Here's your chance to fight ethanol in gasoline

[Skip Lackie]

From SEMA:
"U.S. Congress Introduces Bill to Prohibit E15 Sales

Legislation (HR 1315) has been introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives to prohibit the sale of E15 (gasoline that is 15% ethanol), capping the amount of ethanol that can be blended into conventional gasoline at 10%. The bill also eliminates the Renewable Fuel Standard’s (RFS) mandate that requires 15 billion gallons of corn-based ethanol be blended into the U.S. fuel supply each year. Ethanol, especially in higher concentrations such as E15, can cause damage to older vehicles.

You Can Shape the Course of This Proposal

Request support for this legislation by using the following SAN website link for an overview and lawmaker contact."

http://semasan.com/page.asp?content=aa2017FED1&g=SEMAGA&utm_source=ET&utm_medium=email&utm_content=52223448&utm_campaign=LegAlert

[jnormanh]

From SEMA:
"U.S. Congress Introduces Bill to Prohibit E15 Sales

Legislation (HR 1315) has been introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives to prohibit the sale of E15 (gasoline that is 15% ethanol), capping the amount of ethanol that can be blended into conventional gasoline at 10%. The bill also eliminates the Renewable Fuel Standard’s (RFS) mandate that requires 15 billion gallons of corn-based ethanol be blended into the U.S. fuel supply each year. Ethanol, especially in higher concentrations such as E15, can cause damage to older vehicles.

You Can Shape the Course of This Proposal

Request support for this legislation by using the following SAN website link for an overview and lawmaker contact."


http://semasan.com/page.asp?content=...paign=LegAlert

No thanks. I, for one, do not fully oppose the addition of ethanol to gasoline, just as I don't oppose the elimination of lead.

The use of ethanol cuts two ways:

It reduces our dependence on foreign oil. That's a good thing.

It uses what could be food for automobile fuel. That's a bad thing.

What it does not do is damage ancient car parts.

The claim that 10 or 15 % ethanol in gasoline "damages" old, and by that I mean ancient cars is unproven.

Yes, parts of 40-50-60-70 year old cars deteriorate. Is that the fault of the modern fuel, or do those cars just need proper maintenance? Not long ago one member of this forum whined because the original fuel hoses on his 43 year old car leaked. He implicated modern fuel. FORTY THREE YEAR OLD HOSES LEAKED? LOL!!!

I own a 58 year old car. The carbs, fuel lines, tank and fuel pump were done 20 years ago. It's been on gasohol ever since. No problems. None. Zero. NADA.

I suggest you check the motives of your source.

[Bud]

I'm going to argue about the effects of alcohol in gasoline. I've had to replace the carburetors on both my lawn mower and gas string trimmer because of corrosion caused by the effects of ethanol. I've also seen corrosion in AFB carburetors such as corroded floats and corrosion in the bottom of the float bowls which I never saw in my carburetors before the introduction of ethanol into the gasoline . There is a reason that companies like Gates rubber have re formulated their fuel hose to reduce the effects of ethanol and subsequent deterioration of the hose. New cars and light trucks now have plastic gas tanks and intake manifolds to reduce problems with the use of ethanol. Alcohol belongs in good Scotch and not in my gas tanks. Bud

[Dick Steinkamp]

The battle is on. The oil companies that elected politicians vs the agribusinesses that elected politicians.

[jnormanh]

The battle is on. The oil companies that elected politicians vs the agribusinesses that elected politicians.

LOL!!

I wish one of them would pay me.

Nonetheless, I do think it's reasonable to replace fuel hoses, brake hoses, radiator hoses and the like every few decades whether you believe they need to be replaced that frequently or not.

Call me meticulous, but I change my underwear and socks every few months, even if they have not blown out or rotted away. Must be all the ethanol I consume that makes that necessary.

[Kurt]

No thanks. I, for one, do not fully oppose the addition of ethanol to gasoline, just as I don't oppose the elimination of lead.

The use of ethanol cuts two ways:

It reduces our dependence on foreign oil. That's a good thing.

It uses what could be food for automobile fuel. That's a bad thing.

What it does not do is damage ancient car parts.

The claim that 10 or 15 % ethanol in gasoline "damages" old, and by that I mean ancient cars is unproven.

Yes, parts of 40-50-60-70 year old cars deteriorate. Is that the fault of the modern fuel, or do those cars just need proper maintenance? Not long ago one member of this forum whined because the original fuel hoses on his 43 year old car leaked. He implicated modern fuel. FORTY THREE YEAR OLD HOSES LEAKED? LOL!!!

I own a 58 year old car. The carbs, fuel lines, tank and fuel pump were done 20 years ago. It's been on gasohol ever since. No problems. None. Zero. NADA.

I suggest you check the motives of your source.

b

Ethanol does not cut into the food supply. The by products from ethanol are used for animal feed. We eat the animals for food. So actually you get food and fuel. That's a pretty good deal in my book.

[Kato]

No thanks. I, for one, do not fully oppose the addition of ethanol to gasoline, just as I don't oppose the elimination of lead.

The use of ethanol cuts two ways:

It reduces our dependence on foreign oil. That's a good thing.

It uses what could be food for automobile fuel. That's a bad thing.

What it does not do is damage ancient car parts.

The claim that 10 or 15 % ethanol in gasoline "damages" old, and by that I mean ancient cars is unproven.

Yes, parts of 40-50-60-70 year old cars deteriorate. Is that the fault of the modern fuel, or do those cars just need proper maintenance? Not long ago one member of this forum whined because the original fuel hoses on his 43 year old car leaked. He implicated modern fuel. FORTY THREE YEAR OLD HOSES LEAKED? LOL!!!

I own a 58 year old car. The carbs, fuel lines, tank and fuel pump were done 20 years ago. It's been on gasohol ever since. No problems. None. Zero. NADA.

I suggest you check the motives of your source.

I have to take exception the the statement regarding ethanol in fuel "What is does not do is damage ancient car parts." If you are using your own experience as a "source" to determine this fact that is pretty weak science! I strongly suggest you buy and read Randy Rundle's "The Official Guide to Modern Gasoline and Oil for Antique Vehicles". Randy has a tech article in this month's issue of TWs and he is an excellent "source" for determining what the issues with ethanol in gasoline are (www.fithaveinternetgarage.com)

The bad news is there are most definitely issues and damage done to any car built prior to 1980 using "gasahol". It attracts moisture from the atmosphere for example and can lead to corrosion of fuel system components. It also lowers the boiling point of the gas which leads to vapor lock which we are hearing more and more of. There are other issues as well, that's the bad news. The good news is there are measures which can be taken to mitigate or eliminate the problems. For example, adding one pint of diesel fuel for every 10 gal of "gasohol" will raise the boiling point to a level that may eliminate vapor lock! There are lots of little tricks and great advice in his book that for 15 bucks is worth every cent!

As for the politics of this issue I am Canadian so I can't help there but I did read one study from Western Canada that determined that the energy and pollutants used to grow and harvest the corn out weighed any benefits. But then again if the corn wasn't produced it would have been another crop so I am honestly not sure either way. What I am sure of is the alcohol in modern gasoline definitely DOES cause issues with our older vehicles.

[toymobile]

The fuel millage is reduced by "gasahol".

Have played around with racing all of my adult life and the rule of thumb is if you use alcohol you need to double the jet size in carbs, only sounds logical to me that it takes more "gasahol" to do the same job that pure gas will do that relates to MORE MONEY out of my pocket to take that road trip or go visit my grand kids or even to go buy the food we all need.

Just my 2 cents

Johnny

[Kato]

One thing I found interesting in Randy's book is that the EPA did not mandate the use of ethanol but made a list of requirements of the auto industry and the manufactures determined ethanol to be the best way to achieve those standards. I wonder what some of the other options were?

[Skip Lackie]

It reduces our dependence on foreign oil.

I think I would dispute this statement -- as being somewhere between unproven and incorrect. It will probably remain unproven because Congress had prohibited the EPA from investigating whether ethanol in gasoline: (1) improves air quality, and/or (2) is a good idea, on a cost-vs-benefit basis. Adding ethanol to gas reduces gas mileage, and probably reduces exhaust emissions -- but does the increased petroleum consumption outweigh the improvement in air quality? We don't know.

And if the cost in dollars and petroleum usage of producing and shipping the corn and ethanol are included, does it actually reduce oil imports overall? We don't know. Corn is a very water- and fertilizer-intensive crop, and fertilizer is made from petroleum. Ethanol must be distilled, which requires a lot of oil. And it must be shipped, which requires a lot of oil. Would the land now dedicated to growing corn be used to grow something else that requires just as much petroleum? We don't know. Or would those now engaged in the corn and ethanol industries otherwise be on welfare? We don't know.

A truly objective study would be complicated and would be contentious, so as Dick Steinkamp said, the lobbyists will certainly get involved and the one with the most money will probably win.

[Kato]

"A truly objective study would be complicated and would be contentious, so as Dick Steinkamp said, the lobbyists will certainly get involved and the one with the most money will probably win."


YEP! That's how politics works in both of our countries!

[bumpkinvilledano]

If turning corn into alcohol is so cost effective, why does my local moonshiner get about $20 per quart for his product?

I must be getting bamboozled.

[Kato]

If turning corn into alcohol is so cost effective, why does my local moonshiner get about $20 per quart for his product?

I must be getting bamboozled.

I think we are all getting bamboozled one way or another.. At least yours leaves feelin' good!

[GTHawk]

The fuel millage is reduced by "gasahol".

Have played around with racing all of my adult life and the rule of thumb is if you use alcohol you need to double the jet size in carbs, only sounds logical to me that it takes more "gasahol" to do the same job that pure gas will do that relates to MORE MONEY out of my pocket to take that road trip or go visit my grand kids or even to go buy the food we all need.

Just my 2 cents

Johnny

It helps our farmers but I do not think it benefits car drivers. you need to check your milage with straight gas verses ethanol. My experience has been you use just as much gas per mile with 10% alcohol as if you were using all gasoline. It seems not to be effective to put it mildly.

[lugamatic]

Skip to answer part of you question, us corn growing farmers were not on welfare before ethanol and will not be if it is not produced. To me all the talk about ethanol is mute for any easy and cheap fix is to add a little atf oil to you gas tank on about every 2nd or 3rd fill up.