R3 heads flow rate

[BILT4ME]

I am loving this discussion, as I am in the process of trying to determine what route and level to go on my Lark VIII.

Keep it up guys!

[Gunslinger]

In the late '60s I was in high school and a dishwasher in a restaurant and the minimum wage was $1.15 per hour...so $725 was some serious money!

[PackardV8]

"Serious money" is a relative term. A new, complete R3 engine cost $725 in the late '60s, plus shipping. I purchased one from PP (# B86, I believe) then. Sure, $725 was a lot more then than now, but my status as footloose and fancy free then, and married now, (and retired) has a lot to do with the "relativity" of money too. -Dwight FitzSimons

FWIW, $725 in 1968 equates to $5000 in today's funny money.

jack vines

[SScopelli]

Has been a long, drawn out, and sometimes frustrating project...
(and I really had a hard time deciding whether to post this, knowing the attitudes of some on this forum)
But it is close to being ready to roll out.
Won't make any promises at this time.

Jeff,

1) Will this porting include matching up combustion volumes?
2) Are you going with Stock R1/R2 valves, R3 valves, or cut down R3s?

FWIW, $725 in 1968 equates to $5000 in today's funny money.

jack vines

725 oz silver @ $15/oz equals $10,875, since you mentioned the funny money..

[DEEPNHOCK]

No details at this time.....

Jeff,
1) Will this porting include matching up combustion volumes?
2) Are you going with Stock R1/R2 valves, R3 valves, or cut down R3s?

[Xcalibur]

Many, many years ago I published our results testing Ron Hall's 1988/1989 R-3 B'ville heads that had the slightest "warming over" (Ron's words) at 25" of water (note, not at 28#). We also did quite a few other Stude heads at the same time on the same machine. R.H.'s heads flowed 170 @ 0.60 lift, while a stock R-series head flowed 133 @ 0.55 lift.

[64Avanti]

170 cfm @ 25" H2O is about 180 cfm @ 28" H2O. Was this the final version of Ron Halls heads?

[bezhawk]

I'm not sure many know this, but if the R3's got the ported treatment from Paxton, the heads were stamped with seprate numbers on the top edge of the center exhaust port. I'm NOT talking about the raised casting number,, but a STAMPED number right near the gasket surface on the TOP edge. I believe it as the chamber volume in cc's

[Mike Van Veghten]

One thing I see missing from this whole discussion...valve seat angles !
I found during my experiments, that a four angle worked better (with specific angles), than a "normal" three angle even though the last angle in the throat is not a full 360 degree cut.

The question about chamber equalization...the chambers are fully machined stock. If Jeff is also reshaping the chambers (should be !) in his CNC work, they will "still" be fully machined, which makes them much closer than hand grinding..! Though with some work, they can be "hand ground" very close in size.

Mike

[swvalcon]

I've found on average you can build about double the hp of your intake flow numbers on most motors without to much work. Thats not taking into account superchargers or turbo's.or bottle baby's.

[PackardV8]

I've found on average you can build about double the hp of your intake flow numbers on most motors without to much work. Thats not taking into account superchargers or turbo's.or bottle baby's.

Would you agree the above approximation "horsepower = 2X intake CFM" is based upon CFM @ 28"? Over the years, that's become the de facto standard, but as below were some were given @ 25" and there are other flow numbers on the old posts from Jet City Studebaker brochures @ 10" and other misc on the net, one has to read carefully.

jack vines

[DEEPNHOCK]

Cool!
Double the HP of flow numbers without too much work?
Please... Show us... Let us know how. I am all ears. Really. Please.

I've found on average you can build about double the hp of your intake flow numbers on most motors without to much work. Thats not taking into account superchargers or turbo's.or bottle baby's.

[PackardV8]

Cool!
Double the HP of flow numbers without too much work?
Please... Show us... Let us know how. I am all ears. Really. Please.

Jeff, FWIW, the "horsepower = intake CFM x 2" pretty much holds true for the best science cams, intake manifolds and headers available for SBCs.

As Mike said earlier in this thread, it requires a better cam and intake to give the porting a chance to work. I've not found the X2 to be as reliable a prediction for Stude V8s using the old school R2+/ST5 regrinds, OEM intakes and R3 headers. It will be interesting to see how close to the X2 formula applies with the roller cams we got with Mike's buy, your custom aluminum Mopar intake adaptations and race headers will produce on the dyno.

jack vines

[swvalcon]

Jack That was what I found to be true back in the 90's when I managed my dads engine rebuild shop on lower end drag race bracket race motors and roundy rounders. Will admit most were not what you would call very street able but some did run 92 octane. One was a 460 ford in a 86 t-bird drag car that we ported the heads in shop with out a flow test and it made 510Hp and I think around 530 tq on pump gas was a somewhat heavy car and it ran 10.50's cam would have been a little big for the street but I've seen bigger being done. Never built a drag race Stude so not sure about those but they cant be far off. A 289 should do well if you could set up a roller cam and have good enough parts to twist it a little on the top end. The 377 chev we ran though the shop had a stock lower end with speed pros and hit right at 8000 RPM on every run. Was in a vega and ran low 10's at 128-129.

[PackardV8]

A 289 should do well if you could set up a roller cam and have good enough parts to twist it a little on the top end. The 377 chev we ran though the shop had a stock lower end with speed pros and hit right at 8000 RPM on every run.

Yep, agree, good enough parts are a must. To shift a Stude V8 at 8,000 RPMs reliably and make any power, in addition to the 200 CFM porting, it needs $1800 aftermarket Cunningham, Carrillo, Howards or Oliver rods, $1200 forged pistons and some very expensive valve gear. A very rough estimate is $10,000 to do everything as good as it can be, and that's just normally aspirated.

Not everyone can afford to live by the maxim, "If you're not breaking parts, you'll never find out how fast you could be." Some years back, rumor has it a SDCer built a $15,000+ twin turbo Stude V8 and then never ran it on the strip or dyno. He soon sold it, "It's too expensive to find out how much horsepower it will really make."

Those brave few who are racing their Stude V8s deserve our applause.

jack vines