64 Avanti Granatelli R4 Information Selling?

[R4Seller]

I am trying to figure out the value for the Avanti and R4 engine at this link....http://www.studebaker-info.org/AVDB1...1xaoai045.html. The owner passed away and this car was inherited by a family member who has interest in selling it. I am looking for any kind of help in setting a price for this 64 Avanti and R4 engine. Through my research and knowledge of the classic car market, I've come up with a value, although this Granatelli R4 engine is something that is hard to put a price on. The car is well documented and has won numerous awards at car shows. I'm open to hear from anyone interested in buying it as well. Please serious inquiries only. The owner would rather sell this to someone who will appreciate it's history. They do not want to list at auction or eBay. I have set up a separate email for this at R4seller@yahoo.com. Thanks.

[Peddler]

I am a little confused are you saying this car left the factory with the R4 engine? If so it would be valuable, otherwise it is just another Avanti that has been modified. Even with a period correct R4 engine, it is interesting but I don't see it as particularly more valuable. Maybe I am missing something.

[SN-60]

If the original R1 engine is still part of the deal, (Mr. Kamphefner mentioned in his write up that he retained this Avanti's original engine), it might make sense to re-install that original R1 and sell this '64 Avanti in 'original condition'....Most serious collectors are looking for original, "numbers matching" Avantis.

Then the Granatelli supplied R4 engine, a TRULY rare item, could be auctioned off as the RARE oddity it is....(and no doubt bring BIG bucks!!)

[StudeRich]

Wow that neat story by long ago friend and Orange Empire Chapter Member Dick Kamphefner, must be REALLY Old, as he died quite a long time ago.

[53k]

If the original R1 engine is still part of the deal, (Mr. Kamphefner mentioned in his write up that he retained this Avanti's original engine), it might make sense to re-install that original R1 and sell this '64 Avanti in 'original condition'....Most serious collectors are looking for original, "numbers matching" Avantis.

Then the Granatelli supplied R4 engine, a TRULY rare item, could be auctioned off as the RARE oddity it is....(and no doubt bring BIG bucks!!)

I'm inclined to agree with this analysis. Selling a nice late '64 R-1 Avanti (with all the running changes) with air and a four-speed should bring somewhere in the upper $20,000 range or maybe more (I haven't really kept up on values). Certainly true '64s tend to be worth more than '63s because they represent only about one-fifth or the total Studebaker Avanti production.
I own a new R-4 engine, serial B-78, which is on display at the Studebaker Museum in South Bend. I had it sold one time for $40,000, but the buyer couldn't come up with the cash so I left it where it is. While you might have some possible buyers that would want the package and would pay a premium price for it, your market will be much larger with people being interested in the nice original 1964 R-1 and a separate market of those interested in the R-4 engine with other plans in mind. So, I think selling the car and the engine separately would bring more money that the car with the R-4 installed. Of course, that depends on how much would be involved in re-installing the original R-1 and have it in good running condition.

[StudeRich]

/Cut/So, I think selling the car and the engine separately would bring more money that the car with the R-4 installed. Of course, that depends on how much would be involved in re-installing the original R-1 and have it in good running condition.

That would be after you have the '64 Lark/Hawk R4 Oval Emblems removed that Dick put on the Front Fenders!

[StudeMichael]

Guys!! Seriously? Some things mean more than money, Like, "At 120 back off the accelerator and then floor it-this is a treat that few will experience and none will forget". R1's are nice for Grandma.

R4 seller says, "The owner would rather sell this to someone who will appreciate it's history. They do not want to list at auction or eBay".

[sals54]

If its a bonafide Granatelli installed R4, then its as good as factory. All this stupid arguing about whether it rolled off the assembly line like that is bulloney. The Granatellis were authorized Studebaker performance gurus who made cars better and faster. If they built this car under the auspices of the Studebaker brand, then it certainly qualifies as a factory correct installation.
This whole line of contention is ridiculous. Authorized IS authorized. Look it up in the dictionary.... Oh wait.... I already did: Authorized. approved, recognized, sanctioned; accredited, licensed, certified; official, lawful, legal, legitimate

[SN-60]

If its a bonafide Granatelli installed R4, then its as good as factory. All this stupid arguing about whether it rolled off the assembly line like that is bulloney. The Granatellis were authorized Studebaker performance gurus who made cars better and faster. If they built this car under the auspices of the Studebaker brand, then it certainly qualifies as a factory correct installation.
This whole line of contention is ridiculous. Authorized IS authorized. Look it up in the dictionary.... Oh wait.... I already did: Authorized. approved, recognized, sanctioned; accredited, licensed, certified; official, lawful, legal, legitimate

Sal,......you really should've taken the time to read Mr. Kamphefner's article before you posted. The R4 engine install WAS NOT done by the Granatellis! The installation was done privately...DEFINITELY NOT authorized by Studebaker!

Add to this equation that Mr Kampherfner's relative, (who's now selling the car), may still have the original matching numbers (RK303) R1 engine, it certainly does make good sense to re-install the R1, sell this nice '64 Avanti "per original",......... then sell the R4 on a "stand alone" basis.

Keeping this Avanti 'as is' is fine too,.....but I predict that the R4 engine will eventually be removed by someone anyway! (esp if the original R1 is truly still available)

[nels]

Personally I think that R4 should stay in the car. It certainly looks great in there and it was done in the spirit of genuine Studebaker performance, that's for sure. Nice job!

[t walgamuth]

I'm with Nels. I would not change the engines. I'd keep it as it is, a rare modified car with a very rare desirable engine. I'd sell it with the original engine as a part of the deal and enjoy it as it is in the mean time.

[SN-60]

As an aside,....the installation of this genuine R4 engine that (then owner) Dick Kamphefner installed into this '64 Avanti reminds me of the story about the genuine R3 engine that George Krem privately installed into his '64 Challenger!

I wonder if George saved the original 'numbers matching' 259 his Challenger was built with?

[StudeMichael]

Would you guys be advising the seller to put the R1 engine back in the car if the owner had installed a Granatelli built R3 crate motor instead of an R4?

[Jessie J.]

This one has a unique and well documented 'history' of its own. As it stands, it is an extremely rare, complete and functional, authentic R-4 (B-22, not a phony R-4 'clone' engine, of which there have been many) powered Studebaker. Swapping this engine into any other vehicle at this late date would be pointless.
(with perhaps the exception of whatever Avanti Bill Burke may have used it in. Does anyone here own THAT Bill Burke Avanti? Is it sitting in 'need' of engine B-22?)
Alternatively, the R-4 engine once extracted will end up in some wealthy collectors 'stash', a non-functional and useless rich boy's toy, or permanently gathering dust on an engine stand in some museum. The Studebaker National Museum in South Bend already has an original R-4, and has no need of another.
Let whoever thinks they wants that engine bad enough, pony up the $$$$$ to buy the car, and the unique heritage and history that only goes with that Avanti.
My opinion. If you cannot appreciate this vehicle, and do not want that, you are a clod that simply does not deserve the privilege of purchasing this vehicle nor its engine.

[SN-60]

Would you guys be advising the seller to put the R1 engine back in the car if the owner had installed a Granatelli built R3 crate motor instead of an R4?

If Paxton had installed an R3 (OR an R4) NO!...because then it would be a 'factory' R3-4 Studebaker Avanti assuming either of those engines was under its hood when Studebaker sold the car to a private party..........................but privately installed, as this R4 was....YES (even if it were an R3 Mike!)