that one wheel will grab. Just as described in the original post, the problem is not noticeable after a few stops. However, the original poster has replaced the cylinders and does not mention finding anything on the shoes, so that may not be the case here.

[DaveB]

No grease or oil on shoes.

[DaveB]

Thanks. They are only two years old. Would there be an issue so soon?

[jnormanh]

Thanks. They are only two years old. Would there be an issue so soon?

Conventional brake fluid absorbs water from the air, so a tiny amount of brake fluid will cause rust on the brake drum. On a vehicle used regularly, the rust may be insignificant, and the heat from braking will evaporate the brake fluid and water. A vehicle which sits for weeks/months may develop rust on the brake drums from the tiniest amount of leaked brake fluid.

Pull the drum and look closely for the slightest bit of dampness. One small damp area is too much.

Two years? Who knows. I've seen new cylinders leak, and twenty year old ones sometimes never leak.

[DaveB]

Checked the cylinders, no leaks, no rust in the cylinders or on the drums. The truck is a daily driver- or was until I figure it out. Thanks for the suggestions

[PackardV8]

Thinking back and on this trip, first time out in the morning, my '55 E12 will sometimes do that stutter step once or twice; old trucks just have so many quirks, that one is so unobtrusive I don't even notice it any more.

Just for clarification, the brakes do release immediately when the pedal is released, correct?

jack vines

[jackb]

same symptoms with my 53' 2R6: turned drums, rebuilt cylinders, rebuilt self adjusters(working)...... left front wheel grabs upon 1st application after a short rest (several days)...exaggerated if humid or rain. By the 3rd brake application = completely gone...

[DieselJim]

My 3R12 did the same thing after setting over night. Would start moving and applying the brake for 2-3 seconds. Then it would stop normal.

[doofus]

If you didnt pull the rubber dust boots loose from the cylinders you could be missing a clue.BTDT luck Doofus

[DaveB]

The ghostbusters may have captured the ghost. I tried most of the suggestions offered and replaced or adjusted everything. The wheel cylinders were the last thing I looked at because they were only two years old. After removing the dust caps and depressing the pistons I noticed the pistons were hanging up. I removed the pistons and lubricated each. After reassembling the wheel cylinders, we went for a spin. I drove Baker for a couple of weeks prior winter hibernation and the brake goblins seemed to have gone the way of halloween.

[Mrs K Corbin]

mine has been doing this for years. I consider it normal, even after all new components and DOT 5 fluid. I may try this if i ever go back in there.

[jclary]

The ghostbusters may have captured the ghost. I tried most of the suggestions offered and replaced or adjusted everything. The wheel cylinders were the last thing I looked at because they were only two years old. After removing the dust caps and depressing the pistons I noticed the pistons were hanging up. I removed the pistons and lubricated each. After reassembling the wheel cylinders, we went for a spin. I drove Baker for a couple of weeks prior winter hibernation and the brake goblins seemed to have gone the way of halloween.

Well...I may be posting in a thread where the initial problem has been solved, but I have a question. As we know, there are all kinds of cautions given about what fluids and chemicals are compatible with brake components. So what did you use to lubricate the wheel cylinder pistons? I have had similar problems with binding pistons and on all the older drum brake systems I have ever owned, occasional rebuilding/replacing of wheel cylinders has been considered a common and routine occurrence. One thing I attribute my problems to is the environment in which my cars are kept. I have a drafty pole barn, live in a rather humid climate, and the vehicles are subject to moisture rising from the ground and condensate falling from the tin roof above.

Given these conditions, and the molecular reactions between the dissimilar metals of the brake components...In such conditions, I believe the brake components exist in an environment that promotes and accelerates oxidation/corrosion. A "brake-safe" lubricant (other than brake fluid) that could inhibit oxygen and thus corrosion could go a long way in extending the time interval between rebuilds.

[TWChamp]

Years ago wheel cylinder kits contained a capsule of liquid to lubricate the honed cylinder before reassembling.
I'm not sure what was in it, but I never had brake cylinder pistons corrode stuck in the past.
My last two 1950's have DOT 5 and have no problems so far.
The Land Cruiser only has DOT 5 since I rebuilt the brake system this spring, but my Champion was restored in the early 90's.

[PackardV8]

The corrosion of the aluminum piston in the iron cylinder has always been a problem. I was interested to note on some later IH trucks, the aluminum piston had been replaced by some sort of non-reactive phenolic material. That will never corrode.

jack vines