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BobPalma
01-16-2008, 07:34 AM
:) I strongly suspect that is due to the number of General Motors vehicles assembled in Canadian plants and sold in the United States. (Does any Japan-originated manufacturer even have an assembly plant in Canada? Not being funny; I really don't know!) [8D] BP

BobPalma
01-16-2008, 07:34 AM
:) I strongly suspect that is due to the number of General Motors vehicles assembled in Canadian plants and sold in the United States. (Does any Japan-originated manufacturer even have an assembly plant in Canada? Not being funny; I really don't know!) [8D] BP

8E45E
01-16-2008, 07:43 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

:) I strongly suspect that is due to the number of General Motors vehicles assembled in Canadian plants and sold in the United States. (Does any Japan-originated manufacturer even have an assembly plant in Canada? Not being funny; I really don't know!) [8D] BP


Yes, Bob, there's a Toyota plant in Cambridge, Ontario, as well as a joint venture GM/Suzuki assembly plant (CAMI www.cami.ca) in Ingersoll.

Craig

8E45E
01-16-2008, 07:43 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

:) I strongly suspect that is due to the number of General Motors vehicles assembled in Canadian plants and sold in the United States. (Does any Japan-originated manufacturer even have an assembly plant in Canada? Not being funny; I really don't know!) [8D] BP


Yes, Bob, there's a Toyota plant in Cambridge, Ontario, as well as a joint venture GM/Suzuki assembly plant (CAMI www.cami.ca) in Ingersoll.

Craig

ClaymoreWW
01-16-2008, 08:24 AM
I know that many who read these forums promote Buy-American, including when purchasing cars. Of course, most Studebakers available here were made in the USA - probably at the 100% content level (yes, I know about the Canadian-built cars - hence, the "most").

In the course of my work this week, I was told some interesting bullet points:

As US government procurement officials analyze items for compliance with the Buy-American Act, they have found that NO CARS meet the "made in America" criteria. Some, however meet the "Assembled in America" level. These criteria involve combinations of parts manufactured in the US and overall assembly in the US.

The highest ranking cars:
Toyota
Honda
Subaru

The worst (lowest rank) "Assembled in America" manufacturer:
General Motors

There's some food for thought.

--george


http://www.teamwetworks.com/claymore/larkkey.jpg

BobPalma
01-16-2008, 08:32 AM
:) Thanks, Craig. Is product from either of those plants shipped to The United States, or is it all for domestic [Canadian] consumption? [?] BP

BobPalma
01-16-2008, 08:32 AM
:) Thanks, Craig. Is product from either of those plants shipped to The United States, or is it all for domestic [Canadian] consumption? [?] BP

8E45E
01-16-2008, 08:36 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

:) Thanks, Craig. Is product from either of those plants shipped to The United States, or is it all for domestic [Canadian] consumption? [?] BP


Check out the CAMI website. It has a few figures of where their prodution goes.

Craig

8E45E
01-16-2008, 08:36 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

:) Thanks, Craig. Is product from either of those plants shipped to The United States, or is it all for domestic [Canadian] consumption? [?] BP


Check out the CAMI website. It has a few figures of where their prodution goes.

Craig

JDP
01-16-2008, 09:10 AM
When I first opened my stereo store, I always had a few customers that insisted on American made electronics. Most of the time, they were asking for a American name attached to a product made in the far east. i.e. Jensen, RCA and the like. Back then, the Japanese even tried to sound "American". Kenwood was so named by combining Kenmore and Sherwood. Later, a Japanese name became a sales tool and high end units came from Fujitsu, and others.
I spent many years working with Japanese companies and found out why they were successful. They would come in my store, or fly me to meeting to ask what I liked about their product, what they could do better and so on. They do the same with their cars, they have design centers in the US that design cars for the US market. GM has finally caught and is now very successful in China with a Buick built just for that market, but for years, they would not even offer a right hand drive car for export.
Say what you will about foreign cars, but they pushed the US makers to build better cars and they now do.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

JDP
01-16-2008, 09:10 AM
When I first opened my stereo store, I always had a few customers that insisted on American made electronics. Most of the time, they were asking for a American name attached to a product made in the far east. i.e. Jensen, RCA and the like. Back then, the Japanese even tried to sound "American". Kenwood was so named by combining Kenmore and Sherwood. Later, a Japanese name became a sales tool and high end units came from Fujitsu, and others.
I spent many years working with Japanese companies and found out why they were successful. They would come in my store, or fly me to meeting to ask what I liked about their product, what they could do better and so on. They do the same with their cars, they have design centers in the US that design cars for the US market. GM has finally caught and is now very successful in China with a Buick built just for that market, but for years, they would not even offer a right hand drive car for export.
Say what you will about foreign cars, but they pushed the US makers to build better cars and they now do.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

bonehead007
01-16-2008, 09:17 AM
I worked , back in the late 70's, for Panasonic in Secaucus NJ..One day they were having an electronics sale in their R&D dept..There were all diff makes & models of other manufacturers equip, tvs, vcrs, etc.. When I asked one of the dept employees why they had other makes he replied, Panasonic buys them, pulls them apart and sees how they can improve them..

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q189/bonehead007/MVC-021F.jpg

New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together

bonehead007
01-16-2008, 09:17 AM
I worked , back in the late 70's, for Panasonic in Secaucus NJ..One day they were having an electronics sale in their R&D dept..There were all diff makes & models of other manufacturers equip, tvs, vcrs, etc.. When I asked one of the dept employees why they had other makes he replied, Panasonic buys them, pulls them apart and sees how they can improve them..

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q189/bonehead007/MVC-021F.jpg

New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together

Bill Pressler
01-16-2008, 09:21 AM
quote:Originally posted by JDP
Say what you will about foreign cars, but they pushed the US makers to build better cars and they now do.



I will agree that the Japanese manufacturers' successes resulted in better quality in domestics, but I long for the days of greater model and body-style choices, more color and trim level choices in and out, and being able to select options individually. All this went away as the domestics began aping the Japanese automakers.

It used to be that you never saw an exact duplicate of a car anywhere, with all the color and option choices. Now you can see exact duplicates sitting next to each other at the same car dealer.

I do miss those things about the old domestic days.

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1

Bill Pressler
01-16-2008, 09:21 AM
quote:Originally posted by JDP
Say what you will about foreign cars, but they pushed the US makers to build better cars and they now do.



I will agree that the Japanese manufacturers' successes resulted in better quality in domestics, but I long for the days of greater model and body-style choices, more color and trim level choices in and out, and being able to select options individually. All this went away as the domestics began aping the Japanese automakers.

It used to be that you never saw an exact duplicate of a car anywhere, with all the color and option choices. Now you can see exact duplicates sitting next to each other at the same car dealer.

I do miss those things about the old domestic days.

Bill Pressler
Kent, OH
'63 Lark Daytona Skytop R1

63larkcustom
01-16-2008, 09:34 AM
Back in the early 90s, I was a resin broker (plastics buyer) for Thomson Consumer Electronics (GE, RCA, Proscan) shortly after GE spun the Consumer elecronics business to the French (TCE). At that time, vry little product was made here. I used to buy bulk resins from china and ship in smaller quantities to manufacturers in Indiana who stamped out the remote control keypads and cases. My job was sent to Juarez Mexico as was most of the dept around 1995. From what I hear, they are now moving that dept to Hong Kong. Sad to see so many companies doing that. We cannot compete with the far east cost structure. The workers are working for less than a dollar a day. I personally try not to buy anything that comes from china/korea/vietnam.

63larkcustom
01-16-2008, 09:34 AM
Back in the early 90s, I was a resin broker (plastics buyer) for Thomson Consumer Electronics (GE, RCA, Proscan) shortly after GE spun the Consumer elecronics business to the French (TCE). At that time, vry little product was made here. I used to buy bulk resins from china and ship in smaller quantities to manufacturers in Indiana who stamped out the remote control keypads and cases. My job was sent to Juarez Mexico as was most of the dept around 1995. From what I hear, they are now moving that dept to Hong Kong. Sad to see so many companies doing that. We cannot compete with the far east cost structure. The workers are working for less than a dollar a day. I personally try not to buy anything that comes from china/korea/vietnam.

curt
01-16-2008, 09:35 AM
It's hard to get me into an American Brand Show room. The last American brand I bought new was like a sick person, constant care and high cost in the repair shop. I now have a car with a 100,000 mile guarantee. No problems at 93,000 miles. My american car had a 30,000 mile guarantee time period, that time period was way to short to solve the car's problems.

curt
01-16-2008, 09:35 AM
It's hard to get me into an American Brand Show room. The last American brand I bought new was like a sick person, constant care and high cost in the repair shop. I now have a car with a 100,000 mile guarantee. No problems at 93,000 miles. My american car had a 30,000 mile guarantee time period, that time period was way to short to solve the car's problems.

JDP
01-16-2008, 09:36 AM
They don't work for "less then a dollar" a day in the far east anymore, and wages are rising faster then in the US.

"How do wage rates elsewhere compare? The differences are striking. The 2002 edition of The World Almanac notes that for the United States, total compensation, including benefits, was $19.86 an hour in 2000, up from $14.91 in 1990, (according to data on hourly compensation costs in selected countries for manufacturing production workers.) Total compensation in Japan was $22 an hour in 2000, while South Korea was $8.13, China was $6.17."

(that was 7 years ago)

I spoke to a Chinese millionaire's wife while playing blackjack and it's not just lower wages, it's automation. Their plants are seldom over 10 years old, lots of robots, and fewer workers. The Chinese have the fastest growing middle class in the world, many buying new cars, including more then a few from GM's Chinese plants. Like it or not, we're living in a world economy with GM, and the rest building and selling cars worldwide.


JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

JDP
01-16-2008, 09:36 AM
They don't work for "less then a dollar" a day in the far east anymore, and wages are rising faster then in the US.

"How do wage rates elsewhere compare? The differences are striking. The 2002 edition of The World Almanac notes that for the United States, total compensation, including benefits, was $19.86 an hour in 2000, up from $14.91 in 1990, (according to data on hourly compensation costs in selected countries for manufacturing production workers.) Total compensation in Japan was $22 an hour in 2000, while South Korea was $8.13, China was $6.17."

(that was 7 years ago)

I spoke to a Chinese millionaire's wife while playing blackjack and it's not just lower wages, it's automation. Their plants are seldom over 10 years old, lots of robots, and fewer workers. The Chinese have the fastest growing middle class in the world, many buying new cars, including more then a few from GM's Chinese plants. Like it or not, we're living in a world economy with GM, and the rest building and selling cars worldwide.


JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

Scott
01-16-2008, 10:12 AM
Wait a minute there! What about Tesla Motors? They are certainly assembled in the U.S. (New Mexico).

Scott
01-16-2008, 10:12 AM
Wait a minute there! What about Tesla Motors? They are certainly assembled in the U.S. (New Mexico).

dictator27
01-16-2008, 11:15 AM
Honda has a plant in Alliston, Ontario that produces all Civics, Civic Coupes, Acura MDX's and Ridgelines for North America as well as the Canada only Acura CSX.

Has anyone out there ever read The Reckoning by David Halberstam? It is an interesting acount of how the Japanese manufacturers established themselves in North America.

Terry Godkin
Surrey, British Columbia
1927 Dictator Custom sedan
1954 Commander Starliner
(both Canadian assembled)

dictator27
01-16-2008, 11:15 AM
Honda has a plant in Alliston, Ontario that produces all Civics, Civic Coupes, Acura MDX's and Ridgelines for North America as well as the Canada only Acura CSX.

Has anyone out there ever read The Reckoning by David Halberstam? It is an interesting acount of how the Japanese manufacturers established themselves in North America.

Terry Godkin
Surrey, British Columbia
1927 Dictator Custom sedan
1954 Commander Starliner
(both Canadian assembled)

BobPalma
01-16-2008, 11:29 AM
quote:Originally posted by dictator27

Honda has a plant in Alliston, Ontario that produces all Civics, Civic Coupes, Acura MDX's and Ridgelines for North America as well as the Canada only Acura CSX.

Has anyone out there ever read The Reckoning by David Halberstam? It is an interesting acount of how the Japanese manufacturers established themselves in North America.

Terry Godkin
Surrey, British Columbia
1927 Dictator Custom sedan
1954 Commander Starliner
(both Canadian assembled)


:) Yes, Terry; that was a good book! I've still got it around here somewhere. It's been awhile. BP

BobPalma
01-16-2008, 11:29 AM
quote:Originally posted by dictator27

Honda has a plant in Alliston, Ontario that produces all Civics, Civic Coupes, Acura MDX's and Ridgelines for North America as well as the Canada only Acura CSX.

Has anyone out there ever read The Reckoning by David Halberstam? It is an interesting acount of how the Japanese manufacturers established themselves in North America.

Terry Godkin
Surrey, British Columbia
1927 Dictator Custom sedan
1954 Commander Starliner
(both Canadian assembled)


:) Yes, Terry; that was a good book! I've still got it around here somewhere. It's been awhile. BP

63larkcustom
01-16-2008, 11:29 AM
They've made progress in wages significantly. In 1993 I saw the analysis for shutting down the RCA Marion Indiana tube plant. The workers in Marion were averaging $18.30/hr. The labor in the Singapore plant was $.32/hr. As a businessman, where would you produce your product? Needless to say, that was part of the demise of american manufacturing.

63larkcustom
01-16-2008, 11:29 AM
They've made progress in wages significantly. In 1993 I saw the analysis for shutting down the RCA Marion Indiana tube plant. The workers in Marion were averaging $18.30/hr. The labor in the Singapore plant was $.32/hr. As a businessman, where would you produce your product? Needless to say, that was part of the demise of american manufacturing.

nels
01-16-2008, 11:29 AM
I'm afraid the only way the Big Three can compete at this point is to only assemble in this country. People are quick to blame the UAW for all the problems in our own country's auto business but I really don't think they are the problem. As a former member of management at Ford, I really believe the UAW worker at this day in age is a much more efficient worker than 90% of the American work force. Ford, GM and Chrysler have a difficult time because their foriegn competition have been producing out of this country for their entire existance and still are. They pretty much manufacture over seas and assemble over here. Not only is China's, work force, for example, paid very little but their manufacturing facilities do not have to comply with US regulations on safety, air polution, soil polution etc. The odds are stacked against this country's manufacturing base. Jobs are leaving by the thousands.
Maybe we should give the Big Three another chance, after all, it might be our childrens future.

nels
01-16-2008, 11:29 AM
I'm afraid the only way the Big Three can compete at this point is to only assemble in this country. People are quick to blame the UAW for all the problems in our own country's auto business but I really don't think they are the problem. As a former member of management at Ford, I really believe the UAW worker at this day in age is a much more efficient worker than 90% of the American work force. Ford, GM and Chrysler have a difficult time because their foriegn competition have been producing out of this country for their entire existance and still are. They pretty much manufacture over seas and assemble over here. Not only is China's, work force, for example, paid very little but their manufacturing facilities do not have to comply with US regulations on safety, air polution, soil polution etc. The odds are stacked against this country's manufacturing base. Jobs are leaving by the thousands.
Maybe we should give the Big Three another chance, after all, it might be our childrens future.

Dick Steinkamp
01-16-2008, 11:43 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

:) I strongly suspect that is due to the number of General Motors vehicles assembled in Canadian plants and sold in the United States.


Most GM pickups are assembled in Mexico (except for the one Indiana plant).

Lots of folks wouldn't think of buying a Toyota truck because it isn't "American", but have no problem buying a GM truck.

The Toyota truck is built in the US by Americans using mostly US sourced parts. The GM truck is built in Mexico with mostly non-US sourced parts. When that is pointed out, the "buy American crowd" then says..."but on the Toyota truck, all the profit goes back to Japan and the profit on the GM truck goes to the US". True, but the profit on the Toyota is less (much less) than 10% of the price. The rest (90+%) goes to American workers and parts suppliers. On the GM truck, virtually nothing goes to American workers and little to American parts suppliers, but the profit does go...wait a minute, I don't think there is a profit :(.

I think Americans had a very hard time dealing with the change in the 1800's from an agrarian based economy to an industrial based economy...just as we are having a hard time today in the change from an industrial based economy to a service and technology based one. I personally think we are smart enough and strong enough to pull it off.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
01-16-2008, 11:43 AM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

:) I strongly suspect that is due to the number of General Motors vehicles assembled in Canadian plants and sold in the United States.


Most GM pickups are assembled in Mexico (except for the one Indiana plant).

Lots of folks wouldn't think of buying a Toyota truck because it isn't "American", but have no problem buying a GM truck.

The Toyota truck is built in the US by Americans using mostly US sourced parts. The GM truck is built in Mexico with mostly non-US sourced parts. When that is pointed out, the "buy American crowd" then says..."but on the Toyota truck, all the profit goes back to Japan and the profit on the GM truck goes to the US". True, but the profit on the Toyota is less (much less) than 10% of the price. The rest (90+%) goes to American workers and parts suppliers. On the GM truck, virtually nothing goes to American workers and little to American parts suppliers, but the profit does go...wait a minute, I don't think there is a profit :(.

I think Americans had a very hard time dealing with the change in the 1800's from an agrarian based economy to an industrial based economy...just as we are having a hard time today in the change from an industrial based economy to a service and technology based one. I personally think we are smart enough and strong enough to pull it off.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

Chucks Stude
01-16-2008, 11:45 AM
I have seen some of the GM offerings that are made in Mexico.

Chucks Stude
01-16-2008, 11:45 AM
I have seen some of the GM offerings that are made in Mexico.

raprice
01-16-2008, 12:02 PM
As someone pointed out, we're living in a world economy, whether we like it or not. It's not necessarily a bad thing.
It's interesting to note that a number of Japanese car companies are building their cars in the U.S., using parts made in the U.S. and built by American workers. I do believe that there are now more foreign cars built in the U.S. than American cars built in the U.S.
A very positive result of all this Japanese competition is the quality of American cars has vastly improved. Now, whether it's too late for the American makers is anybody's guess. I hope it's not too late.
Anyway, my wife and I just recently bought our first non-American car. We've always bought only American. Anyway, we bought a Honda CR-V and it's a fantasic car. Very well built.
Rog

'59 Lark VI Regal Hardtop

raprice
01-16-2008, 12:02 PM
As someone pointed out, we're living in a world economy, whether we like it or not. It's not necessarily a bad thing.
It's interesting to note that a number of Japanese car companies are building their cars in the U.S., using parts made in the U.S. and built by American workers. I do believe that there are now more foreign cars built in the U.S. than American cars built in the U.S.
A very positive result of all this Japanese competition is the quality of American cars has vastly improved. Now, whether it's too late for the American makers is anybody's guess. I hope it's not too late.
Anyway, my wife and I just recently bought our first non-American car. We've always bought only American. Anyway, we bought a Honda CR-V and it's a fantasic car. Very well built.
Rog

'59 Lark VI Regal Hardtop

61hawk
01-16-2008, 12:29 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

They don't work for "less then a dollar" a day in the far east anymore, and wages are rising faster then in the US.

"How do wage rates elsewhere compare? The differences are striking. The 2002 edition of The World Almanac notes that for the United States, total compensation, including benefits, was $19.86 an hour in 2000, up from $14.91 in 1990, (according to data on hourly compensation costs in selected countries for manufacturing production workers.) Total compensation in Japan was $22 an hour in 2000, while South Korea was $8.13, China was $6.17."

(that was 7 years ago)

I spoke to a Chinese millionaire's wife while playing blackjack and it's not just lower wages, it's automation. Their plants are seldom over 10 years old, lots of robots, and fewer workers. The Chinese have the fastest growing middle class in the world, many buying new cars, including more then a few from GM's Chinese plants. Like it or not, we're living in a world economy with GM, and the rest building and selling cars worldwide.


JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)




Plus you have to factor in cost of living... just like here in the United States. Would you rather make $100/day in SmallTown, Nebraska or in New York City?

There was a television program on the shipping industry a couple years ago where they compared the US ports to those overseas. A cargo container in the US gets handled (and lost) by about a dozen people from the time it's unloaded off the ship to the time it's loaded on a truck. In Japan, it's handled by one person... the crane operator (and the crane is automated/robotic). Everything is scanned and stored electronically. They know exactly where Cargo Container #421B54US is at any given moment. They ran the same test in the US port and half of the containers could not be found in less than an hour... they had to send guys out looking for it in stacks and stacks of containers. They said we could easily have the same container handling systems over here, but the unions did everything they could to stop it... because it would put those $40/hr. dockworkers out of business.

Lee

61hawk
01-16-2008, 12:29 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

They don't work for "less then a dollar" a day in the far east anymore, and wages are rising faster then in the US.

"How do wage rates elsewhere compare? The differences are striking. The 2002 edition of The World Almanac notes that for the United States, total compensation, including benefits, was $19.86 an hour in 2000, up from $14.91 in 1990, (according to data on hourly compensation costs in selected countries for manufacturing production workers.) Total compensation in Japan was $22 an hour in 2000, while South Korea was $8.13, China was $6.17."

(that was 7 years ago)

I spoke to a Chinese millionaire's wife while playing blackjack and it's not just lower wages, it's automation. Their plants are seldom over 10 years old, lots of robots, and fewer workers. The Chinese have the fastest growing middle class in the world, many buying new cars, including more then a few from GM's Chinese plants. Like it or not, we're living in a world economy with GM, and the rest building and selling cars worldwide.


JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)




Plus you have to factor in cost of living... just like here in the United States. Would you rather make $100/day in SmallTown, Nebraska or in New York City?

There was a television program on the shipping industry a couple years ago where they compared the US ports to those overseas. A cargo container in the US gets handled (and lost) by about a dozen people from the time it's unloaded off the ship to the time it's loaded on a truck. In Japan, it's handled by one person... the crane operator (and the crane is automated/robotic). Everything is scanned and stored electronically. They know exactly where Cargo Container #421B54US is at any given moment. They ran the same test in the US port and half of the containers could not be found in less than an hour... they had to send guys out looking for it in stacks and stacks of containers. They said we could easily have the same container handling systems over here, but the unions did everything they could to stop it... because it would put those $40/hr. dockworkers out of business.

Lee

Scott
01-16-2008, 01:20 PM
The USA just isn't best at making a lot of things anymore. It's sad, but true. Even Studebaker went to Canada - and that was probably a wise move since the SB plant was so horribly antiquated.

On the other hand, much of the rest of the world is profiting on what they learned from us way back when. That's good and bad, but really inevitable. The whole way products are made and marketed nowadays makes it too confusing to try to buy "American" most of the time. Americans are known for being smart and pragmatic, not stubborn and ignorant. I'd like to keep it that way. As long as a good product is out there most of us will buy it wherever it comes from. Hey, a lot of us or our parents bought Studebakers made in Canada.

Scott
01-16-2008, 01:20 PM
The USA just isn't best at making a lot of things anymore. It's sad, but true. Even Studebaker went to Canada - and that was probably a wise move since the SB plant was so horribly antiquated.

On the other hand, much of the rest of the world is profiting on what they learned from us way back when. That's good and bad, but really inevitable. The whole way products are made and marketed nowadays makes it too confusing to try to buy "American" most of the time. Americans are known for being smart and pragmatic, not stubborn and ignorant. I'd like to keep it that way. As long as a good product is out there most of us will buy it wherever it comes from. Hey, a lot of us or our parents bought Studebakers made in Canada.

8E45E
01-16-2008, 02:28 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

They don't work for "less then a dollar" a day in the far east anymore, and wages are rising faster then in the US.



Keep in mind its NOT just wages alone that drive up the cost of goods. There are utility costs as well. Any industry that utilizes a blast furnace, such as a foundry for engine blocks and chassis components or glass and vitreous china manufacturing, will have a HUGE bill at the end of the month!![:0] And no longer can we burn coal anymore to run these sources of extreme heat required to turn raw materials into product. "Over there", they can burn coal and other raw gasses without the EPA checking out their smokestacks regularly.

Craig

8E45E
01-16-2008, 02:28 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

They don't work for "less then a dollar" a day in the far east anymore, and wages are rising faster then in the US.



Keep in mind its NOT just wages alone that drive up the cost of goods. There are utility costs as well. Any industry that utilizes a blast furnace, such as a foundry for engine blocks and chassis components or glass and vitreous china manufacturing, will have a HUGE bill at the end of the month!![:0] And no longer can we burn coal anymore to run these sources of extreme heat required to turn raw materials into product. "Over there", they can burn coal and other raw gasses without the EPA checking out their smokestacks regularly.

Craig

8E45E
01-16-2008, 02:33 PM
quote:Originally posted by bonehead007

I worked , back in the late 70's, for Panasonic in Secaucus NJ..One day they were having an electronics sale in their R&D dept..There were all diff makes & models of other manufacturers equip, tvs, vcrs, etc.. When I asked one of the dept employees why they had other makes he replied, Panasonic buys them, pulls them apart and sees how they can improve them..



I read Bob Palma and his cousin George stood on their tip-toes and saw Studebaker tearing down competitive makes of cars in one of their factory buildings for same reason!![:0]:D

Craig

8E45E
01-16-2008, 02:33 PM
quote:Originally posted by bonehead007

I worked , back in the late 70's, for Panasonic in Secaucus NJ..One day they were having an electronics sale in their R&D dept..There were all diff makes & models of other manufacturers equip, tvs, vcrs, etc.. When I asked one of the dept employees why they had other makes he replied, Panasonic buys them, pulls them apart and sees how they can improve them..



I read Bob Palma and his cousin George stood on their tip-toes and saw Studebaker tearing down competitive makes of cars in one of their factory buildings for same reason!![:0]:D

Craig

studegary
01-16-2008, 02:59 PM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

:) Thanks, Craig. Is product from either of those plants shipped to The United States, or is it all for domestic [Canadian] consumption? [?] BP


Bob P. - At an auction that I plan on attending on Saturday, one of the cars is a 2005 Toyota. I happened to notice that the VIN starts with a "2". As you know, that indicates that the car was assembled in Canada. It turns out that the car was bought new by a friend of mine that only deals with local dealers. It is a car that was sold new in the US, not brought in later.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

studegary
01-16-2008, 02:59 PM
quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

:) Thanks, Craig. Is product from either of those plants shipped to The United States, or is it all for domestic [Canadian] consumption? [?] BP


Bob P. - At an auction that I plan on attending on Saturday, one of the cars is a 2005 Toyota. I happened to notice that the VIN starts with a "2". As you know, that indicates that the car was assembled in Canada. It turns out that the car was bought new by a friend of mine that only deals with local dealers. It is a car that was sold new in the US, not brought in later.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

studegary
01-16-2008, 03:05 PM
quote:Originally posted by dictator27

Honda has a plant in Alliston, Ontario that produces all Civics, Civic Coupes, Acura MDX's and Ridgelines for North America as well as the Canada only Acura CSX.

Has anyone out there ever read The Reckoning by David Halberstam? It is an interesting acount of how the Japanese manufacturers established themselves in North America.

Terry Godkin
Surrey, British Columbia
1927 Dictator Custom sedan
1954 Commander Starliner
(both Canadian assembled)


What is an Acura "CSX"? The name sounds like a crossover. Is that what it is? If not, what is the model?
I have an Acura 3.2 CL that I like, but they don't offer an equivalent vehicle in the US anymore.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

studegary
01-16-2008, 03:05 PM
quote:Originally posted by dictator27

Honda has a plant in Alliston, Ontario that produces all Civics, Civic Coupes, Acura MDX's and Ridgelines for North America as well as the Canada only Acura CSX.

Has anyone out there ever read The Reckoning by David Halberstam? It is an interesting acount of how the Japanese manufacturers established themselves in North America.

Terry Godkin
Surrey, British Columbia
1927 Dictator Custom sedan
1954 Commander Starliner
(both Canadian assembled)


What is an Acura "CSX"? The name sounds like a crossover. Is that what it is? If not, what is the model?
I have an Acura 3.2 CL that I like, but they don't offer an equivalent vehicle in the US anymore.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

8E45E
01-16-2008, 03:11 PM
quote:Originally posted by studegary

What is an Acura "CSX"? The name sounds like a crossover. Is that what it is? If not, what is the model?



It is based on the Civic. www.acura.ca will tell how to get one.

Craig

8E45E
01-16-2008, 03:11 PM
quote:Originally posted by studegary

What is an Acura "CSX"? The name sounds like a crossover. Is that what it is? If not, what is the model?



It is based on the Civic. www.acura.ca will tell how to get one.

Craig

A1956GoldenHawk
01-16-2008, 04:26 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

<snip> I spoke to a Chinese millionaire's wife while playing blackjack and it's not just lower wages, it's automation. Their plants are seldom over 10 years old, lots of robots, and fewer workers. The Chinese have the fastest growing middle class in the world, many buying new cars, including more then a few from GM's Chinese plants. Like it or not, we're living in a world economy with GM, and the rest building and selling cars worldwide.


As the Chinese (PRC) Ambassador to the United Nations put it to me in a private conversation 30 years ago on the former grounds of Studebaker Corp.: "You Americans have so many choices to make; will you choose the right ones???"

So, did we Americans choose the right ones???


<h4>Last Man Standing in Studebaker Indiana</h4>

A1956GoldenHawk
01-16-2008, 04:26 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

&lt;snip&gt; I spoke to a Chinese millionaire's wife while playing blackjack and it's not just lower wages, it's automation. Their plants are seldom over 10 years old, lots of robots, and fewer workers. The Chinese have the fastest growing middle class in the world, many buying new cars, including more then a few from GM's Chinese plants. Like it or not, we're living in a world economy with GM, and the rest building and selling cars worldwide.


As the Chinese (PRC) Ambassador to the United Nations put it to me in a private conversation 30 years ago on the former grounds of Studebaker Corp.: "You Americans have so many choices to make; will you choose the right ones???"

So, did we Americans choose the right ones???


<h4>Last Man Standing in Studebaker Indiana</h4>

Mark57
01-16-2008, 04:36 PM
Not sure if it is still in use, but Volvo used to have an assembly plant in Nova Scotia - unsure if that was just for Canadian sales or included US bound vehicles as well.

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar
3E-6/7-122 </h5>
[img]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/MrGreenJeans1003b.jpg

Mark57
01-16-2008, 04:36 PM
Not sure if it is still in use, but Volvo used to have an assembly plant in Nova Scotia - unsure if that was just for Canadian sales or included US bound vehicles as well.

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar
3E-6/7-122 </h5>
[img]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/MrGreenJeans1003b.jpg

JDP
01-16-2008, 04:43 PM
My Chinese friend could not grasp the concept that in the USA, you can't simply replace workers with robots. Her husbands was traveling the US selling industrial robots and constantly heard companies say they would love to modernize faster, but would never get it past the unions.
Where I worked making Studebaker bumpers, I was written up more then once for helping the company when I had extra time on the line and was bored. Once, for plugging in a fan, once more for picking up trash around my machine. One job I had was picking up bars from one conveyor belt, turning 90 degrees and placing them on another conveyor. Seemed a stupid way to do until I found the union would not allow a special conveyor to make the turn.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

JDP
01-16-2008, 04:43 PM
My Chinese friend could not grasp the concept that in the USA, you can't simply replace workers with robots. Her husbands was traveling the US selling industrial robots and constantly heard companies say they would love to modernize faster, but would never get it past the unions.
Where I worked making Studebaker bumpers, I was written up more then once for helping the company when I had extra time on the line and was bored. Once, for plugging in a fan, once more for picking up trash around my machine. One job I had was picking up bars from one conveyor belt, turning 90 degrees and placing them on another conveyor. Seemed a stupid way to do until I found the union would not allow a special conveyor to make the turn.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
51 Commander
39 Coupe express
39 Coupe express (rod)

Scott
01-16-2008, 05:06 PM
I see a lesson there about competitiveness and unions, but that seems to be a taboo subject - even when referencing Studebaker.

Scott
01-16-2008, 05:06 PM
I see a lesson there about competitiveness and unions, but that seems to be a taboo subject - even when referencing Studebaker.

A1956GoldenHawk
01-16-2008, 05:15 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

My Chinese friend could not grasp the concept that in the USA, you can't simply replace workers with robots. Her husbands was traveling the US selling industrial robots and constantly heard companies say they would love to modernize faster, but would never get it past the unions.


Stats just read indicate LESS than 12% of ALL workers in America today are represented by a union!!! If that is true, your Chinese friend's husband should be do a very brisk business pedaling those "Chinese Robots" to replace American workers:D

Does anyone have stats on what percetage of ALL Studebaker Corp. employees were union??? I'd venture a wild guess and say about 1 in 4 were NON-UNION in December 1963.


<h4>Last Man Standing in Studebaker Indiana</h4>

A1956GoldenHawk
01-16-2008, 05:15 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

My Chinese friend could not grasp the concept that in the USA, you can't simply replace workers with robots. Her husbands was traveling the US selling industrial robots and constantly heard companies say they would love to modernize faster, but would never get it past the unions.


Stats just read indicate LESS than 12% of ALL workers in America today are represented by a union!!! If that is true, your Chinese friend's husband should be do a very brisk business pedaling those "Chinese Robots" to replace American workers:D

Does anyone have stats on what percetage of ALL Studebaker Corp. employees were union??? I'd venture a wild guess and say about 1 in 4 were NON-UNION in December 1963.


<h4>Last Man Standing in Studebaker Indiana</h4>

JBOYLE
01-16-2008, 05:33 PM
At the risk of sounding like a complete reactionary...which I'm not... Really!
And it's not meant in a political context.

Just looking at history, the ascent of unions corresponds with the rise of the "welfare state" or "big government".

That seems to be the start of the idea that someone else will look out for you and you don't have to be responsible for yourself or your actions.

So today we have lots of 60 year olds supporting their 40 year old children or raising their grandchildren, lawyers behind every rock, and everybody else saying...
"it's not your fault"...(blame the other guy, Washington or society, especially if you're stupid, fat or an addict)...
"you deserve it" (whether or not you can really afford it)...


63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

JBOYLE
01-16-2008, 05:33 PM
At the risk of sounding like a complete reactionary...which I'm not... Really!
And it's not meant in a political context.

Just looking at history, the ascent of unions corresponds with the rise of the "welfare state" or "big government".

That seems to be the start of the idea that someone else will look out for you and you don't have to be responsible for yourself or your actions.

So today we have lots of 60 year olds supporting their 40 year old children or raising their grandchildren, lawyers behind every rock, and everybody else saying...
"it's not your fault"...(blame the other guy, Washington or society, especially if you're stupid, fat or an addict)...
"you deserve it" (whether or not you can really afford it)...


63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

LarkMC
01-16-2008, 06:11 PM
JDP'S information based on Wages in the World Almanac in 2002 is correct but extremely flawed. Not his fault, but here is why or the rest of the story they do not tell you.
That middle income worker in Japan making $22.00 in 2002 was living at what would of been considered poverty level in the U.S. That same Worker who would like to own a tiny two bedroom apartment someday will of payed the equivalent of $750,000.00 minimum for that dream. The majority of their children will never taste real milk because it is to expensive but instead will be given powdered milk and an apple would of cost $6.00. That same middle income worker who dreamed of owning a Toyota will of payed 25% more than we did for it. 90% of the gas he bought for it will of been produced from oil wells in the United Sates and he will have had to pay more a gallon for it than a European would for theirs. Yes the Japanese imported in 2002 the majority of their oil from the U.S. He will also had to pay the equivalent of $300.00 to rent a stall to park his car in the apartments garage. The majority of middle income Japanese workers will never be able to own a car but they will save more than four times more of their net wages over their life time than a U.S. worker will. He will probably never be able to afford membership in a golf club to play golf that he dreams of doing some day. He will though enjoy subsidized health care and the highest standard of living in all of Asia but that standard of living for a middle income Japanese worker did not even come close to the standard of living a middle income worker in the U.S. enjoyed making $19.86 an hour in 2002 had.

LarkMC
01-16-2008, 06:11 PM
JDP'S information based on Wages in the World Almanac in 2002 is correct but extremely flawed. Not his fault, but here is why or the rest of the story they do not tell you.
That middle income worker in Japan making $22.00 in 2002 was living at what would of been considered poverty level in the U.S. That same Worker who would like to own a tiny two bedroom apartment someday will of payed the equivalent of $750,000.00 minimum for that dream. The majority of their children will never taste real milk because it is to expensive but instead will be given powdered milk and an apple would of cost $6.00. That same middle income worker who dreamed of owning a Toyota will of payed 25% more than we did for it. 90% of the gas he bought for it will of been produced from oil wells in the United Sates and he will have had to pay more a gallon for it than a European would for theirs. Yes the Japanese imported in 2002 the majority of their oil from the U.S. He will also had to pay the equivalent of $300.00 to rent a stall to park his car in the apartments garage. The majority of middle income Japanese workers will never be able to own a car but they will save more than four times more of their net wages over their life time than a U.S. worker will. He will probably never be able to afford membership in a golf club to play golf that he dreams of doing some day. He will though enjoy subsidized health care and the highest standard of living in all of Asia but that standard of living for a middle income Japanese worker did not even come close to the standard of living a middle income worker in the U.S. enjoyed making $19.86 an hour in 2002 had.

BobPalma
01-16-2008, 07:06 PM
quote:Originally posted by 8E45E
I read Bob Palma and his cousin George stood on their tip-toes and saw Studebaker tearing down competitive makes of cars in one of their factory buildings for same reason!![:0]:D

Craig


:) True, Craig; as you know.

The Studebaker Engineering Building windows were in the wall that constitutes the east wall of the "new" SASCO. As you state, the bottoms of the windows were probably six feet above the sidewalk, so you couldn't just walk along and see what they were doing; unless you were about 6' 6" tall, your eyes could not see in through the windows. So you stood on tip-toes, repeatedly jumped, or used a step-stool. We weren't resourceful enough to have brought a step-stool, so we made repeated jumps. [:o)] Tip-toes worked better for George because he has always been about 4" taller than me (except at birth; I don't remember those "specs!").

Anyway, I remember seeing Studebaker "techs" examining at least three competitive makes in summer 1962: A greenish Corvair, a white Comet or Falcon, and a brown Dodge Lancer. The Lancer impressed me because I wondered why Studebaker spent money for a Lancer when a Valiant would have cost a few bucks less and provided them with the same information. The cars were all up on jack stands or lifts or some combination of both; I forget which. All were seriously dismembered.

Other makes and models were being torn down (possibly a Buick Special?), but I do not remember specific makes and models. I do remember all of them being "compacts," nothing big like a full-size Ford Galaxy or Chevrolet Impala. [}:)] BP

BobPalma
01-16-2008, 07:06 PM
quote:Originally posted by 8E45E
I read Bob Palma and his cousin George stood on their tip-toes and saw Studebaker tearing down competitive makes of cars in one of their factory buildings for same reason!![:0]:D

Craig


:) True, Craig; as you know.

The Studebaker Engineering Building windows were in the wall that constitutes the east wall of the "new" SASCO. As you state, the bottoms of the windows were probably six feet above the sidewalk, so you couldn't just walk along and see what they were doing; unless you were about 6' 6" tall, your eyes could not see in through the windows. So you stood on tip-toes, repeatedly jumped, or used a step-stool. We weren't resourceful enough to have brought a step-stool, so we made repeated jumps. [:o)] Tip-toes worked better for George because he has always been about 4" taller than me (except at birth; I don't remember those "specs!").

Anyway, I remember seeing Studebaker "techs" examining at least three competitive makes in summer 1962: A greenish Corvair, a white Comet or Falcon, and a brown Dodge Lancer. The Lancer impressed me because I wondered why Studebaker spent money for a Lancer when a Valiant would have cost a few bucks less and provided them with the same information. The cars were all up on jack stands or lifts or some combination of both; I forget which. All were seriously dismembered.

Other makes and models were being torn down (possibly a Buick Special?), but I do not remember specific makes and models. I do remember all of them being "compacts," nothing big like a full-size Ford Galaxy or Chevrolet Impala. [}:)] BP

Transtar56
01-16-2008, 07:37 PM
"Not sure if it is still in use, but Volvo used to have an assembly plant in Nova Scotia - unsure if that was just for Canadian sales or included US bound vehicles as well. "

No Volvos being built in Nova Scotia anymore but the last one that was built here is in the Museum of Industry in New Glascow,Ive looked it over. It has about 6 miles on it.

Just off shore there reputedly a whole Cargo ship of new Volvos that sank,I think,in the 60's. Be tough to restore them though.

Transtar56
01-16-2008, 07:37 PM
"Not sure if it is still in use, but Volvo used to have an assembly plant in Nova Scotia - unsure if that was just for Canadian sales or included US bound vehicles as well. "

No Volvos being built in Nova Scotia anymore but the last one that was built here is in the Museum of Industry in New Glascow,Ive looked it over. It has about 6 miles on it.

Just off shore there reputedly a whole Cargo ship of new Volvos that sank,I think,in the 60's. Be tough to restore them though.

Mark57
01-17-2008, 12:10 AM
quote:Originally posted by Transtar56

Just off shore there reputedly a whole Cargo ship of new Volvos that sank,I think,in the 60's. Be tough to restore them though.

That would be in the same class as the ship full of Dodge Colts that sank off the west coast of Vancouver Island in 1972... I've seen underwater pictures of those cars - now they were Rustbuckets![:0];)

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar
3E-6/7-122 </h5>
[img]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/MrGreenJeans1003b.jpg

Mark57
01-17-2008, 12:10 AM
quote:Originally posted by Transtar56

Just off shore there reputedly a whole Cargo ship of new Volvos that sank,I think,in the 60's. Be tough to restore them though.

That would be in the same class as the ship full of Dodge Colts that sank off the west coast of Vancouver Island in 1972... I've seen underwater pictures of those cars - now they were Rustbuckets![:0];)

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar
3E-6/7-122 </h5>
[img]http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/MrGreenJeans1003b.jpg

PlainBrownR2
01-17-2008, 12:42 AM
An area I've known about since hanging around the import guys in Yahoo. It was almost a punchline to the Big 3 guys that came into the room demanding us to buy American. The logic is there for some of the import makers. Rather than build, put em on a floating tub that could possibly sink halfway over, and lose a sizable amount as these are some large items, we'll just move the lines over here and send the money back over there. On the flip side, the model trains I deal with, the companies maybe over here(with more than a few over there), but the small trains are loaded into a reasonable container and shipped over here. Losses are a little less. Sink a boat with a pallet of the model trains from a company that may have the capability of spitting out a Studebaker engine crate full of these things day after day, and the loss is less costly(Note: I can't stand the economics topics, nor understand the models some of these folks come up with, on the trains forums over there as everyone has a different idea on how this works, so if you have a different view please chime in).
That sticker on the doorjamb though can tell alot in this instance of this topic, lol.


1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
1950 Studebaker 2R5 with 170 turbocharged
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00003.jpg?t=1171152673[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00009.jpg?t=1171153019[/img=right]
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00002.jpg?t=1171153180[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]

PlainBrownR2
01-17-2008, 12:42 AM
An area I've known about since hanging around the import guys in Yahoo. It was almost a punchline to the Big 3 guys that came into the room demanding us to buy American. The logic is there for some of the import makers. Rather than build, put em on a floating tub that could possibly sink halfway over, and lose a sizable amount as these are some large items, we'll just move the lines over here and send the money back over there. On the flip side, the model trains I deal with, the companies maybe over here(with more than a few over there), but the small trains are loaded into a reasonable container and shipped over here. Losses are a little less. Sink a boat with a pallet of the model trains from a company that may have the capability of spitting out a Studebaker engine crate full of these things day after day, and the loss is less costly(Note: I can't stand the economics topics, nor understand the models some of these folks come up with, on the trains forums over there as everyone has a different idea on how this works, so if you have a different view please chime in).
That sticker on the doorjamb though can tell alot in this instance of this topic, lol.


1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
1950 Studebaker 2R5 with 170 turbocharged
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00003.jpg?t=1171152673[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00009.jpg?t=1171153019[/img=right]
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00002.jpg?t=1171153180[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]

hank63
01-17-2008, 07:07 AM
The logic is simple, why should Joe Citizen buy a car (or anything else) that is not best quality / best price? If somebody else can sell a better piece at a lower price, why can't our home-grown product makers learn? We, the customers, have the right to spend our hard earned cash the way we want (right?) If product makers try to tell us otherwise, they don't want to face reality and resort to all sorts of weird and "wonderful" schemes. Buy American (English or Australian or whatever) is only one such scheme. Remember the "Cash For Clunkers" idea? Wouldn't be surprised to hear it came from an auto maker having slow sales !!!
I don't care, I will not buy a new car, I'd rather drive something older and classier (like a Hawk, for instance).
/ H

hank63
01-17-2008, 07:07 AM
The logic is simple, why should Joe Citizen buy a car (or anything else) that is not best quality / best price? If somebody else can sell a better piece at a lower price, why can't our home-grown product makers learn? We, the customers, have the right to spend our hard earned cash the way we want (right?) If product makers try to tell us otherwise, they don't want to face reality and resort to all sorts of weird and "wonderful" schemes. Buy American (English or Australian or whatever) is only one such scheme. Remember the "Cash For Clunkers" idea? Wouldn't be surprised to hear it came from an auto maker having slow sales !!!
I don't care, I will not buy a new car, I'd rather drive something older and classier (like a Hawk, for instance).
/ H

60Lark
01-17-2008, 12:27 PM
quote: Most GM pickups are assembled in Mexico (except for the one Indiana plant).


There is a GM truck assembly plant in Mexico but if I am not mistaken there are still GM truck assembly plants in Pontiac MI, Flint MI, Janesville WI, Oshawa Ontario, there is a Van assembly plant in Wentzville MO, the Hummer is assembled in Mishawaka IN, and I also believe there is a truck plant in Thailand.
IMHO the arguement that the imports are better than American brands is Bogus. I am currently driving a 2000 GMC assembled in Pontiac MI, with 145,000 miles and has only been in the shop for basic maintenance. The company I work for has over 50 mostly pick-up trucks on the road approximately 2/3 are Ford and 1/3 GM most of them do or will have over 100,000 miles in 2 to 3 years, all will have approximately 250,000 miles before they are replaced. I know there are those that have had bad experiences with domestic brands, but there are many that have had similar experiences with imports. I am one of those hard heads that will stay with only the domestic brands - but that just me

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6ce20b3127cce8d0e3b50356c00000000400CcNWTlozYsb http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cc20b3127cceb1557b998a7100000000400CcNWTlozYsb
Studebaker Fever
60 Lark
56 Power Hawk
Phil Hendrickson
Arnold, Missouri

60Lark
01-17-2008, 12:27 PM
quote: Most GM pickups are assembled in Mexico (except for the one Indiana plant).


There is a GM truck assembly plant in Mexico but if I am not mistaken there are still GM truck assembly plants in Pontiac MI, Flint MI, Janesville WI, Oshawa Ontario, there is a Van assembly plant in Wentzville MO, the Hummer is assembled in Mishawaka IN, and I also believe there is a truck plant in Thailand.
IMHO the arguement that the imports are better than American brands is Bogus. I am currently driving a 2000 GMC assembled in Pontiac MI, with 145,000 miles and has only been in the shop for basic maintenance. The company I work for has over 50 mostly pick-up trucks on the road approximately 2/3 are Ford and 1/3 GM most of them do or will have over 100,000 miles in 2 to 3 years, all will have approximately 250,000 miles before they are replaced. I know there are those that have had bad experiences with domestic brands, but there are many that have had similar experiences with imports. I am one of those hard heads that will stay with only the domestic brands - but that just me

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6ce20b3127cce8d0e3b50356c00000000400CcNWTlozYsb http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cc20b3127cceb1557b998a7100000000400CcNWTlozYsb
Studebaker Fever
60 Lark
56 Power Hawk
Phil Hendrickson
Arnold, Missouri

Scott
01-17-2008, 12:41 PM
There is a Ford truck assembly plant in St. Paul. It was supposed to close in 2008, I think, but they were pressured into letting it stay open into 2009. I think those facts are correct.

Scott
01-17-2008, 12:41 PM
There is a Ford truck assembly plant in St. Paul. It was supposed to close in 2008, I think, but they were pressured into letting it stay open into 2009. I think those facts are correct.

8E45E
01-18-2008, 01:41 PM
quote:Originally posted by 60Lark


quote: Most GM pickups are assembled in Mexico (except for the one Indiana plant).


There is a GM truck assembly plant in Mexico but if I am not mistaken there are still GM truck assembly plants in Pontiac MI, Flint MI, Janesville WI, Oshawa Ontario, there is a Van assembly plant in Wentzville MO, the Hummer is assembled in Mishawaka IN, and I also believe there is a truck plant in Thailand.
IMHO the arguement that the imports are better than American brands is Bogus. I am currently driving a 2000 GMC assembled in Pontiac MI, with 145,000 miles and has only been in the shop for basic maintenance. The company I work for has over 50 mostly pick-up trucks on the road approximately 2/3 are Ford and 1/3 GM most of them do or will have over 100,000 miles in 2 to 3 years, all will have approximately 250,000 miles before they are replaced. I know there are those that have had bad experiences with domestic brands, but there are many that have had similar experiences with imports. I am one of those hard heads that will stay with only the domestic brands - but that just me



Your brand new Ford of GM may only be assembled in the USA in the near future:

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/3ea25f7c4cc836e855af138376f3d3dd.htm

Craig

8E45E
01-18-2008, 01:41 PM
quote:Originally posted by 60Lark


quote: Most GM pickups are assembled in Mexico (except for the one Indiana plant).


There is a GM truck assembly plant in Mexico but if I am not mistaken there are still GM truck assembly plants in Pontiac MI, Flint MI, Janesville WI, Oshawa Ontario, there is a Van assembly plant in Wentzville MO, the Hummer is assembled in Mishawaka IN, and I also believe there is a truck plant in Thailand.
IMHO the arguement that the imports are better than American brands is Bogus. I am currently driving a 2000 GMC assembled in Pontiac MI, with 145,000 miles and has only been in the shop for basic maintenance. The company I work for has over 50 mostly pick-up trucks on the road approximately 2/3 are Ford and 1/3 GM most of them do or will have over 100,000 miles in 2 to 3 years, all will have approximately 250,000 miles before they are replaced. I know there are those that have had bad experiences with domestic brands, but there are many that have had similar experiences with imports. I am one of those hard heads that will stay with only the domestic brands - but that just me



Your brand new Ford of GM may only be assembled in the USA in the near future:

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/3ea25f7c4cc836e855af138376f3d3dd.htm

Craig

Scott
01-18-2008, 03:17 PM
Well, if you think about it, if Ford and GM are using the same parts (or same parts vendors) that the overseas companies use, then the only difference in quality will come from the design and assembly of the cars and trucks. And since the automated technology to assemble is probably equivalent here and over there, then I presume then that the only real tangible quality differences come down the design (including materials selection) and any hand assembly.

Scott
01-18-2008, 03:17 PM
Well, if you think about it, if Ford and GM are using the same parts (or same parts vendors) that the overseas companies use, then the only difference in quality will come from the design and assembly of the cars and trucks. And since the automated technology to assemble is probably equivalent here and over there, then I presume then that the only real tangible quality differences come down the design (including materials selection) and any hand assembly.

bams50
01-18-2008, 05:24 PM
quote:Originally posted by 60Lark


quote: Most GM pickups are assembled in Mexico (except for the one Indiana plant).


There is a GM truck assembly plant in Mexico but if I am not mistaken there are still GM truck assembly plants in Pontiac MI, Flint MI, Janesville WI, Oshawa Ontario, there is a Van assembly plant in Wentzville MO, the Hummer is assembled in Mishawaka IN, and I also believe there is a truck plant in Thailand.
IMHO the arguement that the imports are better than American brands is Bogus. I am currently driving a 2000 GMC assembled in Pontiac MI, with 145,000 miles and has only been in the shop for basic maintenance. The company I work for has over 50 mostly pick-up trucks on the road approximately 2/3 are Ford and 1/3 GM most of them do or will have over 100,000 miles in 2 to 3 years, all will have approximately 250,000 miles before they are replaced. I know there are those that have had bad experiences with domestic brands, but there are many that have had similar experiences with imports. I am one of those hard heads that will stay with only the domestic brands - but that just me



Amen, Phil, and God Bless; I'm with you.[^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

bams50
01-18-2008, 05:24 PM
quote:Originally posted by 60Lark


quote: Most GM pickups are assembled in Mexico (except for the one Indiana plant).


There is a GM truck assembly plant in Mexico but if I am not mistaken there are still GM truck assembly plants in Pontiac MI, Flint MI, Janesville WI, Oshawa Ontario, there is a Van assembly plant in Wentzville MO, the Hummer is assembled in Mishawaka IN, and I also believe there is a truck plant in Thailand.
IMHO the arguement that the imports are better than American brands is Bogus. I am currently driving a 2000 GMC assembled in Pontiac MI, with 145,000 miles and has only been in the shop for basic maintenance. The company I work for has over 50 mostly pick-up trucks on the road approximately 2/3 are Ford and 1/3 GM most of them do or will have over 100,000 miles in 2 to 3 years, all will have approximately 250,000 miles before they are replaced. I know there are those that have had bad experiences with domestic brands, but there are many that have had similar experiences with imports. I am one of those hard heads that will stay with only the domestic brands - but that just me



Amen, Phil, and God Bless; I'm with you.[^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

Dick Steinkamp
01-18-2008, 06:49 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50


quote:Originally posted by 60Lark


quote: Most GM pickups are assembled in Mexico (except for the one Indiana plant).


There is a GM truck assembly plant in Mexico but if I am not mistaken there are still GM truck assembly plants in Pontiac MI, Flint MI, Janesville WI, Oshawa Ontario, there is a Van assembly plant in Wentzville MO, the Hummer is assembled in Mishawaka IN, and I also believe there is a truck plant in Thailand.
IMHO the arguement that the imports are better than American brands is Bogus. I am currently driving a 2000 GMC assembled in Pontiac MI, with 145,000 miles and has only been in the shop for basic maintenance. The company I work for has over 50 mostly pick-up trucks on the road approximately 2/3 are Ford and 1/3 GM most of them do or will have over 100,000 miles in 2 to 3 years, all will have approximately 250,000 miles before they are replaced. I know there are those that have had bad experiences with domestic brands, but there are many that have had similar experiences with imports. I am one of those hard heads that will stay with only the domestic brands - but that just me



Amen, Phil, and God Bless; I'm with you.[^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131





My daily driver is a (Ft. Wayne assembled) GMC Sierra. These (and their Chevy counterpart, the Silverado) are assembled in Mexico, Oshawa, and Ft. Wayne. Other GMC truck models are assembled in several other plants. I was only referring to full size GM pickups, but I didn't say that (obviously).

If you buy a full size GMC pickup, you've got 2 out of 3 chances that it is not US produced (not that that is a bad thing).

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
01-18-2008, 06:49 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50


quote:Originally posted by 60Lark


quote: Most GM pickups are assembled in Mexico (except for the one Indiana plant).


There is a GM truck assembly plant in Mexico but if I am not mistaken there are still GM truck assembly plants in Pontiac MI, Flint MI, Janesville WI, Oshawa Ontario, there is a Van assembly plant in Wentzville MO, the Hummer is assembled in Mishawaka IN, and I also believe there is a truck plant in Thailand.
IMHO the arguement that the imports are better than American brands is Bogus. I am currently driving a 2000 GMC assembled in Pontiac MI, with 145,000 miles and has only been in the shop for basic maintenance. The company I work for has over 50 mostly pick-up trucks on the road approximately 2/3 are Ford and 1/3 GM most of them do or will have over 100,000 miles in 2 to 3 years, all will have approximately 250,000 miles before they are replaced. I know there are those that have had bad experiences with domestic brands, but there are many that have had similar experiences with imports. I am one of those hard heads that will stay with only the domestic brands - but that just me



Amen, Phil, and God Bless; I'm with you.[^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131





My daily driver is a (Ft. Wayne assembled) GMC Sierra. These (and their Chevy counterpart, the Silverado) are assembled in Mexico, Oshawa, and Ft. Wayne. Other GMC truck models are assembled in several other plants. I was only referring to full size GM pickups, but I didn't say that (obviously).

If you buy a full size GMC pickup, you've got 2 out of 3 chances that it is not US produced (not that that is a bad thing).

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

PlainBrownR2
01-18-2008, 07:00 PM
quote:
Well, if you think about it, if Ford and GM are using the same parts (or same parts vendors) that the overseas companies use, then the only difference in quality will come from the design and assembly of the cars and trucks. And since the automated technology to assemble is probably equivalent here and over there, then I presume then that the only real tangible quality differences come down the design (including materials selection) and any hand assembly.


Another item we've stumbled upon with auto mfr's these days. It didn't stop Mitsubishi, Hyundai, and Chrysler using the same 2 liter block with a different mill to suit the manufacturer.


1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
1950 Studebaker 2R5 with 170 turbocharged
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00003.jpg?t=1171152673[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00009.jpg?t=1171153019[/img=right]
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00002.jpg?t=1171153180[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]

PlainBrownR2
01-18-2008, 07:00 PM
quote:
Well, if you think about it, if Ford and GM are using the same parts (or same parts vendors) that the overseas companies use, then the only difference in quality will come from the design and assembly of the cars and trucks. And since the automated technology to assemble is probably equivalent here and over there, then I presume then that the only real tangible quality differences come down the design (including materials selection) and any hand assembly.


Another item we've stumbled upon with auto mfr's these days. It didn't stop Mitsubishi, Hyundai, and Chrysler using the same 2 liter block with a different mill to suit the manufacturer.


1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
1950 Studebaker 2R5 with 170 turbocharged
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00003.jpg?t=1171152673[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00009.jpg?t=1171153019[/img=right]
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00002.jpg?t=1171153180[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]

dictator27
01-18-2008, 07:34 PM
On another thread someone mentioned an Eastern US auto parts plant being taken over by Magna. That would be Magna International, a Canadian multi-billion dollar auto parts manufacturer. I heard recently that every car built in North America has $700-900 worth of parts on it made by Magna. Also, in 2006 Daimler Chrysler sold the tooling for the Dodge Stratus and Chrysler Sebring to Russian auto maker Volga. Remind anyone of what Packard did in the fifties? Volga has signed a deal with Magna to upgrade their 1970's era assembly line and parts manufacturing and will produce the Sebring under the GAZ Siber nameplate. Still looks like a Sebring from the side, but the fron has been resyled to provide continuity with previous Volgas. Hyundai has also signed a deal with Magna to build an assembly plant in Russia.

Terry Godkin
1927 Dictator Custom sedan
1954 Commander Starliner
Surrey, British Columbia

dictator27
01-18-2008, 07:34 PM
On another thread someone mentioned an Eastern US auto parts plant being taken over by Magna. That would be Magna International, a Canadian multi-billion dollar auto parts manufacturer. I heard recently that every car built in North America has $700-900 worth of parts on it made by Magna. Also, in 2006 Daimler Chrysler sold the tooling for the Dodge Stratus and Chrysler Sebring to Russian auto maker Volga. Remind anyone of what Packard did in the fifties? Volga has signed a deal with Magna to upgrade their 1970's era assembly line and parts manufacturing and will produce the Sebring under the GAZ Siber nameplate. Still looks like a Sebring from the side, but the fron has been resyled to provide continuity with previous Volgas. Hyundai has also signed a deal with Magna to build an assembly plant in Russia.

Terry Godkin
1927 Dictator Custom sedan
1954 Commander Starliner
Surrey, British Columbia

studeclunker
01-18-2008, 08:30 PM
I've heard this nonsense of a 'Global Economy' so much over the past few years that I could just... how do the kids put it? Oh yes, hurl. Why should we think twice about buying that product that costs less than a comperable American made product? Well, let's just put it this way; how do you expect our economy to operate if we cannot compete in the world market? DO YOU want to live in conditions that the Japanese have to deal with? DO YOU want to live like the average Chineese or even Mexican does?

Yes, the Unions have committed some excesses in their demands. Yes, the American worker was treated better than any other. After all, this is the United States where everything is supposed to be better for the average everyday citizen. Think carefully before starting to bash even the Union workers at Studebaker (who were admittedly taking advantage). You still owe them a five day work week, eight hour days, overtime, days off, vacation pay, any kind of benefits, holidays, etc ad nauseum. These things weren't just provided to the American worker out of the goodness of the American businessman's heart. It cost blood, yes red American blood, to get these concessions from big business. People DIED for this folks.

I worked in the Computer services field. The entire staff at the company I worked at (including myself) were replaced by Chineese nationals. In all, thirty Americans were put out of work. The Institute of Technology at Szchewan China, was able to provide workers they had educated for the cost of two programers and myself (Computer Systems Manager). Some of the programmers in the company had degrees from universities that had cost them many thousands of dollars. One had a school loan he was still paying on that totaled over a hundred fifty thousand dollars. The Indians, Chineese and many others who are taking our jobs don't pay for their educations. Theirs are free, provided by their government.

Some trucking companies are bringing in foreign nationals to drive in our country. Greyhound hires Mexicans to drive for their subsidiaries. Mexican nationals don't have to meet the same requirements as Americans. They don't have to do logs. Many of the hourly and rest requirements are much more profitable for the company than are hiring Americans to do the same job. There are hundreds of other examples I could give you.

If we keep exporting our manufacturing, services, and other jobs to cheaper foreign shores, there soon won't be anything left for Americans to do. Then how are you going to pay for your Japaneese car and your internet service that's supported by Indians and Phillipinos (like PeoplePC, EarthLink, and others)?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/december%2006/HPIM0234.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

studeclunker
01-18-2008, 08:30 PM
I've heard this nonsense of a 'Global Economy' so much over the past few years that I could just... how do the kids put it? Oh yes, hurl. Why should we think twice about buying that product that costs less than a comperable American made product? Well, let's just put it this way; how do you expect our economy to operate if we cannot compete in the world market? DO YOU want to live in conditions that the Japanese have to deal with? DO YOU want to live like the average Chineese or even Mexican does?

Yes, the Unions have committed some excesses in their demands. Yes, the American worker was treated better than any other. After all, this is the United States where everything is supposed to be better for the average everyday citizen. Think carefully before starting to bash even the Union workers at Studebaker (who were admittedly taking advantage). You still owe them a five day work week, eight hour days, overtime, days off, vacation pay, any kind of benefits, holidays, etc ad nauseum. These things weren't just provided to the American worker out of the goodness of the American businessman's heart. It cost blood, yes red American blood, to get these concessions from big business. People DIED for this folks.

I worked in the Computer services field. The entire staff at the company I worked at (including myself) were replaced by Chineese nationals. In all, thirty Americans were put out of work. The Institute of Technology at Szchewan China, was able to provide workers they had educated for the cost of two programers and myself (Computer Systems Manager). Some of the programmers in the company had degrees from universities that had cost them many thousands of dollars. One had a school loan he was still paying on that totaled over a hundred fifty thousand dollars. The Indians, Chineese and many others who are taking our jobs don't pay for their educations. Theirs are free, provided by their government.

Some trucking companies are bringing in foreign nationals to drive in our country. Greyhound hires Mexicans to drive for their subsidiaries. Mexican nationals don't have to meet the same requirements as Americans. They don't have to do logs. Many of the hourly and rest requirements are much more profitable for the company than are hiring Americans to do the same job. There are hundreds of other examples I could give you.

If we keep exporting our manufacturing, services, and other jobs to cheaper foreign shores, there soon won't be anything left for Americans to do. Then how are you going to pay for your Japaneese car and your internet service that's supported by Indians and Phillipinos (like PeoplePC, EarthLink, and others)?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/december%2006/HPIM0234.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

nels
01-18-2008, 09:13 PM
I agree Ron. Seems unbelievably obvious to me.

nels
01-18-2008, 09:13 PM
I agree Ron. Seems unbelievably obvious to me.

showbizkid
01-19-2008, 01:32 AM
It's not just about wages, guys. It's about government interference and taxation, too.

One of my best friends works at a company who's made their products in the US for over 25 years. They are the leaders in their field, but they are still feeling the crunch from offshore competition. So, reluctantly, they are looking at moving product manufacture to Shenzen, China.

My friend tells me that the real reason the Chinese can make products so cheaply is that the multiple levels of taxation that are present in every US manufactured good simply don't exist there. China's government - communist thought it is - realizes that to gain a foothold in the world market, it must let its people compete without shackling them with taxation and overregulation.

Consider: when we buy a US product - say, a set of spark plugs - how many times has it been taxed? There's taxes on the raw materials, taxes on the transportation and sale of those materials, taxes on the individual components, taxes when they're sold to the manufacturer, taxes on the paper and ink of the boxes they go into, taxes on the cellophane that wraps them, sales taxes on the manufacturer, the wholesaler and the retailer... and to boot, 28% income tax (or better) on every laborer or salesperson that's made a living in that long chain of transactions all the way down the line.

My friend tells me the Chinese have none of this. Sure, there are some levies along the way, but nothing like what we're saddled with.

So how are we, with a beaurocracy that keeps expanding to meet the needs of the expanding beaurocracy, and who want ever more taxes to fund it, supposed to compete?

&lt;/political rant OFF&gt;


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

showbizkid
01-19-2008, 01:32 AM
It's not just about wages, guys. It's about government interference and taxation, too.

One of my best friends works at a company who's made their products in the US for over 25 years. They are the leaders in their field, but they are still feeling the crunch from offshore competition. So, reluctantly, they are looking at moving product manufacture to Shenzen, China.

My friend tells me that the real reason the Chinese can make products so cheaply is that the multiple levels of taxation that are present in every US manufactured good simply don't exist there. China's government - communist thought it is - realizes that to gain a foothold in the world market, it must let its people compete without shackling them with taxation and overregulation.

Consider: when we buy a US product - say, a set of spark plugs - how many times has it been taxed? There's taxes on the raw materials, taxes on the transportation and sale of those materials, taxes on the individual components, taxes when they're sold to the manufacturer, taxes on the paper and ink of the boxes they go into, taxes on the cellophane that wraps them, sales taxes on the manufacturer, the wholesaler and the retailer... and to boot, 28% income tax (or better) on every laborer or salesperson that's made a living in that long chain of transactions all the way down the line.

My friend tells me the Chinese have none of this. Sure, there are some levies along the way, but nothing like what we're saddled with.

So how are we, with a beaurocracy that keeps expanding to meet the needs of the expanding beaurocracy, and who want ever more taxes to fund it, supposed to compete?

&lt;/political rant OFF&gt;


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

STEWDI
01-19-2008, 10:03 AM
There was a bumper sticker several years ago that was a good answer to the "buy American" faction. Considering the sentiment of the U.S. Constitution and the Wars of Independance it seems appropriate. It went something like - " Real Americans buy anything they want". They maintain the right to buy what they themselves deem right And, obviously no matter where it's made).
By the way, if it makes anyone happier, ALL my Studebakers were made in South Bend!

Roger "153624" Hill

55 Champion
47 M-5
Izzer Buggy
Junior Wagon

STEWDI
01-19-2008, 10:03 AM
There was a bumper sticker several years ago that was a good answer to the "buy American" faction. Considering the sentiment of the U.S. Constitution and the Wars of Independance it seems appropriate. It went something like - " Real Americans buy anything they want". They maintain the right to buy what they themselves deem right And, obviously no matter where it's made).
By the way, if it makes anyone happier, ALL my Studebakers were made in South Bend!

Roger "153624" Hill

55 Champion
47 M-5
Izzer Buggy
Junior Wagon

Dick Steinkamp
01-19-2008, 10:08 AM
quote:Originally posted by showbizkid
My friend tells me the Chinese have none of this.


Here are the current taxes in China...

Categorization of Taxation
The major tax categories applicable to FIEs can be divided into 2 groups according to their respective levying authorities.

Taxes Levied by Tax Bureau
a. A turn over tax system on business transactions, including:
* Value-added tax;
* Consumption (excise) tax;
* Business tax.

b. Taxes on income, including:
* Income tax for foreign investment enterprises and foreign enterprises;
* Individual income tax.

c. Taxes on property and behavior, including:
* Urban real estate tax;
* Vehicle and vessel usage and license plate tax;
* Stamp taxes;
* Land appreciation tax.

d. Taxes on natural resources, including:
* Resources tax.

Taxes Levied by Customs

a. Customs duty;

b. Vessel tonnage tax.

http://www.china-window.com/china_market/investment_in_china/taxation-in-china.shtml


I had a friend tell me that Studebaker used Ford 289 engines.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
01-19-2008, 10:08 AM
quote:Originally posted by showbizkid
My friend tells me the Chinese have none of this.


Here are the current taxes in China...

Categorization of Taxation
The major tax categories applicable to FIEs can be divided into 2 groups according to their respective levying authorities.

Taxes Levied by Tax Bureau
a. A turn over tax system on business transactions, including:
* Value-added tax;
* Consumption (excise) tax;
* Business tax.

b. Taxes on income, including:
* Income tax for foreign investment enterprises and foreign enterprises;
* Individual income tax.

c. Taxes on property and behavior, including:
* Urban real estate tax;
* Vehicle and vessel usage and license plate tax;
* Stamp taxes;
* Land appreciation tax.

d. Taxes on natural resources, including:
* Resources tax.

Taxes Levied by Customs

a. Customs duty;

b. Vessel tonnage tax.

http://www.china-window.com/china_market/investment_in_china/taxation-in-china.shtml


I had a friend tell me that Studebaker used Ford 289 engines.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/ddstnkmp/54%20starlight/HiResS2Dsig2.jpg

studeclunker
01-19-2008, 10:12 AM
Clark, you forgot all the expensive enviromental regulations. Like for instance; the rules on paint that we, as hobbiests, will be dealing with soon.

Sigh, what good are the environmental regulations when all it does is cause the industry to migrate to where said regulations don't exist?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/december%2006/HPIM0234.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

studeclunker
01-19-2008, 10:12 AM
Clark, you forgot all the expensive enviromental regulations. Like for instance; the rules on paint that we, as hobbiests, will be dealing with soon.

Sigh, what good are the environmental regulations when all it does is cause the industry to migrate to where said regulations don't exist?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/december%2006/HPIM0234.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?