Volkswagon In Trouble With The EPA (Defeat Device Found)

[DEEPNHOCK]

This is a symptom of the Internet electronic age.....
Imagine your car knowing someone 'official' has plugged in and it changes the settings to pass the test?
Sort of like hiding the dishes and spraying Fabreze around when the locals show up....

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/09/18/441467960/volkswagen-used-defeat-device-to-skirt-emissions-rules-epa-says

[jbjr]

Man I got to get one in my cars. I bet the mpg went up to.

[t walgamuth]

I have to laugh but really 40 times as much pollution? Seems impossible.

[BobPalma]

I have to laugh but really 40 times as much pollution? Seems impossible.

Agreed. "...40 times as much pollution?" You'd think they'd be smoking worse than perceived diesels of old if that were the case.

It does say "up to 40 times as much," so maybe there is a small window in the total run cycle where it spikes to that extent....but if so, only rarely. Probably a misleading statement...or at least easily mis-interpreted... BP

[Dougie]

All joking aside, if VW intentionally altered the computer to trick emissions this would be inexcusable.

[jclary]

All joking aside, if VW intentionally altered the computer to trick emissions this would be inexcusable.

Sure gives me incentive to look into buying a NEW VW. Anything that sticks it to a bunch of dimwit elitist "Barney Fife" paper pushers can't be all bad! Besides, all the VW Diesels on the road, probably don't emit as much pollution as a herd of farting cows on a single large cattle ranch. I'd like to see one of those officials try to ram a "sensor" up one of THOSE exhausts!

[t walgamuth]

I wonder if the people at the top knew of it? I could see an independent minded nerd doing it to win a productivity prize or such. It certainly goes against the image I would expect from VW as a responsible, adult car provider.

[Jeff_H]

Some of you know I work for a well known maker of green and yellow tractors. I recalled seeing some internal company engineering graph a few years ago that compared the relative amounts of diesel emissions permitted under various "tiers" for off highway diesel vehicles. I recall the tier 4 was a tiny amount as compared to a pre-emissions control engine. I asked someone who works in the engine controllers group about this and 40X seems about the same as going from current tier 4 specs back to the old tier 1 specs. Tier 1 specs started in 1996.

This chart is publicly available and shows a comparison of each tier from 1 to 4. Tier 0 (no controls) would be much higher I expect.



I am given to understand the on-highway specs are very similar but were put in place sooner as compared to off-highway.

I wonder if these cars are using a lot less of that DEF fluid than they should be and this is how it got noticed? I have not read the articles as of yet.

EDIT: Found another chart showing all the tiers compared to pre-emissions:

[Dick Steinkamp]

I wonder how many other car companies are doing exactly the same thing and haven't been caught (yet).

[Mikado282]

Most of the government bureaucrats who do 90% of running the country are a bunch of clueless idiots. One time I bought a bunch of computers in the mid 90's that booted up as belonging to the IRS. They were very interesting. Some of them even had cracks for the various games that were popular at the time, although they all had more serious data. However being not of the criminal persuasion I just looked, shaked my head and reformatted the hard drives and resold them as that is what I had purchased them to do. These were IBM 8088 and a few 286 computers with 10 & 20 MB hard drives. If I was to acquire something like that nowadays I would never see daylight again. Of course today they destroy them rather than selling them. Probably will having the men in black at my doorstep in the morning after positing this.

[kurtruk]

Sure gives me incentive to look into buying a NEW VW. Anything that sticks it to a bunch of dimwit elitist "Barney Fife" paper pushers can't be all bad! Besides, all the VW Diesels on the road, probably don't emit as much pollution as a herd of farting cows on a single large cattle ranch. I'd like to see one of those officials try to ram a "sensor" up one of THOSE exhausts!

John,
If you lived in California dairy-country like I do, you'd know they're already measuring this and trying to figure out what to do about it!

DUST has already been declared a pollution source. If you have dirt roads on your farm, you must water them down each day so you don't generate dust when you drive on them. Really! This, when we've already run out of water for our crops due to four years of drought.

[plwindish]

Sounds like VW has picked up some NASCAR team tricks. Now caught with their hand in the cookie jar, Corporate Honchos will quickly disavow all contact with the designated fall guys who will bear the brunt of the guilt.

[sweetolbob]

Sounds like VW has picked up some NASCAR team tricks. Now caught with their hand in the cookie jar, Corporate Honchos will quickly disavow all contact with the designated fall guys who will bear the brunt of the guilt.

This one won't go away easily so it'll be interesting to see how high it goes. The problem will be that the decisions were probably made in Germany and that adds a whole new degree of difficulty unless they were doing the same to circumvent European Standards. If so, Let the fun begin.

[8E45E]

DUST has already been declared a pollution source. If you have dirt roads on your farm, you must water them down each day so you don't generate dust when you drive on them. Really! This, when we've already run out of water for our crops due to four years of drought.

In the HORSE & buggy days in heavily populated areas, airborne dust really was a pollutant! When horse droppings dried and mixed with the gravel, wind would stir it up as dust, and was a major cause of typhus and other respiratory diseases. Someone must have forgot to tell them, people don't ride horses to work and back (aside from the Amish) anymore!!

Craig

[jclary]

In the HORSE & buggy days in heavily populated areas, airborne dust really was a pollutant! When horse droppings dried and mixed with the gravel, wind would stir it up as dust, and was a major cause of typhus and other respiratory diseases. Someone must have forgot to tell them, people don't ride horses to work and back (aside from the Amish) anymore!!

Craig

Back when I was competing in equestrian events that covered a 100 miles over a weekend...there was a short lived movement to ban us from using public land for our events. One of the objections was the "Horse Apples" deposited along the trails. My best friend (a Veterinarian), cited an extensive study, regarding horse droppings, when he was called to testify. I don't have the details, nor can I cite the research source. However, the result of the research determined that horse waste is some of the cleanest, innocuous, and harmless waste in the animal world. It was further determined that horse manure was more beneficial than harmful. That particular movement dwindled away. I'm sure there will be more.