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What now? She threw a rod -- 1951 Champion

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  • Engine: What now? She threw a rod -- 1951 Champion

    After she spend 6 months in the shop with myriad issues, it turns out that the BIG ONE was still a surprise in the making. A couple of days after retrieving my 1951 Champion Regal Convertible, she threw a rod right through the engine block. Vern Ediger in Kansas has helped me find a 1955 engine to replace the 1951 -- but I would appreciate the advice of anyone who has gone through a similar replacement. Will likely have the engine completely rebuilt once I get it.

    Your advice and thoughts are welcome!

  • #2
    I believe the55 engines were 185 cu.inch displacement so it should be better than 170" motor.my 1st. Car was a 51 convertible with a 55 engine,cannot recall any issues as they are about-in.

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    • #3
      Just don't toss the old engine until well after the new one is in and running.... You'd be amazed at what you can still use and may need to.

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      • #4
        From me, not much advice (far more true experienced mechanics here to trust) but, some thoughts. I've been around these engines for decades, and can count all the tales of one of these little six cylinder engines "grenading" on one hand and still have fingers left over. So, in the absence of more information, "six months in the shop," has me wondering if it was six months of neglect?

        Although these little engines are considered obsolete technology, they were tough little beasts that often outlived the vehicles they originally powered. For one to send a rod through the block, I suspect some neglect and serious abuse sometime in its past. I have one that has lasted over forty years, even after I took it apart, put it back together and have run it many miles at interstate speeds. I'm not all that great of a mechanic now, and was much worse then!

        If the 185 engine you are considering checks out, you might not have to rebuild it. Depending on a good mechanic (that might be you), it would be wise to fabricate a little work station to fire it up, and run it to evaluate it. With a good tune up, fresh oil, and a mechanic's stethoscope, you might just luck up and find it OK. Of course, with the experience you had with the old one, I wouldn't blame you for going forward with a complete rebuild.

        Those are my comments. The closest thing I'll offer as advice, is if possible, try to get everything on that replacement engine as complete as you can. Especially the bellhousing. That will save you the trouble of the "dial-in" to match it up with the engine.

        I hope you don't think I'm too harsh about my "neglect" comment above, but not knowing the full details, and as rugged as these engines are...one has to wonder. Best wishes for a good recovery from this setback. You have one of the collectible cars worth the effort.
        John Clary
        Greer, SC

        SDC member since 1975

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        • #5
          My thought is simply this...don't lose heart. It's 56 years old. I had an engine blow up too. After getting things finally settled down the car / hobby have been very enjoyable. It will no doubt stress you and impress you if you stick with it. Remember it's just a hobby. Things get will get done...roll with it if you can. You ain't alone.

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          • #6
            they were tough little beasts that often outlived the vehicles they originally powered.
            Agree, the Champion is a tough little beast and will survive most forms of neglect. The reason they are long lived is the engineers put in enough bearing area and then limited the horsepower so it can't hurt itself. That the one in question threw a rod indicates very long term use and/or serious abuse. Rods don't let go as a matter of normal use.

            If the 185 engine you are considering checks out, you might not have to rebuild it.
            Agree, but expect most used Champions to smoke more than is considered socially acceptable today. Every one I work on has worn valve guides and worn lifter bores. A compression test and a leak-down test will give indications of ring and valve sealing.

            jack vines
            PackardV8

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            • #7
              You have to get the special oil pan that was used to fit the 185 in a 1951.
              I have not researched this but the oil pan is a concern.
              I will try to post what I find in my old files.
              Robert Kapteyn

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              • #8
                Any thoughts of upgrading to a 259 or 289? Might be a nice way to go if you like driving the car and plan on any longer trips. Should be able to pick up a complete engine and trans combo from someone.
                sigpic1966 Daytona (The First One)
                1950 Champion Convertible
                1950 Champion 4Dr
                1955 President 2 Dr Hardtop
                1957 Thunderbird

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by rkapteyn View Post
                  You have to get the special oil pan that was used to fit the 185 in a 1951.
                  I have not researched this but the oil pan is a concern.
                  I will try to post what I find in my old files.
                  Robert Kapteyn
                  Bob, I'm not sure, either, but I think 1951 and 1955 oil pans are very similar. The 1950 Champions have a different oil pan, due to different steering linkage.
                  John
                  1950 Champion
                  W-3 4 Dr. Sedan
                  Holdrege NE

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                  • #10
                    Thanks, all, for your guidance. I am not my own mechanic, but I have a trusted shop that works on a number of vintage vehicles. They know what they're doing -- although they don't work on many Studebakers.

                    The "six months in the shop" addressed a number of problems with my little gem, but NOT the engine. Ironically, bought the car in January and was driving on its first trip and she overheated. So after towing her to the mechanic, I found out that all of the original 66-year old wiring was bad. Cloth insulation was frayed throughout. So the first move was a new wiring harness from Lark Works (thanks to those who made that suggestion, here.) That took a couple of months to complete.

                    Click image for larger version

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                    She is a convertible, and we found that one of the screw jacks had "frozen" (rust? mechanical failure?) -- so the top had to be reworked. Bob Palma suggested that she be retrofitted with custom hydraulics. So we did that. Jim Turner talked me into new disc brakes for the front wheels. So a Turner Brake Kit went on (but not before a lot of adjustments since the Kit wasn't really designed for a Champion. Spacers had to be introduced, and each lug bolt had to be lengthened. More time, more $$$.)

                    The radio was rebuilt to look old, but play new (with AM, FM, Bluetooth, USB), and she got halogen headlights. Members here suggested Coker Tire as a good resource, so she has new whitewall radials, replacing the ancient bias plys that were still on her. I only live an hour from Studebaker International in Greenfield, IN, so they have seen me many times for miscellaneous things like a used turn signal switch, and a NOS glove compartment light (added with the new wiring harness.)

                    Recently, she got an all-new canvas top -- installed by a Trim Shop near the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Now she has the same color top (tan) to match up with her Comanche Red exterior -- just like that week after Christmas 1950 when she left the South Bend factory.

                    A "buggy" shifting assembly in the steering column was fixed by dissecting the column and ordering up new parts to replace what had simply worn out over 66 years.

                    In a couple of weeks, I've decided to make a trip to Kansas to meet Vern Ediger and see his collection of 150 junked Studebakers -- and also to pick up a used crossbar brace (goes behind the engine and in front of the transmission). Mine is very badly bent -- suggesting a hard landing or driving over something big at some point in the past. Vern did warn me about the oil pan. He's got the 1955 engine and related parts on a skid ready for me to pick up.

                    I appreciate the comment about just "rolling with the punches," because it is a hobby. My Studebaker, though, will also become my daily driver for my 3.5 mile commute to work.

                    So we did a lot over the past six months -- but we hadn't gotten to the engine itself, until now. I think I will have it rebuilt just to make certain that once it's in, it works as it should.

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                    You guys are great! Thanks for the encouragement. It seemed like a dark tunnel when this first happened a few weeks ago, but I know my mechanic and I can work through it.

                    Not sure why the "portrait" photos post sideways ("landscape") on this forum -- but hopefully you're reading on a laptop and can click on the photos and turn the screen!
                    Last edited by 1951Champion; 09-12-2017, 06:38 PM.

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                    • #11
                      I'd use this as an opportunity to drop a modern V6 in that bad boy, and ease on down the road. LOL

                      Seriously, I once saw a 50 or 51 that a father & son had installed a Toyota engine and transmission in, and it was real sweet. They calimed it got mid 20s MPG, and kept up with traffic very well.

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                      • #12
                        If I had an unmolested 51 convertible I would keep it as original as possible. If you are reusing the bell housing from your old engine make sure your mechanic centers it properly with a dial indicator. There are lots of posts on this subject and it should be covered in the shop manual as well.

                        Nathan
                        _______________
                        http://stude.vonadatech.com
                        https://jeepster.vonadatech.com

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                        • #13
                          I bought the car because it is a Studebaker, and I do want to stick with a Studebaker engine (although I did give passing thought to finding an old Civic Hybrid or Prius to lift an engine from...)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 1951Champion View Post
                            I bought the car because it is a Studebaker, and I do want to stick with a Studebaker engine (although I did give passing thought to finding an old Civic Hybrid or Prius to lift an engine from...)
                            ......

                            Actually, during the years it took me to restore my '48 Business Coupe, I toyed with the idea of installing a "Metric" V6. However, especially in this part of the country, I probably would have had to padlock the hood closed.

                            Either that, or move to the west coast, where our fellow member "48skyliner" seems to have set the "gold standard" for pulling that off.
                            John Clary
                            Greer, SC

                            SDC member since 1975

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                            • #15
                              The special oil pan is not required for putting a 185 into a 51. The regular 185 oil pan should do just fine. The special oil pan is for putting a 185 into a 50 Champion.
                              Last edited by RadioRoy; 09-15-2017, 08:23 AM.
                              RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.


                              10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                              4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                              5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon

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