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Thread: Packard club wants to join local SDC chapter

  1. #1
    Silver Hawk Member Chris Pile's Avatar
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    Packard club wants to join local SDC chapter

    OK, here's the deal. The Wichita area Packard, Hudson, and Studebaker chapters have been friendly for 15 years or so - planning and enjoying events for all 3 clubs. However, the Packard club believes that they are dying. They want to join OUR club. While we enjoy these folks immensely (we even share 3 couples in both clubs), what will be the ramifications for truly merging with us? Must they join the SDC and Midway Chapter? What about clubs monies? Merge bank accounts? How much power would we allot them as new members? This could get sticky.

    Does anyone have some real world answers for me? We will be talking about this subject at our chapter meeting this weekend.
    The only difference between death and taxes is that death does not grow worse every time Congress convenes. - Will Rogers

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    President Member Lou Van Anne's Avatar
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    Our future is showing!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Pile View Post
    OK, here's the deal. The Wichita area Packard, Hudson, and Studebaker chapters have been friendly for 15 years or so - planning and enjoying events for all 3 clubs. However, the Packard club believes that they are dying. They want to join OUR club. While we enjoy these folks immensely (we even share 3 couples in both clubs), what will be the ramifications for truly merging with us? Must they join the SDC and Midway Chapter? What about clubs monies? Merge bank accounts? How much power would we allot them as new members? This could get sticky.

    Does anyone have some real world answers for me? We will be talking about this subject at our chapter meeting this weekend.
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    President Member bob40's Avatar
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    Some of us in our local chapter have discussed it figuring it would happen in the future in our area..
    We are expecting it.
    Mono mind in a stereo world

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    Speedster Member Jett289's Avatar
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    You know what happened the last time Studebaker and Packard merged ,,, Just kidding..
    Love my Lark

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    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    That COULD be a bit awkward, but I think it could work.

    The way I personally see it is this; since they own and care about Packards, (all years including Detroit Packards) they are eligible to join the SDC, actually EVEN if they do not.

    "Studebaker Related Vehicles": Packards, post Stude. Avantis, Rocknes, Erskines, EMF's, Flanders, and certain years of Pierce Arrows are allowed to participate and be displayed or Judged in Zone Meets, International Meets, Car Shows and certainly YOUR Events etc.

    So First they must join the International SDC Organization, then they would have to swallow their Pride and give up the "Packard" Name and not try to be involved in running your local SDC Chapter or re-naming it, but they could JOIN and hold offices when an Election comes up.

    They would still be free of course to belong to the International Packard Club, but would have to belong to BOTH International Clubs if that is their choice.

    Whether I have seen that process correctly or not, a Zone Coordinator or Director could help you make sure you follow the "Rules" and do it correctly.
    Last edited by StudeRich; 01-12-2017 at 10:45 PM.
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    Disband the packard club, have them join an "inclusive" local Studebaker club that welcomes independent owners that don't have a local club. Owning a stude is not a membership requirement.

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    There will be a point in time where each area starts an Orphan Car Club. Some sooner than others. Be open, accepting. make the best of it and have fun.

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    My goodness. Why is anyone limited to membership in just one car club? SDC Membership is open to anyone, Right? They don't HAVE to own or to drive a Studebaker to become SDC members, Right?
    If you get along socially, invite them to join the SDC Club (paying SDC membership dues), get together, and accept that your friends may be driving a different make on any day, and have a good time. The cars gathered out in the parking lot really won't give a damn. Rather obviously anything that is NOT a Studebaker cannot be judged as a Studebaker.
    Does it really matter if they show up in their Nash, Hudson, Edsel or Borgward?

    Can't help but wonder how many 'purists' actually drive ONLY Studebakers when attending their local SDC events. .... when the roads are salted and its 10 degrees out.
    Last edited by Jessie J.; 01-12-2017 at 11:42 PM.

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    Silver Hawk Member Chris Pile's Avatar
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    I'll be checking with Frank Van Doorn and Chuck Donkle I guess.
    The only difference between death and taxes is that death does not grow worse every time Congress convenes. - Will Rogers

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    President Member StudeNewby's Avatar
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    Hear hear! Last November we held a meet in Raleigh and our chapter (Eastern NC) invited the local Packard and Mercedes-Benz clubs as guests. I was pleasantly surprised at the willingness of the Packard folks to come, although in the end they were unable to drive their Packards to the event. Perhaps there is a "thawing" of the sometimes-chilly relationship between aficionados of the marques? I hope so. By all means a way to welcome them into your fold should be found.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie J. View Post
    My goodness. Why is anyone limited to membership in just one car club? SDC Membership is open to anyone, Right? They don't HAVE to own or to drive a Studebaker to become SDC members, Right?
    If you get along socially, invite them to join the SDC Club (paying SDC membership dues), get together, and accept that your friends may be driving a different make on any day, and have a good time. The cars gathered out in the parking lot really won't give a damn. Rather obviously anything that is NOT a Studebaker cannot be judged as a Studebaker.
    Does it really matter if they show up in their Nash, Hudson, Edsel or Borgward?

    Can't help but wonder how many 'purists' actually drive ONLY Studebakers when attending their local SDC events. .... when the roads are salted and its 10 degrees out.

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    WRT money. Most SDC local chapters are, legally, not-for-profit corporations, and the other clubs may be too. If that is the case, then presumably someone has been filing simple tax returns with IRS. That creates a record that needs to be closed out. As legal entities, the assets are supposed to be liquidated and/or transferred once the "corporation" goes out of business. If you're only talking about a few hundred dollars, you could probably get away with throwing a big party or refunding it to members -- I doubt that the IRS would show up at the door. But someone should probably file one final form stating that the organization has been dissolved.

    If the money is worth keeping, then the club treasurer(s) should file a return(s) with the IRS showing how the assets were transferred to the surviving not-for-profit corporation. I doubt that Big Brother really cares, but it's probably worth taking the effort to close the legal loop.

  12. #12
    Silver Hawk Member Chris Pile's Avatar
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    Excellent point, Skip. Thank you for that, and my first education of the morning (looked up WRT meaning).
    The only difference between death and taxes is that death does not grow worse every time Congress convenes. - Will Rogers

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    President Member swvalcon's Avatar
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    Why not keep it simple and let the packard club stay the packard club and just have joint meetings and do club activates together.

  14. #14
    Silver Hawk Member Chris Pile's Avatar
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    Why not keep it simple and let the packard club stay the packard club and just have joint meetings and do club activates together.
    (A) Because they asked nicely...

    (B) Because I can think of several scenarios in which that will NOT work...
    The only difference between death and taxes is that death does not grow worse every time Congress convenes. - Will Rogers

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    President Member swvalcon's Avatar
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    Ok just a thought. The biggest problem you would run into on my idea that I can see is you always run into a couple people that always want to be large and in charge. That can ruin things in a hurry.

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    President Member BShaw's Avatar
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    As others have noted, the Packard folks would be required to join the SDC to preserve your charter and ensure things like SDC insurance for your meets and chapter officers. If such a "merger" were to happen I suppose the chapter name would be modified (Midway Studebaker-Packard Club?). I believe there is precedence for this... the Studebaker-Packard Club of the Nederlands is an SDC chapter. You might check with George Hamlin on that. Anyway, that would square you away with the SDC. Of course, if the incoming members wanted some continuing relationship with the national Packard Club (other than their individual memberships in it) that would be a significant issue to be figured out by your Midway people.

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    Silver Hawk Member Milaca's Avatar
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    Perhaps the day will come that the Studebaker Driver's Club and the International Packard Club will need to merge (within the next decade or two?). Just as the two automobile companies merged to attempt to become financially stronger, perhaps the two clubs merging would be of great benefit one day.
    However, I do not know how strong the Packard club is, as I assume they are a much smaller club with membership dwindling faster than the Studebaker club.
    Perhaps it would need to be a more grand merger, like that which made American Motors? Merge the clubs of Studebaker, Packard, Nash, Hudson...but where do you draw the line? So many possibilities and so many potential problems....

    In the middle of MinneSTUDEa.

  18. #18
    President Member Lou Van Anne's Avatar
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    I don't see the need for SDC and ASC being separate organisations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milaca View Post
    Perhaps the day will come that the Studebaker Driver's Club and the International Packard Club will need to merge (within the next decade or two?). Just as the two automobile companies merged to attempt to become financially stronger, perhaps the two clubs merging would be of great benefit one day.
    However, I do not know how strong the Packard club is, as I assume they are a much smaller club with membership dwindling faster than the Studebaker club.
    Perhaps it would need to be a more grand merger, like that which made American Motors? Merge the clubs of Studebaker, Packard, Nash, Hudson...but where do you draw the line? So many possibilities and so many potential problems....
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    For OBVIOUS historical correctness & accuracy, The Packard chapter should be taking over the Studebaker chapter.

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    SN--60, I agree, and then drop the Packard name in a few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul shuffleburg View Post
    SN--60, I agree, and then drop the Packard name in a few years.
    Ha-ha!!!!......FUNNY!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lou Van Anne View Post
    I don't see the need for SDC and ASC being separate organisations.
    I never understood this myself. I like seeing the pre war studebakers at meets!

  23. #23
    President Member clonelark's Avatar
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    I really like orphan shows, I see a lot of neat cars i would not normally see. I'd like to see a national orphan club. I own 3 different orphans, Henry J, Crosley and Studebaker, but more Studebakers.
    101st Airborne Div. 326 Engineers Ft Campbell Ky.

  24. #24
    President Member 57pack's Avatar
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    Could form one large group of all independent vehicle manufacturers as membership dwindles, as they will.
    Upcoming generations have little knowledge or interest in vehicles manufactured before their times. No connections other than what we teach them. In my case my grandaughter is probably the only one in her fourth grade class who knows of Packard and Studebaker. Because of the time she spends with PopPop in the garage.
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  25. #25
    President Member hausdok's Avatar
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    I'll bet there is at least one lawyer in one of those chapters. Contact the guy and ask him/her how it needs to be set up to work.
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  26. #26
    President Member Lou Van Anne's Avatar
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    There is a joint Studebaker-Packard Club in the Netherlands that is recognized as a chapter of SDC.
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  27. #27
    President Member Avantidon's Avatar
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    There are a lot of excellent points in this thread and I personally believe that it an issue that needs to be discussed by the SDC Board. There is merit to a joint Studebaker/Packard club and well worht exploring at the national level by both organizations.
    See you in the future as I write about our past

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    Silver Hawk Member Chris Pile's Avatar
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    I'll bet there is at least one lawyer in one of those chapters.
    That would be Roger in the Packard club...
    The only difference between death and taxes is that death does not grow worse every time Congress convenes. - Will Rogers

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    Maybe some members that have been involved with SDC since early times could shed some light on previous "merges". I believe there was at one time a Studebaker Owners Club or something like that. Why it was started when there was SDC I don't know. I do believe after some period of time that club joined with SDC. Can anyone shed some light on that?

    ASC I believe was started by Bill Cannon. There are times when our chapter has tried to have an event, and invariably someone pops up with a "conflict" with an event that the ASC is holding at the same time. I don't know if it will happen with ASC and SDC ever combining but as time passes, I could see a benefit for that to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clonelark View Post
    I really like orphan shows, I see a lot of neat cars i would not normally see. I'd like to see a national orphan club. I own 3 different orphans, Henry J, Crosley and Studebaker, but more Studebakers.
    Orphan encompasses a WHOLE lot more today...Plymouth, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Mercury, Saturn...need I go on...Dodge pickups, OK I'll stop.
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  31. #31
    Silver Hawk Member Chris Pile's Avatar
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    Well, the members talked it over yesterday and decided that we'll invite the Packard club to our March meeting for a "Meet and Greet" to discuss absorbing their members. Turns out there IS precedence for such a thing - it's happened here and in Europe. I'll keep this thread updated.
    The only difference between death and taxes is that death does not grow worse every time Congress convenes. - Will Rogers

  32. #32
    Silver Hawk Member Chris Pile's Avatar
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    I'd like to thank Chuck Donkle and Frank Van Doorn (North Central Zone honchos) for their wise input on this matter. While I was initially opposed to the Packard guys coming into our chapter, it seems to be acceptable to Midway members, and there is substantial precedence for Packard clubs being absorbed by Studebaker clubs in the past. So we shall see what we shall see....
    The only difference between death and taxes is that death does not grow worse every time Congress convenes. - Will Rogers

  33. #33
    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6hk71400 View Post
    Maybe some members that have been involved with SDC since early times could shed some light on previous "merges". I believe there was at one time a Studebaker Owners Club or something like that. Why it was started when there was SDC I don't know. I do believe after some period of time that club joined with SDC. Can anyone shed some light on that?

    ASC I believe was started by Bill Cannon. There are times when our chapter has tried to have an event, and invariably someone pops up with a "conflict" with an event that the ASC is holding at the same time. I don't know if it will happen with ASC and SDC ever combining but as time passes, I could see a benefit for that to happen.
    Bob Miles Tucson AZ
    Aren't we starting to mix Apples with Oranges here Bob with your suggestion?

    I did not see the involved Local Wichita Chapter Members talking ANYTHING about merging the actual entire International Organizations!

    What you are talking about is a International Organization (Packards International) or whatever they are called, which would be the same as the Studebaker Owners Club Inc. The Studebaker Society (both of which DID merge with SDC), or the Antique Studebaker Club, or the Avanti Owners Association International, Internationally MERGING with the SDC, at this time I don't see that happening.

    What IS considered is just a few Members from ONE chapter of the Packard Club signing up with the Local SDC Chapter and the SDC International Organization, which is no different to US anyway, as any New member with no Classic Car, a Chevy, plans to buy a Stude. or whatever who is interested in our Cars signing up.

    No Local or International change at all!
    StudeRich
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    Dear Rich,

    I was not advocating anything of the sort. All I raised was a question about what had happened in the past. I do not think it would ever happen with the Packard group and Studebaker Drivers Club. I have talked to some "Packard People" in the past and believe it or not, they are still mad about October 1954. I did not think my statement was ambiguous or even considered as a suggestion. I was curious what did happen in the past with the another club merging into the Studebaker Drivers Club. Since you have a background in the club much longer than I have maybe you can shed some history on how that happened to work.

    I also was just echoing what others had said about the ASC, with no call for action.

    I do like fruit salad to eat though. Thanks for allowing me to clear that up and again, if you or anyone could share the history of what had happened years ago when there were two separate clubs please do. If anyone thinks this deserves a separate thread that would be fine too.

    Bob Miles
    Tucson AZ

  35. #35
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    I do not claim to know all the details regarding the mergers or demise(s) of other Stude clubs, but my recollection is that a few people were unhappy with either SDC or its leadership (we were all a lot younger then) and decided to start their own club. The ones that I remember were mostly focused on a particular geographic area, though they had pretentions of national coverage. They withered away after a few years and a few newsletters -- publishing a real newsletter with real content is both time-consuming and expensive. My suspicion is that they simply dissolved, though they may have formally merged with SDC (ie, turned their treasury and membership list over to SDC). I joined one or two of them out of curiosity and don't remember ever getting a formal announcement of dissolution/merger. I think I still have a couple of their newsletters in my archive somewhere.
    Last edited by Skip Lackie; 01-17-2017 at 03:37 PM.
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  36. #36
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    Thanks Skip,

    I knew of a club sometime in the past but did not know anything about the details. There will I guess always someone that may be unhappy; that is why if someone is they should run for office. I figure that is probably not the case here with the local Packard/Studebaker club in Wichita.

    I am working with the board of our local chapter as well to increase our presence in Tucson. We just had our banquet and now have 4 new members. There is not a local chapter of the Packard Club. We do hope to have our cars out in the public but also want to include people interested in history that don't own a Studebaker.

    Chris, let us know from time to time how your efforts are working.

    Bob Miles
    Tucson AZ

  37. #37
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    Just a thought on a grander scale...

    With the "aging" (dwindling, let's be realistic) of most of the antique car clubs (I think the only club that's actively growing and gaining younger membership is Volkswagen), this merging idea might be the future of the old car hobby. Maybe it's time for all of the smaller, specialized car clubs (Stude, Packard, Hudson, etc, etc) to consider merging into a conglomerate. I'm starting to think that that might be the only way for the future of the old car hobby (as a whole) to continue to grow and survive as time goes on.

    There is no Packard club in this area. But, the local AACA Chapter here in Tallahassee is getting old and dwindling. One of the younger guys (in his 60's) likes to stay active with his antique car hobby, and since he already has a few Packards in his collection, he joined the local SDC Chapter so he can continue to be involved with a local, active group. He ended up buying a '29 President so he could be even more involved.

    I'm all for it.
    Last edited by mbstude; 01-17-2017 at 09:55 AM.

  38. #38
    Silver Hawk Member Chris Pile's Avatar
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    Chris, let us know from time to time how your efforts are working.
    Well, the appointed day has finally arrived - not without some work on my part, and a lot of false starts and misunderstandings on the part of others involved. Even yesterday, some Packard folks were crying about having to fold their charter (I didn't say they had to).

    As it turns out, only 2 Packard club members showed (that were not yet members of the SDC). Others had planned on attending, but illness and other problems kept them away.

    I once again made my pitch of welcome, taking pains to point out that the SDC and Midway Chapter didn't want their money or their cars, and they weren't going to have to sacrifice a small animal. All they had to do was fill out membership forms, pony up some cash, and join in the fun.

    Both fellows agreed that it was a good idea, and said they would urge the other Packard chapter members to accept our offer of friendship. So..... now we wait.
    The only difference between death and taxes is that death does not grow worse every time Congress convenes. - Will Rogers

  39. #39
    Silver Hawk Member Guido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skip Lackie View Post
    I do not claim to know all the details regarding the mergers or demise(s) of other Stude clubs, but my recollection is that a few people were unhappy with either SDC or its leadership (we were all a lot younger then) and decided to start their own club. The ones that I remember were mostly focused on a particular geographic area, though they had pretentions of national coverage. They withered away after a few years and a few newsletters -- publishing a real newsletter with real content is both time-consuming and expensive. My suspicion is that they simply dissolved, though they may have formally merged with SDC (ie, turned their treasury and membership list over to SDC). I joined one or two of them out of curiosity and don't remember ever getting a formal announcement of dissolution/merger. I think I still have a couple of their newsletters in my archive somewhere.
    Skip,

    I was a member (and District Governor) of the Studebaker Automobile Club of America in the mid 1970's. They were based out of Hemet, CA and published a magazine along with newsletters. As I recall, they folded after a couple of years.

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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post
    Skip,

    I was a member (and District Governor) of the Studebaker Automobile Club of America in the mid 1970's. They were based out of Hemet, CA and published a magazine along with newsletters. As I recall, they folded after a couple of years.

    Gary
    From now on, I'm gonna address you as "governor".

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