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**stall** · 03-02-2017, 03:52 PM

I agree with Bob; Mr. Rowe is a powerful advocate for the skills that are needed in the country. BTW, after viewing it I reflected on the fact that Bob must be gun-shy as I cannot imagine how anyone could object to this interview and the points made IMHO.

M

**Packard53** · 03-02-2017, 04:23 PM

Mike Rowe is wrong on one statement he made in that video about making America Great Again. AMERICA IS ALREADY GREAT has been and always will be. I do agree with Rowe on several points he made in the video.

John S.

**jclary** · 03-02-2017, 04:44 PM

I saw that interview. Pretty straightforward without choosing a political side in my opinion. Instead, a rather pragmatic view..."gotta make work cool again!"

I recall when folks proudly wore work uniforms

, service station attendants, car hops, delivery drivers, taxi drivers, etc. Some of the most mundane jobs involved a certain amount of professional decorum, pride, and a communication vocabulary.

Now...mumbling potheads

with head to toe tattoos, flip flops, and enough piercings to stock a scrap yard.

Yeah...we need to figure out a way to make work "COOL."

...agan

**Chris Pile** · 03-02-2017, 04:47 PM

Between Mike and bike builder Jesse James, I'd say the coolness of working with your hands has been upped by several notches here in the US. Let's hope it takes...

**8E45E** · 03-02-2017, 05:22 PM

Funny he goes on and on ranting about school counselors.

I did mention them in my post here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...onger-relevant

Craig

**BobPalma** · 03-02-2017, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Chris Pile View Post

Between Mike and bike builder Jesse James, I'd say the coolness of working with your hands has been upped by several notches here in the US. Let's hope it takes...

AMEN to that, Chris.

BP

**Green 53** · 03-02-2017, 07:29 PM

I'm a strong advocate that many kids would be far ahead going into the trades rather than college. So many come out with loads of debt and no job. Here in Glendale, AZ the Glendale Community college has auto mechanics programs sponsored by Ford, GM, and Fiat-Chrysler. A job is waiting for them when they graduate.

Denny L

**lark55** · 03-02-2017, 09:31 PM

I agree with everything Mike Rowe says, however, I think that being an auto mechanic today and having to work on today's cars is extremely demanding. There just isn't enough room to work.

**hausdok** · 03-03-2017, 02:00 AM

Originally posted by lark55 View Post

I agree with everything Mike Rowe says, however, I think that being an auto mechanic today and having to work on today's cars is extremely demanding. There just isn't enough room to work.

I agree.

These days, there are trades where a hard-working guy or gal with a basic high-school education, and a willingness to apply themselves, can make far more in their first year out of school than many four year graduates can make in their first year out of school.

Many kids don't know that though. Their schools have shut down their trades programs and many of these kids these days spend half their time dinking around with game consoles and tech, thinking that they're going to be the next dot com guru. Most won't make it very far in that world. The oil-boom days of personal computing and dot com are long gone now; in fact they have a glut of programmers and the more efficient they keep making things work the fewer personnel are needed. Hell Microsoft just laid off more than 8,000 employees and it didn't hurt their bottom line at all - their still producing more and more of what they do. Don't get me wrong; some of these tech company guys make very good bank, and are solidly in the upper middle class; but they and are probably going to be there for the duration, unless something else comes along that will be the next personal computer or the next Windows. I don't think it's that likely, though. Things like that seem to come and go in surges, like waves, we were up there on top in 1997 but the tide went out and now the tech industry these days is kind of like whatever it is they do in office building cubicles - settled into a steady routine of normalcy instead of eureka moments.

I have a number of multi-millionaire clients who are constantly buying real estate who were in on the early tech and dot com stuff. They are filthy rich and constantly getting richer because they got in on the bottom floor. I also have thousands of clients who work at these same tech companies now as programmers and what-have-you; and they are in the low to middle middle class and aren't likely to go much higher very soon. I've talked to them about it. They shrug their shoulders - kind of a "day late and a dollar short" resignation dominates this group.

Some of these techies I've met have teenage children. I see them sitting there as I'm going through the home. They'll be spread-eagled on a sofa shooting monsters on the big screen instead of going outside on beautiful days or heading out to an after school job. I just shake my head. Every once in a while I'll engage one in conversation: "Going to College when you graduate?" "Yep." "What are you going to major in?" "Computer science." They think that since their Dad managed to do OK they'll do better. Not sure about that.

See lots of chubby kids these days too(I'm being polite). When we were kids there were always one or two chubby kids in a class but it was nothing like it is today. Today, most kids I see are in what we would politely term "husky" when I was kid when we didn't want to refer to someone as fat. Back then, it was the old farts like I am now that would be the fat folks, not the kids. Now I think, at least from what I observe - that the ratio must be about 50/50 overweight teenagers versus overweight adults. Hell, some of us old farts are thin compared to some of the parents these days - it's scary, I was thinking about that the last time I got on a plane to fly somewhere. S'funny, when I'd talked to the lady that booked my seat I'd told her, "I'm a chubette. I'm going to need a seat that's fat-guy-friendly. OK?" She chuckled and said she'd take care of it. Boy did she (NOT!), I found myself in the center seat wedged in between two guys. Now, my doc has told me that I need to lose at least 50 pounds. I definitely fit the mold of the old farts I remember way back in the day; but those guys on either side of me? Whooey, they made me look like a lightweight. Those two were were definitely members of the North American Beef Trust. As we were accelerating down the runway, I glanced around the cabin, sized up the other folks in the cabin and suddenly wondered if the pilots had taken into account today's average adult weight versus what I'd been taught to figure for adult weight when I went through ground school waaaaay back in 1977. (These days I can't even remember what that was - 180 maybe?) I actually held my breath until I felt the plane roll upward. I'd been secretly convinced it wasn't going to get off the ground unless about half the passengers deplaned, and had figured we were going to plow right through that barricade. It was a big relief when I looked out the window and saw the end-of-runway barrier pass under the plane. Very uncomfortable four hours - I never want to be that close to another guy again. The only thing that gave me solace was the secret victory I felt when those two had to ask the stewardess for seatbelt extensions and I didn't need one- hooyeah!

Young folks in most of the trades today seem to be far paid better than they were when I got out of school. In high school I spent two years going through an auto mechanics course at the B.O.C.E.S. academy in Arlington (Poughkeepsie) NY. After graduation, I was constantly frustrated by the way they paid mechanics in those days. I had a formal education as well as years of street education on cars by then; and I was easily turning out as many paid hours a day as the best and most experienced old school "mechanics" in the shop. Yet, I couldn't get equal pay.

I was "the Kid." Instead of putting me on the Chryslers where I could have generated some really decent income for the shop, they stuck me on the Toyotas. Don't know why, but the same number of paid hours on Toyotas in those days never netted nearly as much revenue as repairs on those Chrysler products. Old Chet, the shops "master" mechanic, would come in walking unsteadily and smelling like whiskey every morning, lean against a car smoking between four and eight cigarettes, after he clocked in but before he even opened his tool box, and then he would move around the shop all day like a sloth, coffee cup always full - cigarette always drooping from his lip - stopping every five minutes to talk for fifteen minutes and always taking twice as long on the official sit-down coffee breaks than anyone else - all without a single word from the Service manager.

After a few months of demonstrating to them that I actually did know what I was doing and could turn out good work. I finally got up the nerve to ask for a raise. The Service Manager said, "What for? You just got here." I said, "Well, because I've been keeping track and I know for a fact that I'm turning out far more paid hours on those Toyotas than Chet is doing on those Chryslers. Take me off those Toyotas, put me on the Chryslers and I guarantee you that in six months, after I've figured out all of the little idiosyncrasies of those Chryslers, I'll be out-producing him on the Chryslers. So, raise me to 2/3 of what you are paying him and let's make a deal that you'll pay me what you are paying him six months later, IF I equal or exceed his weekly paid flat rate hours." The Service Manager said, "What? You want us to pay you what we pay Chet, just 'cuz you produce more paid hours? No way! Chet's an experienced mechanic; you're a kid. Chet has a mortgage; you split the cost of a cheap apartment with a buddy. Chet is the only automatic transmission tech we've got." I said, "No he isn't. I've fixed a bunch of 'em. All you have to do is let me show you I can do 'em." He said, "What, and piss Chet off 'cuz you took jobs we're supposed to reserve for him? No way." "Well, I should be getting at least double what I'm being paid now and that will still be only 60% of what you're paying Chet. That would be fair, since I'm producing more paid flat-rate hours."

The service manager looked at me like I'd just escaped from an asylum and said, "But you're a Kid! Nobody pays anyone your age that kind of money, I don't care how good you are. You're a kid! Tell, you what. We'll increase your hourly rate $.25 an hour now and another $.25 six months after that. Then, if you're still here after two years, an additional $.50. By then you'll be making 150% of what you were making when we hired you." I said, "Yeah, and that will still be only about a third of what you're paying Chet, because you are giving him plenty of paid overtime; and by then I'll have two years experience here and will be producing a whole lot more hours than I am now. How do you see that as fair?" He was pissed off by then, "Hey, Mike, how many times do I have to tell you this, you're-a-f*****g-kid! Ain't no way anyone is going to pay you that kind of money. Get married, have some kids, buy a house, get a mortgage and then come back and see me and we'll talk." I sucked it up and went back to work. At least I'd make enough extra for a case of beer every week.

At the one year anniversary I went in and demanded they double my salary. When they didn't, I packed my tools into my car and drove down to Brookfield, CT and off-loaded them at a different Toyota dealer's shop. I'd been to visit that dealership the previous weekend. They worked half a day on Saturdays and I caught the Service Manager at his desk enjoying his pipe. I asked him if they were looking for any experienced mechanics. He said to me, "Kid, you don't look old enough to be an "experienced mechanic." I need a mechanic but he needs to be a Toyota mechanic. These cars are smaller and take some getting used to." I said I was a Toyota mechanic and a damned good one too. He looked like he didn't believe me, so he then set about asking me a bunch of questions about different things on Toyotas, about various recalls, about little tips and tricks for certain maladies. I answered them all easily.

He finally said, "Well, it sure sounds like you know your Toyotas, when can you start?" I said, "I can start when I know I'll be paid a fair wage and won't be taken advantage of just because I'm a "kid." He said, "Well Mike, I want you to come work here; but I can't pay you as much as our top guy - he's got a wife and kids and a mortgage to pay, you know - but I really need an experienced Toyota guy. so, show me a pay stub for whatever they are paying you an hour at Greer's and I'll double it for starting pay and add a buck to that a year later. That's the best I can do for now." It was good enough. A year and a half later I purchased an ARCO Service Station contract in my home town, where I gave the other two local repair shops a real good run for their money - until I had a car accident and broke my femur. I sold the shop. Then once I got healed up it was back to Toyota again.

For the next few years I was still "the Kid" and still wasn't afforded the same respect, and pay, as the top old school guys, even though I was doing as much, and often more, paid flat rate hours than most others, but I moved around from Toyota dealer to Toyota dealer; always squeezing more out of the next than I'd been making at the prior. Still, it wasn't that great, so I augmented my income by working for my father, a custom builder, on nights and weekends. I managed to buy my first new car - a 1970-1/2 Pontiac Firebird Formula 400 - and made enough to pay my share of the rent and utilities, keep food in my stomach, clothes on my back, make my car payment, pay my car insurance, keep gas in the tank, keep enlarging my tool collection, put a little away in the bank every week and still have enough left over to party. It was OK but it wasn't great. Then about the spring of 1975 - right around the time they first started coming out with the N.I.A.S.E. stuff - I had had enough, chucked the whole thing and went into the military.

There was one course that I considered a really good mechanic's course back then at a place called Vale Tech in Vale, PA. It was a 14-month intensive course - 7 months learning auto mechanics and then 7 months learning auto body repair. Cost was steep for those days. I thought about going there after high school but it was just too expensive for me in those days, so I just put it out of my mind. These young auto-mechanic school graduates these days have to know just about as much about programming as some Microsoft Tech before they can get out of school. Then, to enhance their credibility when they say they can do something, they are tested and certified in those aspects of the trade that they want to add to their resume' in order to demand pay commensurate with their skill set. What a change from the old days! I've talked to a few youngsters and they are making good bank - right out of school - at rates equal to anyone else in their shop that produces the same level and quality of work.

Kind of makes me wish I'd hung around a while in '75. By the time I got out of the military computers were in limited use in the specialty I was in and in short supply. I could barely use a word processor to type a letter by the time I got out; and found myself baffled by all the tech stuffed under the dash and hood of my cars whenever I lifted the hood. Twenty years later I'm still a techphobe and can barely get by with these damned things. Guess it's a good thing we have those trades these days where a fellow working hard and working honestly can do well without that sheepskin, or I'd be royally screwed.

Now if we could just get more of these young folks - especially some of these inner-city youth - to take an interest in the trades and realize that they can do as good, if not better out of the chute than most of these young folks with sheep skins are doing, we might be able to turn this thing around. If we don't manage to swing these kids toward the trades, we're going to be like Saudi Arabia someday. Ever shaken hands with a Saudi man? Their hands are soft and fleshy like the hands of teenage girls who've never lifted a finger around the house, helped with the chores or played any sports. Even their "tough" guys like the cops and their soldiers have those hands!

They are so unused to doing any sort of physical labor or fixing anything that they bring in foreign contract laborers and tradesmen from Bangladesh or Indonesia to fix everything and ply the trades that none of them have learned how to do - like fix cars, work construction, work the oil fields. Those are jobs reserved for their imported help. They house those workers in these little cramped immigrant-labor villages surrounded by walls - kind of like the American compounds for the Aramco employees, but way smaller and basically like living in a labor camp. In 1991 our company had to spend several weeks living in one of those compounds while we cleaned our gear and prepared to return to Europe after Desert Storm. We had less than 200 people housed in an area that the Saudis said would normally accommodate 500 and we were cramped as hell. They finally moved us to Kobar Towers where we stayed in luxurious western-style apartments that were new and vacant - yep the same towers that were blown up with the Marines in them years later. The Saudi men I saw basically don't lift a finger to do much of anything except drive their cars, stand around in groups socializing and drinking tea and talking all day. They make their "living" by collecting their monthly allotment from the state. I'm sure there are some of them working in banks and jewelry shops and other places where there is no physical labor involved and they won't get their spotless white robe thingies dirty, but one thing you aren't going to see them do is do something that will get them dirty and cause them to have to exert themselves. If we keep on the path we're going, not producing enough tradesmen and producing too many techies that don't want to get dirty or exert themselves, that's going to be us someday - only there won't be a monthly check coming to us every month by way of oil money we did nothing to personally earn.

**8E45E** · 03-03-2017, 05:05 AM

Originally posted by lark55 View Post

I agree with everything Mike Rowe says, however, I think that being an auto mechanic today and having to work on today's cars is extremely demanding. There just isn't enough room to work.

Besides the lack of a 'mechanic friendly' working environment we now see under the hoods and dashes of new vehicles, if someone wants to start up their own 'all-make' repair garage, be prepared to shell out lots of $$$ for diagnostic equipment (code readers, etc.), special tools, and other repair devices to service them.

Craig

**bezhawk** · 03-03-2017, 07:09 AM

I agree that not everyone is suited to a college degree. The thing that irks me is the anti education tilt of politics today. That is to say, it is demonized as being elitist. Never stop learning or striving to be better. That's my creedo.

**BobPalma** · 03-03-2017, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by bezhawk View Post

I agree that not everyone is suited to a college degree. The thing that irks me is the anti education tilt of politics today. That is to say, it is demonized as being elitist. Never stop learning or striving to be better. That's my creedo.

Yes and no, Brad.

To a goodly extent, upper education elitists have fostered any "anti" upper-education tilt in politics or the culture by setting themselves up as the know-it-alls too many of them envision themselves being due to the Certificates of Superior Knowledge & Intellect wallpapering their ivory-tower offices; testaments from fellow academics as to how smart all of them are.

Humility has never been one of their stronger suits; if they don't want to be treated as elitists, they shouldn't act like elitists.

You're admonition to never stop learning is much appreciated, it's just that most "real" learning doesn't take place in a formal school environment, IMHO. Those who won't acknowledge the value of others who have lived life in The Real World (not you, I know!) short-change themselves as to being wholly and truly educated.

In my lifetime (age 71 two weeks ago), I've learned every bit as much -if not more- from people without a formal education as from people with a wad of diplomas in their portfolio.

BP

**BobPalma** · 03-03-2017, 02:44 PM

Proudly and happily worn part-time from 1966-1971. It no longer fits and the dry cleaner did their best to clean it this week, but with limited success:

(If you think it is stained and dirty now, you should have seen it after hanging in the closet for 45+ years!)

BP

**BobPalma** · 03-03-2017, 04:17 PM

Mike, I just took the time to read your entire Post #10. Most interesting; thanks.

By chance did you look youthful when you were being treated like a "kid?" I'm not being funny; some guys just look younger than others. It would seem that such a condition would work against your desire to be accepted as knowledgeable and worth the money you asked for.

Your closing comments comparing us to the Saudis might not be far-fetched, I'm sorry to say.

Thanks again for the interesting dissertation.

BP

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Mike "Dirty Jobs" Rowe Nails It

Mike "Dirty Jobs" Rowe Nails It

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