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What is the failure mode for aged tires?

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  • #16
    It turns out that the Honda tires were made in February of '09 and they have lots of little cracks. Costco is having a sale, so Henry Honda will get new shoes soon.

    Bluebelle the 60 Lark has tires that were made in '05. Even though they look perfect, maybe it's time for a set for her as well.
    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.


    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon

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    • #17
      I've commented on this before. I don't claim to be an expert on tires or anything else for that mater, but have read a bit on the subject. The NTSB has never given any specific guidelines on tire life, or specifics on age related degradation of tires. they indicate that there are too many variables involved in in storage and tire usage. Things like temperature humidity, inflation and UV damage. Also if a steel belted tire has been incorrectly repaired rust can damage the belts from the inside of the tire, and can go undetected. Then the NTSB throws it back at the tire manufactures, by saying that some tire manufacturers suggest tire replacement after seven years, but they take no stand in this regard.

      IMO the replacement schedule that we in the PNW can get away with, safely, because of our mild climate and relative little UV damage, a person in Texas would be foolish to try to maintain. I think that it's vary important to know your tires history and to check then often. All important is how your vehicle is used. common sense should be your guide, but I guess if you feel unsafe driving on what you have, better change them out, for your own piece of mind. I have a few cars, so if anyone in the PNW, arbitrarily decides to discard any seven year old tires, let me know I can find a good use for them.

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      • #18
        Corley

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        • #19
          Did anyone try putting inner tubes in older tires for safety?
          Some of the older rims were not designed for tubeless tires

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          • #20
            Originally posted by rkapteyn View Post
            Did anyone try putting inner tubes in older tires for safety?
            Some of the older rims were not designed for tubeless tires
            I doubt inner tubes would add anything to safety. All of the strength is in the tire, which is good for 30+ lbs/sq in for decades, and probably up to 50-60 psi when in good new condition.

            I doubt an inner tube by itself will hold much more than 5 psi before it blows. All the inner tube does is prevent seepage between the tire and wheel.

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            • #21
              Didn't we have a vendor or 2 that had serious accidents in the last 10 years? Anyone remember if they were tire related?
              Carey
              Packard Hawk

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              • #22
                I haven't used an inner tube since 1979 on my '73 Ford F-100 pick-up. Remember that there is increased friction when using an inner tube. Not sure if any modern tire manufacturer would recommend nor have any information about using an inner tube in 2018.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by RadioRoy View Post
                  It turns out that the Honda tires were made in February of '09 and they have lots of little cracks. Costco is having a sale, so Henry Honda will get new shoes soon.

                  Bluebelle the 60 Lark has tires that were made in '05. Even though they look perfect, maybe it's time for a set for her as well.
                  "Lots of little cracks" sounds like UV sunlight damage. If it's only superficial, it means nothing, since the outer layer of rubber does nothing, however...with steel belted radials, cracks which are deep enough can let the steel plys get wet, rust and fail. I think I'd replace those, "just in case".

                  Made in '05 doesn't sound like an issue. If there's no obvious UV damage (lots of little cracks), no obvious faults (bulges), and plenty of tread, I'd run them summore.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Dads Baby View Post
                    Didn't we have a vendor or 2 that had serious accidents in the last 10 years? Anyone remember if they were tire related?
                    One vendor Lionel Stone had a rear tire blow out and lost control of his heavily loaded truck on the way to a National meet .(Omaha?)
                    His wife was killed and he suffered major injuries.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Buzzard View Post
                      OK Roy and guys(and girls),
                      40+ years in the tire and wheel industry has let me see just about everything related to tires.
                      Firstly, lets remember that the construction and materials have changed immensely. Bias ply became bias belted, nylon gave way to rayon and other polyester materials and ultimately then radial construction became the norm with steel belted tires as well as kevlar for belt support and strength. Our original tires from 60+ years ago were mostly made with real rubber. These tires were supported from the inside with very robust and forgiving tubes and liners. Now most tires have very little rubber, are of tubeless construction and are mostly made from synthetic materials which are very susceptible to breakdown from ozone, temperature and sunlight. We used to receive letters from Michelin, Goodyear, Yokohama, Toyo, Bridgestone and several other major manufacturers requesting us to not press a tire into service if we knew the tire to be over six(6) years of age. There is a lot of lee way here as the manufacturers are covering their own butts in this age of litigation with absolutely no one wanting to take responsibility for their own lives. Modern tires deteriorate from the inside out so mostly it is near impossible to foresee a tires' impending demise unless it is physically separating and the tread is distorted.
                      Another factor is where the tires are being used. There is no way Bob in Phoenix will have a tire deliver the same range of service that Rich in Washington state or Gary in the northeast would receive. Heat is a killer. Those living in snow zones also usually have two sets of tires which greatly extend all 8 of the tire's longevity and performance. All 8 will also be rotated twice a year which also helps in longevity and smooth performance. Remember the Ford Explorer/Firestone fiasco back in the 90's. The initial failures were from the high heat areas of the country such as Arizona, Texas and California where not just the ambient temperatures were high, but also speed limits as well which create more flex and thus higher than normal temperatures in the tires themselves. Part of the failure was due to Ford trying to get the ride quality acceptable in an otherwise truck chassis by labeling the door decal ratings to 26 PSI. It matters not what brand of tire subjected to those initial low pressures, normal human neglect(most cars' tires are usually approximately 8-10 psi UNDER the recommended pressures) will inevitably lead to failure with extreme flex and subsequent temperature increase. We in this forum are most probably more anal about our tires' pressure and condition than the average car hating individual who sees a car as a simple device to move one around.
                      I carry a laser temperature gun and when stopping for fuel on a long trip, I shoot each tire for a temperature reading. It hardly matters what temperature they are at, but rather the differential between the tires. For example, if you have just come off a 70+ mile per hour run for hours on end, all the tires should be running at fairly consistent albeit somewhat higher than normal temperatures and pressures. If one is considerably higher than the others, it is showing that it may have picked up a nail or in the case of this conversation, is starting to separate from age or normal degradation which causes excessive flexing of the tire, and thus higher pressure AND temperature.
                      Like Gunslinger, my '83 Avanti rarely gets driven but last year while travelling to our local chapter meet, a discernible vibration was being transmitted from the otherwise great looking Michelins which I know is a factor of age degradation rather than obvious tread wear out.
                      To be safe to both our well beings as well as our wallets I recommend replacing your tires every ten(10) years to err on the side of caution and safety. I hope this long winded explanation assists some of you.
                      Happy Studebaker driving.
                      Bill
                      Now we know! Rubber verses synthetic or designed obsolescence. Over my lifetime I have never had a new rubber bias ply blow out. I have a 1939 one ton Chevy truck. The bias ply tires were installed in the '50s and they still hold air and I drive it around on side roads at about 30 mph. These tires were also used on the truck when it was a milk truck so they've had plenty of use.

                      Now, onto new radial tires. I had one brand new one on my tri-axle trailer that completely shredded after 600 miles. To my surprise, this tire had no steel belts at all. The tire was designed for trailers and the highest ply I could buy.

                      Just the way it is now. They are not designed to last. One thing, however, make sure to keep them out of the sun.
                      don

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                      • #26
                        Don,
                        A little known fact is that trailer tires should be run at maximum pressure(identified on the sidewall). They are usually of heavier belt construction so they don't do well with the resultant flexing that takes place when a tire is run under inflated and loaded perhaps to near capacity. Also as Rodney stated, trailer tires get no respect. They are bounced over curbs and pot holes which are usually avoided by the tow vehicle.
                        Trailer tires that are built in America are difficult to find these days so yes, when parked, keep them covered so as to get as much longevity out of them as possible.
                        Bill

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                        • #27
                          I've had at least 2 tires blow out on cars that were sitting (thankfully) at the time. As we speak my 61 Champ has a bulge in it's r/f that will no doubt be next to go. Fortunately it's waiting for me to overhaul the carburetor so when it does go I'll be ready for it. It's around 8 years old & has 10/32nds of tread left so it hasn't seen much use but was exposed to the hot sun south of Riverside California for it's lifetime.
                          59 Lark wagon, now V-8, H.D. auto!
                          60 Lark convertible V-8 auto
                          61 Champ 1/2 ton 4 speed
                          62 Champ 3/4 ton 5 speed o/drive
                          62 Champ 3/4 ton auto
                          62 Daytona convertible V-8 4 speed & 62 Cruiser, auto.
                          63 G.T. Hawk R-2,4 speed
                          63 Avanti (2) R-1 auto
                          64 Zip Van
                          66 Daytona Sport Sedan(327)V-8 4 speed
                          66 Cruiser V-8 auto

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Buzzard View Post
                            Don,
                            A little known fact is that trailer tires should be run at maximum pressure(identified on the sidewall). They are usually of heavier belt construction so they don't do well with the resultant flexing that takes place when a tire is run under inflated and loaded perhaps to near capacity. Also as Rodney stated, trailer tires get no respect. They are bounced over curbs and pot holes which are usually avoided by the tow vehicle.
                            Trailer tires that are built in America are difficult to find these days so yes, when parked, keep them covered so as to get as much longevity out of them as possible.
                            Bill
                            I do put maximum pressure in all my trailer tires and these 6 new tires were installed just before the trip. It ripped the valances all apart too. When I complained to a shop owner in Portland Oregon about blowouts after he replaced one for me. He asked how fast I was driving, I said 70. He said you can not do that, the speed must be 60 miles per hour. Interesting and it does help.
                            don

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                            • #29
                              Old tires with too little air pressure will separate really quick. But, sometimes even newer tire have issues. I Had a tire about 6 years old that blew up in my face when adding air. Seems the tire shop must have damaged the rubber at the bead, because the wire in the bead had rusted and gave way. My hearing was gone for about a day, and I still have bits of rubber and rusty metal in my leg, hich was right in front of it when it exploded. Not to be messed with...
                              Corley

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                              • #30
                                Henry Honda has new tires, but now he pulls to the right. How could Costco screw up the alignment installing tires? Pressures are roughly even on all four.

                                I fixed the slow leak on the 60 Lark... by replacing it with TWO faster/bigger slow leaks. Hmmm....
                                RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.


                                10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                                4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                                5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon

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