Engine Size

[karterfred88]

Okay, my 2013 Mustang has 412 HP and no place to use it. Hit the gas entering a highway from a driveway and tires spin, back end jumps and over steer is instantaneous. Sometimes it's fun-sometimes not. My 63 R2 Avanti will never do that-and I don't care-not it's purpose. But it also won't return 26 MPG over a 400 mile trip either. Being that that 74 is over 40 years old, in most states you can "update" and get rid of the early attempts at emission control-sapping that beast of any hope of breathing. An intake, a TBI, electronic distributor, would make it much more enjoyable without a Fort Knox investment.

[48skyliner]

I have never even ridden in an Avanti, but I would think the torque of a 400 inch V8, even at 180 hp, would certainly be enough for normal street use in a 3100 pound car. My 48 Champion weighs 3100 pounds, and the 124 inch Skyline turbo motor certainly is adequate. The turbo is very small and efficient, with a light weight ceramic turbine wheel, and spins up to a pretty good boost starting at about 2500 rpm. The stock motor peaks at 10 pounds boost, but drops off starting at about 5,000. Peak power is 212 hp nominal at 6600 rpm, with about 8 pounds boost. I recently took an experienced street rodder for a ride, with four people in the car. He was very surprised how well it performed, but especially impressed that the engine did not sound "busy" or strained at 7,000 rpm. I suppose your 400 would not be happy at that rpm.

I always tell the young guys who hang around my shop that stoplight drag racing is very childish and immature -- but if a guy pulls up next to you in a BMW, you just do what you have to do. (If the BMW has an M3 or M5 emblem on the fender, best you ignore him unless you have one of those 500 hp motors.)

[sweetolbob]

Like most discussions on the forum, it's almost impossible to change others opinions. Big horsepower vehicles of the 60's and early 70's had a visceral aspect that just doesn't exist in the newer vehicles. The newer cars are smoother, faster, quieter and handle much better. The older ones were rough, harsh, loud and overall just left an impression the newer ones can't match. I think that's what a lot of we old folks remember.

The memories get better as the kick in the a$$ increases. If you don't have the memories or didn't care for the experience then the whole thing is meaningless. It's not about can I beat the Bimmer in the next lane or buy a Hellcat/Demon off the showroom floor that will kick your a$$ because I can do either but it's not the memories.

The memories are nights in the garage over the fender with tools possibly burns on the back of your hand cause it was a tight fit under the exhaust manifolds. It's heading out to the drive-ins with not the fastest car but a machine you put time and knowledge into that equated itself well. It's about being with like minded guys that competed both on the roads and the drag strips. You won some, got your a$$ kicked some and met and enjoyed an experience with a bunch of "friends".

That's what I mean by not getting old at 74. If I wanted to just go fast, I'd buy fast. But the time in the pole barn with my vehicles is my younger years and fond memories. I have a lot of other good memories too but the cars I build are what I like and I'm staying young.

If you don't get it, my sympathies. If it's a lack of understanding then it's not my problem. Everytime I push the accelerator on one of my older cars I'm getting younger.

Avanti, Bob

[SN-60]

I used to own a '73 Avanti II with the 400" low performance engine. It was a very rare 4 speed version. Even with a 2 barrel carburetor, it had lots of torque. It was fun to drive and it was plenty quick. So, I have to ask...why to we need more and more horsepower as seems to be the fashion? Or am I getting older?

We don't!,....... Those mid 70's Avanti ll's with the 400 CI engine will 'dust' the average R2 Studebaker Avanti....up to a certain point anyway! (Been there, Done that!)

[Xcalibur]

We ALL pick our poison and all decide when too much is enough.

[Skip Lackie]

Like most discussions on the forum, it's almost impossible to change others opinions. Big horsepower vehicles of the 60's and early 70's had a visceral aspect that just doesn't exist in the newer vehicles. The newer cars are smoother, faster, quieter and handle much better. The older ones were rough, harsh, loud and overall just left an impression the newer ones can't match. I think that's what a lot of we old folks remember.

The memories get better as the kick in the a$$ increases. If you don't have the memories or didn't care for the experience then the whole thing is meaningless. It's not about can I beat the Bimmer in the next lane or buy a Hellcat/Demon off the showroom floor that will kick your a$$ because I can do either but it's not the memories.

The memories are nights in the garage over the fender with tools possibly burns on the back of your hand cause it was a tight fit under the exhaust manifolds. It's heading out to the drive-ins with not the fastest car but a machine you put time and knowledge into that equated itself well. It's about being with like minded guys that competed both on the roads and the drag strips. You won some, got your a$$ kicked some and met and enjoyed an experience with a bunch of "friends".

That's what I mean by not getting old at 74. If I wanted to just go fast, I'd buy fast. But the time in the pole barn with my vehicles is my younger years and fond memories. I have a lot of other good memories too but the cars I build are what I like and I'm staying young.

If you don't get it, my sympathies. If it's a lack of understanding then it's not my problem. Everytime I push the accelerator on one of my older cars I'm getting younger.

Avanti, Bob

Thanks Bob. Nicely stated.

[Skip Lackie]

Being that that 74 is over 40 years old, in most states you can "update" and get rid of the early attempts at emission control-sapping that beast of any hope of breathing. An intake, a TBI, electronic distributor, would make it much more enjoyable without a Fort Knox investment.

You raise an interesting point. Since you are talking about a 74 model, I believe you are correct. Although the feds had already established emissions standards in 1974, I don't believe they had required the installation of any particular emissions-reduction equipment until the catalytic converter requirement in 1975. So theoretically, you can update your engine as long as you don't increase its emissions over the limit. And since almost no states impose emissions tests on vehicles made before 1976, there's no way they can enforce it anyway.

However, AFAIK, the federal mandate requiring catalytic converters on 1975 and later vehicles has never been rescinded. In addition, emissions standards were repeatedly tightened after that year. While most of us register our old vehicles as antiques (and thereby get exempt from emissions testing), I wonder whether anyone is still driving a 1970s-80s car: (1) with regular plates, and (2) in a state that conducts emissions testing of vehicles that old. If so, do they check for a catalytic converter?

[StudebakerGene]

Sweetolbob definitely echo's a lot of us "Old Timers" sentiments, I remember working all week to get ready for the Friday night "street races." The trash talk all week. everyone coming by to check on your progress. The new cars coming out at the dealerships were something I will never forget, especially the winter of 1967 when I saw my first Hemi powered Dart. Can you believe they made a car like that? I had just gotten my license and drove my 1957 Chevrolet 210 sedan up to talk about a trade, they threw me out! Not only didn't I have the almost 3K that they wanted for it and the $45 a week I was making before taxes wasn't nearly enough to evidently waste their time, I at least did a burnout when I left to show my dissatisfaction....never have owned a Mopar I guess because of that and the fact that they rusted like crazy! I know there are a lot of Mopar fans out there and don't get me wrong, I think Mopar built some of the baddest cars out there. I had a fellow employee that bought a brand new 1969 Roadrunner and drove it to work all proud, he loaded all of us he could get into it and subsequently commenced to show us what it would do. At I guess about 110 MPH all the paint on the hood literally blew off in a big sheet, paint, what little primer was there and all. I never will forget the look on his face when we pulled over. Needless to say he had to have a brand new car repainted, something I wouldn't have stood for--- "Mopar, no car, no paint"

[48skyliner]

"
However, AFAIK, the federal mandate requiring catalytic converters on 1975 and later vehicles has never been rescinded. In addition, emissions standards were repeatedly tightened after that year. While most of us register our old vehicles as antiques (and thereby get exempt from emissions testing), I wonder whether anyone is still driving a 1970s-80s car: (1) with regular plates, and (2) in a state that conducts emissions testing of vehicles that old. If so, do they check for a catalytic converter?"

Washington state may be different from many states, as emissions testing has always been required only in areas with high population density. I live in a more or less rural area 30 miles east of Seattle, and no testing is required for cars registered here. The policy for as long as I can remember was that if your car passed the tailpipe testing, there was no inspection of the engine compartment. Also anything over 25 years old requires no testing, regardless of where you live. Of course now it is all done with the OBD2 or later type plug in diagnostics on modern cars.

I just want to point out as I may have said before that my fabricator friend Sean has been building exhaust systems for over 40 years, and he always puts a cat on everything he builds for me because he says it provides more noise suppression for less flow restriction/back pressure than any other type of device you can use. He typically pays 50-75 dollars for an aftermarket cat from his supplier.

[Skip Lackie]

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Washington state may be different from many states, as emissions testing has always been required only in areas with high population density. I live in a more or less rural area 30 miles east of Seattle, and no testing is required for cars registered here. The policy for as long as I can remember was that if your car passed the tailpipe testing, there was no inspection of the engine compartment. Also anything over 25 years old requires no testing, regardless of where you live. Of course now it is all done with the OBD2 or later type plug in diagnostics on modern cars.

That's the normal system. The feds only require emissions testing in the geographic areas or political jurisdictions (cities, counties) that are not in compliance with the air quality standards. States can test elsewhere if they want. They can also exempt vehicles that are more than 25 years old and/or have antique/historic plates, as their contribution to air quality is considered to be insignificant.