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Thread: Installing FI TECH EFI on a 289..... UPDATE: FIRST DRIVE VIDEO....need driveshaft

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    Installing FI TECH EFI on a 289..... UPDATE: FIRST DRIVE VIDEO....need driveshaft

    So I ordered this EFI about month or so ago... promised a couple of members that i would post up my experience and install. Over the next week I and going to installing a EFI base carb, Fuel Command Center (basically external sump pump), and Electric Fan.

    Already installed Dave T's Mallory Unilite and wire set, 3 wire alternator, rad from a 280z, dan simmions SS exhaust w/ med tone mufflers.

    Here is the first box I am tackling. EFI unit, coolant sensor, oxygen sensor, running wires and the like



    more pictures coming as I get things done

    - - - Updated - - -

    10/28/15

    Where to get started... well pull off what you have on there now

    Anybody interested in a 1403 Carb? Installed but not used SOLD


    Here is where is all starts:


    for this EFI carb base to fit you will need an adapter plate, I got my from summit racing a long time ago.... part number is on this forum somewhere


    But before I get ahead of myself, tonight I am just getting familiar with the equipment, bolting it on, loosely fitting wires, seeing where I want to run things. Seeing if I will run into any problems before I start. Found one right off the bat (next picture)


    the new coolant temp sensor is bigger that the original. Any ideas on a fix... I was thinking about taking the plate of the back of the head and drilling and threading for the larger sensor or heading to lowes and adapting somehow.
    Last edited by what huh; 03-07-2016 at 10:18 AM.
    1960 Champ 1/2 Ton powered by 289/T98

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    President Member r1lark's Avatar
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    Good deal Charles!! Can't wait for your reports.
    Paul
    Winston-Salem, NC
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    If anybody has any questions or wants some more specific pictures or something just let me know. Ill do my best to answer them
    1960 Champ 1/2 Ton powered by 289/T98

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    President Member r1lark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by what huh View Post
    the new coolant temp sensor is bigger that the original. Any ideas on a fix... I was thinking about taking the plate of the back of the head and drilling and threading for the larger sensor or heading to lowes and adapting somehow.
    FWIW, I would be concerned that using an adapter would pull the a 'business end' of the coolant sensor further out of the water flow. Tapping the plate for the larger sensor should be pretty easy as long as you can find a NPT tap that size.
    Paul
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1lark View Post
    FWIW, I would be concerned that using an adapter would pull the a 'business end' of the coolant sensor further out of the water flow. Tapping the plate for the larger sensor should be pretty easy as long as you can find a NPT tap that size.
    agree with possible pulling the sensor to far away or possible having not water flow pass the "business end"

    I am going to take the plate off and weld a NPT bung on to it, that way the sensor will be in the same position as the original and have water flow all around the part of the sensor that takes the reading

    I have access to a full welding/hydraulic shop at work
    1960 Champ 1/2 Ton powered by 289/T98

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    Space might be a problem at back of head.try drill and tap heater hose lug on water manifold. Luck Doofus

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    President Member 5brown1's Avatar
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    Could it be mounted in a spacer in a radiator hose?

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    Bravo!! For forging ahead on this project.

    Are you able to control ignition timing with your setup, I know the EFI can, and what fuel delivery option did you chose?

    As you and others have said, a true indication of actual temperature is a must so I like the solution to place the temp probe directly in the coolant flow.

    Avanti, Bob
    , ,

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    President Member ndynis's Avatar
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    Great Thread!
    I have been sitting on the fence about trying this on my Wagonaire. I'm not real smart when it comes to the computers and engines. There weren't any in 1964 the last time I was active doing my own engine work. The idea that this setup "tunes" itself rather than needing a laptop and the smarts to do it manually made me very interested. I like the Hamilton because of the good experience others on this forum have had with it but the ignition setup with the laptop makes me uneasy about making the leap.
    Will this unit work with Mr. T's distributor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by what huh View Post
    agree with possible pulling the sensor to far away or possible having not water flow pass the "business end"

    I am going to take the plate off and weld a NPT bung on to it, that way the sensor will be in the same position as the original and have water flow all around the part of the sensor that takes the reading

    I have access to a full welding/hydraulic shop at work
    The sensor looks like a typical GM item, no need to put it in the rear of a cylinder head, just needs to be close to the thermostat, then you can leave the original sender there and use it for your gauge. Lots easier to get to and hook up that way. Perhaps drilling and tapping an extra outlet on top of the water manifold where room exists near the t'stat housing?
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    Last edited by karterfred88; 10-29-2015 at 11:16 AM.

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    President Member 5brown1's Avatar
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    On my 37 with SBC I have an aluminum spacer just below the thermostat housing about 1.25" thick which was tapped for a sensor. You could make one. I don't remember where I purchased it but it is visible in the picture
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Commander Member silverhawk1958's Avatar
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    Subscribed, I am very interested to see how this works out. Best of luck! Will you be adding any kind of forced induction?

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    Speedster Member Bradford's Avatar
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    Subscribed. Want one too

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    Quote Originally Posted by ndynis View Post
    Great Thread!
    I have been sitting on the fence about trying this on my Wagonaire. I'm not real smart when it comes to the computers and engines. There weren't any in 1964 the last time I was active doing my own engine work. The idea that this setup "tunes" itself rather than needing a laptop and the smarts to do it manually made me very interested. I like the Hamilton because of the good experience others on this forum have had with it but the ignition setup with the laptop makes me uneasy about making the leap.
    Will this unit work with Mr. T's distributor?
    as far as getting this EFI unit to control timing, unfortunately not. Still need to set the timing with a light once she fires the first time.

    Quote Originally Posted by silverhawk1958 View Post
    Subscribed, I am very interested to see how this works out. Best of luck! Will you be adding any kind of forced induction?
    I did purchase the EFI carb that can handle forced induction for future plans.... as of right now I will be running NA for awhile.
    1960 Champ 1/2 Ton powered by 289/T98

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetolbob View Post
    Bravo!! For forging ahead on this project.

    Are you able to control ignition timing with your setup, I know the EFI can, and what fuel delivery option did you chose?


    Avanti, Bob
    Ill be using FI Techs FCC its an external sump pump system. Ill be posting a picture of it in tonight update


    Also, think I might be on to something with the coolant sensor. There is a flat spot on the water manifold on the drivers side. possible drill and tap that location? We will see
    1960 Champ 1/2 Ton powered by 289/T98

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    well that flat spot is a possibility but if I am going to do that work and buy a 3/8NPT tap I might as well get a thermostat neck spacer with s 3/8NPT port in it already.

    Ordered this from summit http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mez-wn0028u

    Now I can work on other things while I wait for that to arrive. EST Nov 2-3

    P.S. : I have no clue why I thought it was 1/2npt .... it is 3/8npt
    1960 Champ 1/2 Ton powered by 289/T98

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    Speedster Member garrilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by what huh View Post
    So I ordered this EFI about month or so ago... promised a couple of members that i would post up my experience and install. Over the next week I and going to installing a EFI base carb, Fuel Command Center (basically external sump pump), and Electric Fan.

    Already installed Dave T's Mallory Unilite and wire set, 3 wire alternator, rad from a 280z, dan simmions SS exhaust w/ med tone mufflers.

    Here is the first box I am tackling. EFI unit, coolant sensor, oxygen sensor, running wires and the like



    more pictures coming as I get things done

    - - - Updated - - -

    10/28/15

    Where to get started... well pull off what you have on there now

    Anybody interested in a 1403 Carb? Installed but not used $250 shipped


    Here is where is all starts:


    for this EFI carb base to fit you will need an adapter plate, I got my from summit racing a long time ago.... part number is on this forum somewhere


    But before I get ahead of myself, tonight I am just getting familiar with the equipment, bolting it on, loosely fitting wires, seeing where I want to run things. Seeing if I will run into any problems before I start. Found one right off the bat (next picture)


    the new coolant temp sensor is bigger that the original. Any ideas on a fix... I was thinking about taking the plate of the back of the head and drilling and threading for the larger sensor or heading to lowes and adapting somehow.
    I drilled and taped a hole on the right side of the water pump housing between the heater hose outlet and the water pump pump bolt.
    Gary

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    Speedster Member garrilla's Avatar
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    I should add that there is a couple of pictures on my profile page in the "New Wiring" album.
    Gary

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    Got the oxygen sensor bung welded on my exhaust


    Installed: little difficult taking pic under truck.... warning crappy pic


    Here is the fuel system I am using, it is basically a stand alone high pressure system that get feed by you stock mech fuel pump or anything that feeds it around 5 psi. It get a low pressure feed in, it has a high pressure-internal regulated fuel pump inside that is controled by the EFI base carb. Pretty nifty actually



    and the mount for it



    I plan on cleaning up the engine bay once everything has been tried and tested... with either wire loom or what have you. As a reminder that I am sure none of you need... Any new wires should be routed with the stock wires so that it looks like you were never there. Also, .... please solder your connections, less headache down the road.

    tomorrow I am planning on making a mount for the fan and starting on the wiring. FI TECH has done a great job with labeling everything
    1960 Champ 1/2 Ton powered by 289/T98

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    Little 10/30/15 update. I did get the fan mounted and all the wiring done.

    To be honest, this sucker is very easy to install. Its just a matter of doing the work, so far I have about 3 hours of actual work into this install.

    No pictures tonight, not really anything picture worthy. Doing some yard work tomorrow, might not hear from me till sunday

    Next update will have coolant sensor install, running fuel lines, double check install, fluids
    1960 Champ 1/2 Ton powered by 289/T98

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    Silver Hawk Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    When installing mine, for the CTS, I installed a 'T' at the heater outlet in the waterpump manifold. For the o2 sensor, I was told to locate it about 6" from the exhaust manifold flange, so I did. The biggest PITA was running the fuel lines.

    Vaporlock is nil because there is no carb bowl, and the fuel is always circulating rapidly; the heat is transferred back to the gas tank via the return line. On a hot summer day, after 100 miles of rolling down the interstate, the tank itself heats up noticeably, if touched with fingertips. The little "sump pump" will provide for a submerged pump, and avoid slosh problems. But with tiny capacity and located in the engine bay, it is not likely to transfer much heat, if driven like a regular car, in hot weather.

    If, by "command center" you mean the ECU, I'd be concerned about excess heat with it located in the engine bay. I placed mine inside the car, on top of the AC evaporator.
    Last edited by JoeHall; 10-31-2015 at 09:01 AM.

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    RE: Coolant Temp Sensor

    It appears there is a spot next to the thermostat on the drivers side that you can drill and tap a hole for your sensor.

    You need to keep the OEM sensor so your temp gauge works...

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    Silver Hawk Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrickyRick View Post
    RE: Coolant Temp Sensor

    It appears there is a spot next to the thermostat on the drivers side that you can drill and tap a hole for your sensor.

    You need to keep the OEM sensor so your temp gauge works...
    Yep, that is where the heater fitting is located on AC equipped cars. The one on the passenger side sits under the AC compressor. Whichever side the OP's car has the heater fitting located on, it is simple to plug into it with a 'T' fitting. That way the water pump and housing do not need to be removed, and no machining required. Only about $10 in adapters from a hardware store. That setup has been working great on both of the GTs.

    Or,he could pull the motor and install the CTS in place of a block drain plug. Just depends on how much of a project the OP wants to make of the install. The CTS will do its job as long as it can sense coolant temp. It needs to be on the hot side of the thermostat, and where flow exists, otherwise, it will run rich.
    CTS.jpg
    Last edited by JoeHall; 10-31-2015 at 12:37 PM.

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    In reference to Putting a T in line of the heater hose... Is coolant flowing thru there even when that heater valve is not open?

    Also,... Putting sensor on the hot side of the thermostat.... Reason?

    And yes I need to move the oxygen sensor further upstream

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    Silver Hawk Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by what huh View Post
    In reference to Putting a T in line of the heater hose... Is coolant flowing thru there even when that heater valve is not open?

    Also,... Putting sensor on the hot side of the thermostat.... Reason?

    And yes I need to move the oxygen sensor further upstream
    No, coolant does not flow through that fitting when the heater is turned off, but there is enough swirl at that location to do the job in heating the CTS. As the coolant heats up, the CTS senses the heat and leans out the fuel. When coolant is cool, it richens the fuel, kinda like the choke on a carb. I believe it also sends a signal to the ECU, in order to adjust the timing, per coolant temp.

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    Then putting the CTS on on the coolant neck would work the same then... Being that the thermostat has a relief hole that allows coolant to bypass a closed thermostat

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    Silver Hawk Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by what huh View Post
    Then putting the CTS on on the coolant neck would work the same then... Being that the thermostat has a relief hole that allows coolant to bypass a closed thermostat
    I believe it should. I have seen such thermostat housings for SBC, already tapped for a CTS, but I do not think they would fit a Stude motor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHall View Post
    I believe it should. I have seen such thermostat housings for SBC, already tapped for a CTS, but I do not think they would fit a Stude motor.
    I understand where your comIng from now.

    I am taking a shot that the one I ordered will fit. I'm judging that on the fact that a SBC thermostat and gasket (felpro 35062) fit great on my 1963 engine

    If it doesn't fit then I will be modifing the heater outlet like you and saving the project of drilling/tapping the manifold for a weekend project when I am looking for something to do.

    I am trying to get this sucker running so that I can make it to Flemings Pumpkin Run on Nov. 7..... Anybody else going?
    Last edited by what huh; 10-31-2015 at 04:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHall View Post
    I believe it should. I have seen such thermostat housings for SBC, already tapped for a CTS, but I do not think they would fit a Stude motor.
    Certainly would fit on a '61 - '64 water pump manifold, which uses the same thermostat and gasket as a Chevrolet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Studebakercenteroforegon View Post
    Certainly would fit on a '61 - '64 water pump manifold, which uses the same thermostat and gasket as a Chevrolet.
    Sweet thanks bud

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    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    The only issue there is, you need to cut a recess in the New Chev. Housing or the Water Manifold to except the thermostat since the Chev. Engine T-Stat Housing has none like the Studebaker.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner




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    Quote Originally Posted by StudeRich View Post
    The only issue there is, you need to cut a recess in the New Chev. Housing or the Water Manifold to except the thermostat since the Chev. Engine T-Stat Housing has none like the Studebaker.
    Well, I thought we were talking about a spacer, tapped as needed, that would install between the water manifold and the thermostat housing. Thus the thermostat would be installed in the correct Studebaker t/stat housing with the spacer below.

  33. #33
    Silver Hawk Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Another thing I should mention, I run 195 degree thermostats, year round, in both of the EFI'd GTs. I understand it helps the CTS to do its job, by mimicking more modern engine temps, which the EFI was designed for.

    Even with AC, which both cars have, the 195 degree stat is no problem. Long as your cooling system is OK, a 195 should not be a problem for your Stude either.

  34. #34
    Silver Hawk Member Milaca's Avatar
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    This subject is very interesting, I look forward to the finished results. By the way, will a stock Studebaker air filter assembly fit onto this unit?

    In the middle of MinneSTUDEa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milaca View Post
    This subject is very interesting, I look forward to the finished results. By the way, will a stock Studebaker air filter assembly fit onto this unit?
    The only reference I have to a stock Studebaker air cleaner is for a 6 cyl ... I'll measure the opening when I get home

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    IIRC, the WCFB/early AFB 4-bbls as used on Studes have a 4-7/32" diameter air horn and the later AFB and Holley are 5-1/8". It's probable any aftermarket EFI would use the Holley air horn diameter, so most likely, no a Stude air cleaner wouldn't fit without an adapter ring. They're available from Summit/Jegs/usual suspects.

    jack vines
    PackardV8

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    Hi Guys..
    I have to say I was surprised to run across this topic as soon as I opened the list today.. I have been mulling over a TBI installation on my 63 R2 Avanti.. Mostly because I live at 9000+ feet in elevation and have real issues with running well at this or down into Denver because of wide elevation changes..
    I am not familiar at all with this brand kit but am impressed in what little research I have done on it.. Apparently it comes ready for blow through pressurization. Does anyone know if this will clear the hood with bonnet on an Avanti? By any chance anyone done this install..? How do I subscribe to a topic?
    Thanks all..
    Ron
    Ron Husak
    Conifer, CO
    Living at 9200 feet and lovin it!
    63 avanti R2 63R-2648

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronhusak View Post
    Hi Guys..
    I have to say I was surprised to run across this topic as soon as I opened the list today.. I have been mulling over a TBI installation on my 63 R2 Avanti.. Mostly because I live at 9000+ feet in elevation and have real issues with running well at this or down into Denver because of wide elevation changes..
    I am not familiar at all with this brand kit but am impressed in what little research I have done on it.. Apparently it comes ready for blow through pressurization. Does anyone know if this will clear the hood with bonnet on an Avanti? By any chance anyone done this install..? How do I subscribe to a topic?
    Thanks all..
    Ron
    I can't atest to driveability yet as I am still installing it but so far it has been a piece of cake of an install!

    Also if you are using for a blow thru application make sure you get the "power adder" version of the throttle body you choose.

    As far as clearance, can't help u for Avanti installation. I would imagine that it would work in some way, shape, or form even if you had to get a adaptor that dropped the air cleaner down. I'll measure total assembly height when I am done.

    With that much of an elevation change I would be going EFI just so I could enjoy the car whenever I wanted. IMHO

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    What Huh..
    Avanti's, well r2's anyhow use a remote air filter.. The bonnet from the supercharger fits directly on the air horn.. A cast piece.. Avanti's are very critical for carburetor to hood clearance due to low hood line.. Would like the measurements though..
    Thanks for the reply..
    Ron Husak
    Ron Husak
    Conifer, CO
    Living at 9200 feet and lovin it!
    63 avanti R2 63R-2648

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronhusak View Post
    Hi Guys..
    I have to say I was surprised to run across this topic as soon as I opened the list today.. I have been mulling over a TBI installation on my 63 R2 Avanti.. Mostly because I live at 9000+ feet in elevation and have real issues with running well at this or down into Denver because of wide elevation changes..
    I am not familiar at all with this brand kit but am impressed in what little research I have done on it.. Apparently it comes ready for blow through pressurization. Does anyone know if this will clear the hood with bonnet on an Avanti? By any chance anyone done this install..? How do I subscribe to a topic?
    Thanks all..
    Ron
    I'm just amazed at that fact that you need to drive "down" 4000 feet of elevation to get to Mile High Stadium. Thats funny.
    sals54

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