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avantibngrant
07-05-2018, 12:46 PM
My little champion runs just a little warmer than I like it to. I read that the 49 and up had an extra row of cores added and a different fan that turned a little faster? I am thinking of using a fan and water pump pulley from a 52 2R5 engine and wondering if that might help even with the current radiator. The fan is the same part number as the 49 to 54 Champion car, but the pulley is a different number I see. Would anyone know if the fan is bigger and by how much than the 47 and 48 fan? Seems like a little upgrade which might help some. Thanks.
Neil

jclary
07-05-2018, 03:05 PM
I own a '48 Business Coupe, but really don't know the details in comparison of the 47's & later versions as you describe above. I vaguely recall an article that mainly stated that changes between the 47 and 48 models were very minuscule at best.

Your post brings up further questions...how long have you had the car? When did high temperatures first begin to show up? Somehow, it has survived for 71 years without burning up.

Does your car have overdrive? What speed does the temperature begin to rise? Has the cooling system been cleaned/flushed? What is the coolant mixture ratio? Has someone added a bug screen, if so, how fine is the screen? (Too fine a screen can restrict air flow) Is the radiator fins clogged with bugs & dirt? How is ignition timing? Before I would begin changing components, I would do the easy checks first.

avantibngrant
07-05-2018, 03:40 PM
I own a '48 Business Coupe, but really don't know the details in comparison of the 47's & later versions as you describe above. I vaguely recall an article that mainly stated that changes between the 47 and 48 models were very minuscule at best.

Your post brings up further questions...how long have you had the car? When did high temperatures first begin to show up? Somehow, it has survived for 71 years without burning up.

Does your car have overdrive? What speed does the temperature begin to rise? Has the cooling system been cleaned/flushed? What is the coolant mixture ratio? Has someone added a bug screen, if so, how fine is the screen? (Too fine a screen can restrict air flow) Is the radiator fins clogged with bugs & dirt? How is ignition timing? Before I would begin changing components, I would do the easy checks first.

I have had it for 4 years now. It always fell between the two little marks on the heat gauge, but on a really hot day, it gets near the end mark at 55 mph but comes down at 50 a little. No bug screen and yes it has over drive. I just found my truck parts. If I swap out just the pulley I can increase the air flow by about 15% which I think I will try. It is 5.25" dia vs 6 on the car. I will squeeze the lower rad hose to make sure it has a spring in it too.

Greenstude
07-05-2018, 04:00 PM
I drove our 1947 Champion about 150 miles today, in temperatures ranging from 32 to 35 degrees Celsius (about 88 to 95 Farenheit), mostly on secondary roads but with some city driving and about 20 miles of highway driving at a steady 60 m.p.h. During the latter the heat gauge crept up close to 210 degree F; city stop-and-go it was around 190-200 F. On the secondary roads it stayed around 180 degrees F, which is where it would be on a cool spring day. Three years ago the radiator was recored --- before then the car had serious heating problems even though the rad looked really good, with very clean coolant. A lot of what looked like copper was actually corrosion and crud.

avantibngrant
07-05-2018, 05:43 PM
Good to hear from you Bill! That is just about what mine does. It creeps up close to the 210 on a really hot day at 55 or a little better. At 50 or so it comes back. I found my truck parts and the pulley on the water pump will speed the fan up by about 15 percent. I may indeed try that as it is very close to being acceptable as is as it has been like that for the 4 or so years I have been driving it. It is about 5.25" vs the about 6" pulley on it now. My cruise night I go to is about 30 miles each way, so it gets a good run.

nvonada
07-06-2018, 07:03 AM
Has your block ever been cleaned out? Every single gasket on my 41 was leaking so I pulled the engine and replaced them all. When I removed the freeze plugs I found this:
http://stude.vonadatech.com/images/Engine%20Pull/small/VT_20090509_3726.JPG
I got chunks of metal and casting wire out of there. I flushed out the radiator too but I think cleaning the block was the big improvement. Keep in mind that if you are driving the car a lot you are probably knocking things loose that have been collecting for 80 years.

Nathan

jackb
07-06-2018, 07:32 AM
Post #6 defies all snake oil remedies etc: fans, blowers, pulleys, etc.... I heard a while back that the diameter of the pulley(s) are factory engineered to eliminate resonance & belt noise and wear???

TWChamp
07-06-2018, 08:45 AM
Some people (especially Model A owners) think you should only use plain water, and not antifreeze.
That's fine if you want a mess like in #6 and you want your engine to rust from the inside out.

avantibngrant
07-07-2018, 09:27 AM
Has your block ever been cleaned out? Every single gasket on my 41 was leaking so I pulled the engine and replaced them all. When I removed the freeze plugs I found this:
http://stude.vonadatech.com/images/Engine%20Pull/small/VT_20090509_3726.JPG
I got chunks of metal and casting wire out of there. I flushed out the radiator too but I think cleaning the block was the big improvement. Keep in mind that if you are driving the car a lot you are probably knocking things loose that have been collecting for 80 years.

Nathan

No I have not. It may come to that, but it is not a major problem as it does not boil over and runs well. I am going to try the pulley change first I think.

avantibngrant
07-07-2018, 09:31 AM
Post #6 defies all snake oil remedies etc: fans, blowers, pulleys, etc.... I heard a while back that the diameter of the pulley(s) are factory engineered to eliminate resonance & belt noise and wear???

I think fan speed resulting from pulley changes is pretty standard stuff. Resonance in the fans speed - care would be taken to reduce it in the RPM range of the engine. increasing the fan speed by 15 percent would be in the range of driving the car not in overdrive which decreases the engine speed by 30 percent. It should be fine.

avantibngrant
09-04-2018, 08:21 PM
I think fan speed resulting from pulley changes is pretty standard stuff. Resonance in the fans speed - care would be taken to reduce it in the RPM range of the engine. increasing the fan speed by 15 percent would be in the range of driving the car not in overdrive which decreases the engine speed by 30 percent. It should be fine.

My fan belt started to come a part, so I made the change to the truck smaller pulley and the truck fan belt. It does seem to keep the heat gauge down some and the oil pressure just above the 40 instead of just below it running down the road. I won't likely really see the effect until next year when it gets really hot. 15 percent more air and more water flow can only help I think.