Volkswagon In Trouble With The EPA (Defeat Device Found)

[Jeff_H]

Just heard that Mercedes, Mazda, Mitsubishi, & Honda are also in the doo for this....

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/09/mercedes-honda-mazda-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row

Have not read articles yet.

Also heard other companies as well.

I would expect some of these could be a case of specs-manship. Meets the letter of the spec but not the spirit. Test spec conditions are always sort of artificial and engineering can figure out a way to meet those specs under the specified test conditions but real world may not. Blame who wrote the spec then if not good enough to emulate real life.

[t walgamuth]

Ahah! Of course everybody designs their cars to meet the test.....(but not the intent of the test?)

[stall]

I think we're going to be hearing about this for many years. There are real problems trying to mitigate this:
---Your going to be asking consumers to bring in their cars for some kind of retrofit that will result in poorer performance across the board. I don't believe there is a vehicle to force consumers to bring in their cars for any recall! This will drive the eco-nuts even more crazy.
---Will VW be forced to a buyback?
---Will VW be forced into a rebate ? The WSJ reprts that overall value of the subject vehicles has dropped 13% already and continues a downward trend!

Sit back and enjoy this industrial soap opera

stall

[Peanut]

"Volkswagen"

[bezhawk]

I,for one sane person,it would seem, am glad for the EPA. I don't want my rivers catching fire.
Plain and simple, they cheated and got caught. Why do you think this is okay?

[t walgamuth]

I'm glad for the EPA too. Cars are much much better now than they were before it existed.

[hausdok]

Don't hold your breath waiting for Volkswagen to go bankrupt; they'll have accumulated a very heavy cushion after being around for 80 years. Even if things get bad for them they probably won't even hiccup - they'll just sell of a sub-division.

What's seems strange to me is that there doesn't seem to be a dustup about this in Deutschland. When I was stationed there they were extremely fussy about the environment. For instance, if you spilled antifreeze on the ground and a German citizen saw you do it, and saw you drive away without cleaning it up, he or she could report you to the authorities and they would literally come and arrest you. I know this for certain because as a military investigator and liaison to the Kripo in Norddeutschland I was assigned to investigate such a case. It turned out to be an honest mistake on the G.I.'s part. His radiator hose blew off on the autobahn on a long flat stretch of road next to a peat marsh. He put it back on with some tools he had in the trunk, filled up his radiator from a jug of water he had in the trunk and then went on his merry way; not realizing that he'd just committed a serious taboo. A German watched him drive away from that puddle of green liquid, took down his plate and turned him in. The Politzei took a statement, turned the case over to the Kripo and my Kripo counterpart showed up at the PMO demanding he be turned over. His commander brought him down to the PMO, turned him over and then had to go downtown and formally take custody of the guy under the S.O.F.A.. The poor guy couldn't figure out what evil he had done. When I explained that he was being arrested for environmental contamination he was even more astounded and bewildered. Visited the "crime scene" and there were at least a dozen Germans in some kind of uniform digging up the soil along the autobahn. They'd even placed some kind of heavy brightly-colored barriers at the edge of the marsh on the other side of the fence line. As they dug down, they tested and re-tested that soil until they were certain they had all of the antifreeze-contaminated soil in their containment vehicle and then truck standing by with clean soil filled in the hole, they carefully raked it all out and seeded it, covered it with some kind of moss-looking media to prevent the seed from blowing away and then watered it - all in the space of about an hour and a half.

In the end the "investigation" - which really amounted to only informing him of his rights (he waived them) and then questioning him and taking a statement in front of the Kripo counterpart - confirmed that he did in fact violate German law by not cleaning up the mess and immediately informing the authorities of the exact nature and location of the event. He ended up paying a civil fine and had to reimburse the Germans for the cost of the cleanup and he ended up getting an Article 15 (non-judicial punishment). If the same thing had happened on Ft. Bragg and someone had reported it to the PMO I doubt that they would have even filed a report. Heck, at Bragg they blow up electrical transformers full of PCB's on a demolition range that has a creek running through it, fer cryin' out loud.

[8E45E]

Don't hold your breath waiting for Volkswagen to go bankrupt; they'll have accumulated a very heavy cushion after being around for 80 years. Even if things get bad for them they probably won't even hiccup - they'll just sell of a sub-division.

Or leave the U.S market, just as the French automakers have done.

Craig

[hausdok]

Nah,

They'll never leave this market. Call me prejudiced - and I guess I am - but most Americans aren't greatly enamored with the French, especially their cars. I think the French automakers were lucky to have been able to survive here as long as they did.

[qsanford]

."

I think we're going to be hearing about this for many years. There are real problems trying to mitigate this:
---Your going to be asking consumers to bring in their cars for some kind of retrofit that will result in poorer performance across the board. I don't believe there is a vehicle to force consumers to bring in their cars for any recall! This will drive the eco-nuts even more crazy.
---Will VW be forced to a buyback?
---Will VW be forced into a rebate ? The WSJ reprts that overall value of the subject vehicles has dropped 13% already and continues a downward trend!

Sit back and enjoy this industrial soap opera

stall

They may even face claims of mental anguish by some environmentalists who realize the "green" cars they have been driving weren't so green!

[t walgamuth]

."

They may even face claims of mental anguish by some environmentalists who realize the "green" cars they have been driving weren't so green!

Well, in this country you can file a lawsuit at any time against anyone for any reason. ....that does not mean you can prevail in court.

[56H-Y6]

Hi

VW has set themselves up to experience what might best be described by a gentle paraphrase: "Hell hath no fury like customers deceived on purpose!"

Whatever the outcome and however costly it ultimately proves to be, it is simply just desserts!

Steve

[556063]

Besides the ultra pricey BMW and Mercedes Diesels, few will remember that VW was the only manufacturer to offer a low price, volume type Diesel in recent years. Could it be this defeat device was the only way to do that? Could it be that unreasonable regulation drove them to do this to try to save a niche market they have traditionally had quite a hold on? In any case, the truth came out. And the forces that made them semi-successful in the past are now working endlessly toward their demise.

[conrad01]

No matter how you look at it. Burning 20% more fuel to be clean offsets the environmental damage in one area to another. Sure is brings the smog levels down in the city's but brings up the release of gases from producing wells in other areas. The semi you follow is so clean now but only gets 4-6mpg bringing you your food but 10 years ago that same semi got 9-12 if tuned properly . Its just too bad they are going to throw the book at vw . We buy cars like that because they last and they get 50-60mpg. This saves big money in our pockets in the long run. Any car that gets 60mpg should be epa exempt..

[DEEPNHOCK]

Please state your sources for your mileage claims, past and present (regarding class 6/7/8 trucks).
Hard to pin down because vocations are so varied a 'mile' means something totally different in an over the road semi and a refuse truck.
Today, several truck engine mfr's are pushing 10 mpg, which is a huge increase from the 6mpg avg of years past.
Not nitpicking, but real curious... I just did some searching and FMVS and NHTSA and TMC sources do not have readily available data.
Hopefully you can provide some....

No matter how you look at it. Burning 20% more fuel to be clean offsets the environmental damage in one area to another. Sure is brings the smog levels down in the city's but brings up the release of gases from producing wells in other areas. The semi you follow is so clean now but only gets 4-6mpg bringing you your food but 10 years ago that same semi got 9-12 if tuned properly . Its just too bad they are going to throw the book at vw . We buy cars like that because they last and they get 50-60mpg. This saves big money in our pockets in the long run. Any car that gets 60mpg should be epa exempt..