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Thread: Silver Hawk Major Modifications

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrilla View Post
    Treblig, I truly admire your patience. The purists keep after you and you show them nothing but kindness. If anything you've proven yourself as more than capable to modify your Hawk as you see fit. I believe anything can be improved on, especially cars that are 50+ years old. I'm especially interested in your Mustang II conversion as I am considering that myself. I can't wait to see more updates of your progress. I still have my hopes up that a modified forum will be created that was discussed a few weeks ago.
    I too would love a "modified forum". I read many posts where other members have asked (begged) for a modified forum...but alas, the moderators haven't responded. But that's OK, I'll document everything I do for everyone to see. I imagine everyone here will get sick ad tired of viewing my posts. I will take as many pics as I can even though I know it slows the process down. I have to wash and clean all the grease off my hands then dry them well pull the camera out and take some good clear picks then turn around and get my hands all dirty again. The Silver Hawk will be a new challenge for me because the front frame is not straight. The center line of the front wheels intersects a point on the frame that is not straight. The frame curves out in the section where the Mustang II cross member mounts. So I'm going to have to make a decision to either weld a straight section to the frame where it curves out OR leave the curve and work around it. It seems easier to weld in a straight section but we'll see. The other problem is that the Mustang II companies want to know the frame width?? I measured the frame width in the area where the king pin center line should be...it's right in the middle of the curved part of the frame...this makes it very hard to tell the Mustang II companies what my frame width is. I need to make the decision soon so that I can order the cross member in time to install it during school summer break. I either have to decide to make a straight section in the curved part of the frame or leave it stock and work around it somehow. Either way, it will be done. I don't mind cutting and welding, it's kinda fun!!
    Thanks for support....I'm going to need all the support I can get!!!!
    treblig

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEEPNHOCK View Post
    I think the boxes you are describing are the rear seat footwells used on the coupes.

    Here's a pic from Classic Enterprises replacement parts catalog.

    If you choose not to use the footwells, they can be welded in and will look like this:
    IMG_0449.jpg
    '53 Commander
    Art Morrison chassis
    LS6 ASA/4L60E

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralt12 View Post
    If you choose not to use the footwells, they can be welded in and will look like this:
    IMG_0449.jpg
    I think the foot wells are SUPER COOL features. The ones on my Silver Hawk must have been sealed because the rear floors are flat (on the inside of the cab). The only reason I knew there were boxes under the floor is because I had to drill through that section for the rear inboard bucket seat bolts. If/when I pull the carpets I'll be able to see the original floors in the rear, then I can verify if the floors have been modified. I can't, for any reason see why they would have sealed them over. Even me, Mr. "I'll modify anything" wouldn't seal them off for no reason!! I think they are cool!!

    treblig

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treblig View Post
    I think the foot wells are SUPER COOL features. The ones on my Silver Hawk must have been sealed because the rear floors are flat (on the inside of the cab). The only reason I knew there were boxes under the floor is because I had to drill through that section for the rear inboard bucket seat bolts. If/when I pull the carpets I'll be able to see the original floors in the rear, then I can verify if the floors have been modified. I can't, for any reason see why they would have sealed them over. Even me, Mr. "I'll modify anything" wouldn't seal them off for no reason!! I think they are cool!!

    treblig
    I think most that have been sealed off were done so to avoid remaking the rusted out foot well or the complications in fitting new carpet. They provide little if any additional comfort for the rear passengers, as most feet are too big for them. Weren't much use for me as a kid, riding in the back seat of my dad's many Hawks.

  5. #85
    President Member ralt12's Avatar
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    I took mine out because the cars runs a lot lower than a normal Stude, and I wanted room for mufflers.
    '53 Commander
    Art Morrison chassis
    LS6 ASA/4L60E

  6. #86
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    The problem is that you are using a $14000 car and turning it into a $7000 car instead of you joining this site one or two years ago and picking up a $2000 -$3000 dollar project vehicle. I recall seeing an ad just last week for a Hawk down in that price range. Some of us have so many projects sitting at our places that we have to give them away to those that are deserving.

    A car like this one for example http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studebaker-P...m=221755036338

    or this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studebaker-G...m=161685532776
    Last edited by studebakerkid; 05-02-2015 at 06:53 AM.
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  7. #87
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    AH ! Hind sight ! 20 20.
    The reality is that he is dealing with the situation he HAS, not with the situation you are conjuring up.
    Time and his daughters desires are things you are not taking into consideration.
    The cars you referenced would need interior, body work and paint. That cost would need to be factored in.
    And would add up quickly.
    The answers are different for us all.
    It would be nice if we could all save all the cars we want. Oh well, maybe next time. We should all keep trying though.
    South Lompoc Studebaker

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by 55 56 PREZ 4D View Post
    AH ! Hind sight ! 20 20.
    The reality is that he is dealing with the situation he HAS, not with the situation you are conjuring up.
    Time and his daughters desires are things you are not taking into consideration.
    The cars you referenced would need interior, body work and paint. That cost would need to be factored in.
    And would add up quickly.
    The answers are different for us all.
    It would be nice if we could all save all the cars we want. Oh well, maybe next time. We should all keep trying though.

    The PREZ must be a genius!!! I wanted to buy a car with no rust (ZERO rust) for one big reason. I live in one of the worst environments for corrosion. 1/4 mile from the ocean with a constant salty sea breeze. I've lived here all my live (barring military time). Every morning all the cars under the car port are covered with a very thin slime of dust, dirt, and salt. You don't even notice it unless you let the car sit there for 3/4 days, then it becomes obvious. Even my Barracuda, it sits inside an enclosed garage and after about a week the slime begins to collect. Body work is one thing I can do but really really don't enjoy and paint shops in my city are notorious for keeping classic cars (that need "no" body work) for 9-10 months. My friends have had some of their classic cars held for over a year before they get them back.
    I could never meet my time line if I had bought a cheaper car that needed body work/trim work. Let's not even go into the cost of body work and paint!!! My goal was to buy a car that was running, I didn't even care it it ran poorly. But it had to have a really nice body/trim work and nice interior. From the looks of the underside of this car it looks like it was a frame off resto. The frame is completely painted (every square inch) top, bottom and sides. The underside is completely undercoated, every square inch. The brake lines are all new, front to back, even new clips!! The interior is all new and really beautiful, it needs nothing!! The only issues I see with this car is engine/trans/steering gear box. They all leak profusely. The engine starts up and runs smooth and the transmission shifts perfectly. I'll sell these parts and get some of my money back. Luckily, those items are to be replaced so I think I got a great deal!! I've restored cars before and found that the smartest way is to get a rust free complete car so you don't spend a fortune in time and money buying all the missing parts and doing body work and paint. To me, that's where all the money goes. All the mechanics and modifications I can do myself, so that part is free as far as I'm concerned. Also, neither the cars shown on ebay had fins!! Gotta have the fins.

    One more thing, if I had been able to find a car (FAT CHANCE) with a perfect body and interior and NO ENGINE/TRANS....I would have been looking for a long time. If I had bought a similar car with a non-running engine, I would have paid even more to ship. Besides the shippers avoid cars that aren't running because they are a hassle. So I made my choice based on experience. The previous owner told me the engine/trans had some leaks and that it was hard to steer unless the car was moving/rolling. So the guy was honest. I haggled him down from 16K and I am very, very happy with the car I received. I can drive it around as I modify it and in the end it will have a modern drive train and run for another million miles. Every one that has seen the car thinks that it's beautiful. People are taking cell phone pics of the car (as they drive past me). I will never buy a fixer upper again, been there, done that.

    Thanks PREZ!!

    Treblig

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by studebakerkid View Post
    The problem is that you are using a $14000 car and turning it into a $7000 car instead of you joining this site one or two years ago and picking up a $2000 -$3000 dollar project vehicle. I recall seeing an ad just last week for a Hawk down in that price range. Some of us have so many projects sitting at our places that we have to give them away to those that are deserving.

    A car like this one for example http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studebaker-P...m=221755036338

    or this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Studebaker-G...m=161685532776
    These cars need extensive restoration (in other words MONEY and TIME!!). That's why they are so cheap. Around here, where I live I'm pretty sure I can get 20K for the Silver Hawk after it's complete. My son has had many, many offer over 20K for his car. It has a 350 eng/700R4 trans/12 bolt rear/Saturn Vue side mirrors/Shoulder harness bucket seats/the third rear seat out of a Suburban (with built in seat belts)/500 watt stereo system/..and on and on and on. When you do them right they are worth a lot more than if you leave them stock!! Now if you have a perfect (mecun auction car) Silver Hawk with a factory turbo, then it would be dumb to replace the drive train!!

    treblig

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralt12 View Post
    I took mine out because the cars runs a lot lower than a normal Stude, and I wanted room for mufflers.
    Now that makes sense!! Did anyone accuse you of butchering your car to make it better??

    treblig

  11. #91
    President Member junior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treblig View Post
    Now that makes sense!! Did anyone accuse you of butchering your car to make it better??

    treblig
    pay no never-mind to the negativity... seems to me you`re spending tons of time on this thread justifying why you're building your ride (oops, daughter`s) the way you are...kinda like beating your head against a wall...just going to end up with a headache. I`ve been following this thread with a lot of interest because you`re new to the forum and have injected some much needed (IMO) enthusiasm and energy. I admire that you are a mover and shaker in the fact that you are progressing with this build at a good rate, much quicker than the rest of us.... Keep walking the walk! A number of us forum members have modified cars and are more than willing to share what`s worked for us. Keep sharing your progress! cheers, junior

    1954 C5 Hamilton car.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by junior View Post
    pay no never-mind to the negativity... seems to me you`re spending tons of time on this thread justifying why you're building your ride (oops, daughter`s) the way you are...kinda like beating your head against a wall...just going to end up with a headache. I`ve been following this thread with a lot of interest because you`re new to the forum and have injected some much needed (IMO) enthusiasm and energy. I admire that you are a mover and shaker in the fact that you are progressing with this build at a good rate, much quicker than the rest of us.... Keep walking the walk! A number of us forum members have modified cars and are more than willing to share what`s worked for us. Keep sharing your progress! cheers, junior
    Fully agree with Junior! Treblig, I admire that you are taking the high road with these trolls. I don't think I would be as understanding and patient.
    Paul
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    Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

  13. #93
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    Treblig, years ago I had a 60 Hawk, loved that car. I installed a three spoke wood steering wheel on it from a 66 Torino GT. Nice wheel, don't remember the diameter exactly but it would have been about the same as that t-bird wheel. The hub diameter was nearly the same as the Hawk (covered column ok), splines were the same, shaft size the same. The prongs to cancel the turn signal needed to be adjusted, the horn slip ring was different had to make a part.

    For safety, when you make the intermediate shaft to reconnect the steering from the rack and pinion to the original Hawk column, use a slip shaft so that in the event of a front end collision the column will not be pushed up toward the driver. Seat belts, seat belts, seat belts, with shoulder harness. If those pickup seats have contact switches in them wire them into the start/run circuit so that she can't take off without buckling up. (Sorry, we just lost a grandson a few months ago to a stupid accident where he would have been saved with a seat belt on.)

    The batwing is that big cross member that goes under the front cowl and the transmission bolts to.

    Good luck with your project man! Safety first.
    Dave.

  14. #94
    President Member ralt12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treblig View Post
    Now that makes sense!! Did anyone accuse you of butchering your car to make it better??

    treblig
    I've had a number of comments, both positive and negative. Generally the good outweigh the bad. The fact of the matter is, though, it's my car -- my project -- and when its done I think all would be appreciative.
    Having said that, the only person I answer to is me.
    '53 Commander
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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtracy View Post
    Treblig, years ago I had a 60 Hawk, loved that car. I installed a three spoke wood steering wheel on it from a 66 Torino GT. Nice wheel, don't remember the diameter exactly but it would have been about the same as that t-bird wheel. The hub diameter was nearly the same as the Hawk (covered column ok), splines were the same, shaft size the same. The prongs to cancel the turn signal needed to be adjusted, the horn slip ring was different had to make a part.

    For safety, when you make the intermediate shaft to reconnect the steering from the rack and pinion to the original Hawk column, use a slip shaft so that in the event of a front end collision the column will not be pushed up toward the driver. Seat belts, seat belts, seat belts, with shoulder harness. If those pickup seats have contact switches in them wire them into the start/run circuit so that she can't take off without buckling up. (Sorry, we just lost a grandson a few months ago to a stupid accident where he would have been saved with a seat belt on.)

    The batwing is that big cross member that goes under the front cowl and the transmission bolts to.

    Good luck with your project man! Safety first.
    Dave.

    That's very interesting Dave!!! I've been waiting patiently for someone to give me information on what wheels will work in place of my original. There are companies who make the smaller 15" wheel (in the original shape with smaller horn ring as well) but I've only found them to fit T-birds and Chevys (in the smaller version). I don't mind spending $350 on a nice smaller wheel since I'm saving so much by doing most of the mechanical and manufacturing work myself. 66 Torino GT...amazing. I don't mind doing any minor mods or adjustments. The pics I've seen of the 56/57 T-Bird wheel (the smaller version) makes me think that it will fit with minor mods. I'll start cruising ebay for a Torino wheel and check them out!!!

    And yes, I usually use a collapsible shaft section when it's possible!! Thanks for reminding me!! I'm sorry for your loss, that type of thing is terrible (I know). No interconnecting switches on the GM seats.. They automatically lock up on impact and if you pull on them quickly (like in an accident). No buzzer or interconnect with ignition.

    Thanks for the bat wing info. I was under the car the other day and that cross member kinda looked like a bat's wing but I wasn't sure.
    I managed to crawl under the car today and took these pics:

    DSC04522.JPGDSC04523.JPG

    They didn't come out as clear as they should have because I was upside down trying to hold the camera and the light with one hand while I held the triangle in the other. Some had asked about the box and that they couldn't see it in the pics posted earlier. Here you can see the seat belt bolt coming out at an angle....actually the bolt is coming straight down through an angled piece of floor (the foot well). The angular block I made will allow the nut to tighten against a flat (horizontal) surface. The strength of a bolt can be compromised by the forcing the nut or the head up against a non flat (or in this case horizontal surface). In other words, the darn thing needs be to square to the hole!! And no, I'm not talking about sex!!!!
    Now I'll just weld my plates to these angle boxes, drill a hole through them and install....more to come on some grade 8 captured nuts. These will be attached to the plates so one person can remove the seat bolts from above without having to hold the nut from below!!
    Thanks!!!
    treblig

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    Seat bolt captured nuts!!

    Ok, the problem I usually run into on all my hot rods it that you need a reinforced floor where the seat bolts tighten. The other issue is that you should use grade 8 bolts and grade 8 nuts. Since you're not supposed to weld on grade 8 nuts (the excessive heat can hurt their hardness) I came up with an idea. I need to attach the nuts to the plates under the car so that I don't have to have help when I remove and install the seats to install the new brake pedal, install the shifter cable and also when I remove/re-install the seats to take them to the upholstery guy. Anyway, I thought about it for a while and came up with a nice solution. I found some box iron in my garage today and it happened to be 3/4" ID, this is the exact size of the nut (OD). So I figured..... I cut a short section of the box iron, and castellate it. Being is how the nut is not square (it's a hexagon) on the outside I ground two opposing points down to 3/4" this way the nut will slide into the box iron. Then all I have to do is drill a 1/2" hole in the plate center the piece of box iron on the hole and weld it on. Once it cools I can drop the nut into the box and peen the castellated ears down over the nut. No heat applied to the grade 8 nut and it's captured permanently. There's no way the nut can turn inside the box and it will still float around just enough to make it easy to start the bolts. I also plan to grind a mild taper (chamfer) on the ends of the bolts so they find their way easier into the threads of the nut. Grinding on the grade 8 nuts and bolts doesn't harm them at all as long as you cool them in water when they get hot enough to feel it in your fingers as you grind. If you clamp a nut or a bolt in a vice and hit it with a grinder you'll never know if it's getting too hot!! Your fingers will tell PDQ!!

    DSC04524.JPGDSC04525.JPGDSC04526.JPGDSC04527.JPG

    Now all I'll have to do is locate the plate w/nut, install the bolt from the topside and drill and pop rivet the plate in place where it will stay. Undercoat and I'm done. More pics as I weld/peen them together.
    I good way to spend a Saturday!!!!

    PS - Wish I had thought of this years ago................

    Treblig
    Last edited by Treblig; 05-02-2015 at 10:00 PM.

  17. #97
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    I have been reading your thread with interest, nice work.
    Ignore the trolls, they lack creativity and have a myopic view of anything not available in the shop manual.
    As some of the more reasoned posters to this thread have stated, your car your build.... move forward.
    http://www.julianos.com/ hot rods has seat belt plates for under the floor designed not to tear the floor in the event of use.
    Bill Foy
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    1953 Starlight Coupe

  18. #98
    Golden Hawk Member DEEPNHOCK's Avatar
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    Here's a copy of that page in Juliano's catalog...

    Julianos Seat Belt Mount Page.jpg



    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Billy View Post
    I have been reading your thread with interest, nice work.
    Ignore the trolls, they lack creativity and have a myopic view of anything not available in the shop manual.
    As some of the more reasoned posters to this thread have stated, your car your build.... move forward.
    http://www.julianos.com/ hot rods has seat belt plates for under the floor designed not to tear the floor in the event of use.
    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

    Jeff




    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

  19. #99
    Speedster Member Quentin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treblig View Post
    That's very interesting Dave!!! I've been waiting patiently for someone to give me information on what wheels will work in place of my original. There are companies who make the smaller 15" wheel (in the original shape with smaller horn
    treblig
    Hi Treblig, put this into the E-bay search....
    "57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 STUDEBAKER NEW STEERING WHEEL + HORN BUTTON"
    and an (I think) attractive wheel to suit appears for $150, in either 13 1/2" or 14 3/4".
    Seller is "morestufftoo" from Rhode Island.
    There are several others on ebay to suit Jeep or T'Bird that appear to use the same Grant boss kit so as to fit Studebaker as well.
    Happy hunting. Quentin

  20. #100
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    Revelation!!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DEEPNHOCK View Post
    Here's a copy of that page in Juliano's catalog...

    Julianos Seat Belt Mount Page.jpg

    Thanks guys!! Those belt bolt plates would work great for the underside if the car. The bolts they sell at Julianos will only work on some of the holes. Some of the bolts need to be 4" long because of the foot well and some of the bolts have to be either allen bolts or those special Torx bolts. The way the seats are designed you can only use a bolt with a very small diameter head or it won't go down into the pocket under the Chevy seat (that's why the factory uses the Torx bolts). I'll post some pics later today so you can see what I'm talking about. So the plates sold by Julianos are great and I appreciate the info. I've already manufactured the ones I need (yesterday) so I may as well finish what I started. Beside my plates are little larger than the ones in the catalog so they should offer a little more support. Wait a minute...................I just got hit by a lightening bolt!!!.........Now that I've been writing about this........I noticed that the factory Chevy seats use a metric bolt a little larger than 1/2". The Juliano bolt is only 7/16" (smaller than 1/2"). I think the factory uses a larger bolt on the shoulder harness seats because of the way the seats are designed to stop you from going forward which gives the the seat GREAT leverage against the rear bolts. Leverage that would not normally be experienced using regular lap belts or three point belts. The tallness of the seat where the top of the belt retracts into causes the body to exert tremendous force (leverage) against the top of the seat.
    My point is....if the factory engineers figured that the seats required a bolt a little larger than 1/2" then who am I to argue?? You folks have given me a revelation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Up until today I used 1/2" or larger bolts on shoulder harness seat belts because I was simply imitating what the factory did (error on the side of safety). But now I'm realizing that A LARGER BOLT is not only needed, it's absolutely necessary for shoulder harness seats. Think about the added leverage the 39" tall seat exerts on the rear bolts with a 250 person sitting in the seat and having an accident going 45 MPH!!! No wonder they use such a large bolt!!!!
    Thanks guys, I don't know if it was the good nights sleep or the fact that Julianos sells 7/16" bolts, but something made a light go off in my head!!! Since I'm building this car for my daughter she's getting 1/2" grade 8 bolts.
    On a side note, one of my good friends has a 40 Chevy I helped him build. I think he used the Juliano bolts and plates. He also used the Chevy shoulder harness seats. I plan to tell him about my revelation next time I see him. It's amazing what a good night's rest can do and you guys helped!!!!!!!!!!!

    Thanks again, and thanks a lot!!!

    Treblig

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
    Hi Treblig, put this into the E-bay search....
    "57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 STUDEBAKER NEW STEERING WHEEL + HORN BUTTON"
    and an (I think) attractive wheel to suit appears for $150, in either 13 1/2" or 14 3/4".
    Seller is "morestufftoo" from Rhode Island.
    There are several others on ebay to suit Jeep or T'Bird that appear to use the same Grant boss kit so as to fit Studebaker as well.
    Happy hunting. Quentin

    I'll have my daughter check them out. I had mentioned these types (aftermarket) of wheels before and she wasn't too keen on a wheel that didn't look "ol' timey". But it won't hurt to let her look at the ones you point out on ebay on the chance that she might like one of them!! You never know???

    thanks,
    Treblig

  22. #102
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    Look at an Avanti wheel, it should be a guaranteed fit. Someone should be able to post a picture of thier steering wheel. As I remember, they were 3 spoke, kind of old timey, and very attractive. Dave.

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtracy View Post
    Look at an Avanti wheel, it should be a guaranteed fit. Someone should be able to post a picture of thier steering wheel. As I remember, they were 3 spoke, kind of old timey, and very attractive. Dave.
    dtracy, that would be great!! Hopefully someone will post a good pic of their wheel(s). The diameter of the wheel is also very important, needs to be 15" or less.
    I have already found that Studebaker changed the steering shaft and spline from 57 on up. So anything before 57 won't work!!

    thanks,
    Treblig

  24. #104
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    Well the first one came off the production line: Treblig
    Attached Images Attached Images

  25. #105
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    If you are tacking the plate to the underside of the floor, remember to radius the top edge of the plate to prevent ripping through the floor in the event of an excessive load being applied during a collision. If you're running a bead around the whole perimeter of the plate this probably does not apply. Cheers, junior

    1954 C5 Hamilton car.

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by junior View Post
    If you are tacking the plate to the underside of the floor, remember to radius the top edge of the plate to prevent ripping through the floor in the event of an excessive load being applied during a collision. If you're running a bead around the whole perimeter of the plate this probably does not apply. Cheers, junior

    Excellent suggestion!! Will do. I always (as a machinist) smooth/debur all sharp edges but a nice radius on the edges of the plates (where they contact the floor) would go a long way in making it better....and it doesn't cost a dime!!!
    Here are some pics of the Chevy seat rails. As you can see the outboard bolts go into a pocket. The pocket has a hole which prevents you from using a bolt with a large head (like a 1/2" bolt hex head). Well...you can get a large bolt in there but there's no room for the socket!! I used these large bolts and had my friend jam the head with a screwdriver while I tightened the nut from the bottom. So you either go with a large allen bolt or maybe one of the stainless steel high grade small head bolts they sell at Summit. I'm sure you've seen them, a 3/8" thread bolt will have a 3/8 hex head. But I don't know if they make them in 1/2" thread. I would only need 4 for the outboard bolts. The inboard bolts are wide open as you can see (last pic).

    DSC04535.JPGDSC04536.JPGDSC04537.JPGDSC04538.JPGDSC04539.JPG


    One more thing, I realize that the seats are a little large/tall. The more I look at them the more I need to do something about it. I had added a 1 X 1 box iron piece under the outboard rail to level the seats. But now that they are in the car it is obvious that need to sit lower. I had planned on having the upholstery guy de-bulk them and shave an inch or two off the top of the head rest. But today I noticed that the inboard rails (see last pic) have a bracket with a dogleg in it. This dogleg raises the seat an inch. If I remove the dogleg and weld in a flat bracket (flush with the bottom of the rail) THEN remove the 1 X 1 box iron from the outboard rail, I will effectively lower the seats 1 inch. With that and another inch or two off the top of the head rest it would be 3 inches lower/shorter and much more aesthetically pleasing. If I mount the seat directly to the floor instead of on top of the carpet and jute I can gain another 3/4". Then I'm sure they would look much better.

    Comments?????


    Treblig
    Last edited by Treblig; 05-03-2015 at 03:25 PM.

  27. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treblig View Post
    Well the first one came off the production line: Treblig


    I almost forgot, before you weld the castellated boxes onto the plates be sure an put a good used nut in the box. You'll have to grind two opposing points off the nut first). Do not use a grade 8 nut or bolt or the excessive heat from the weld might take some of the tensile strength out of the grade 8 fasteners . Anyway, you use the "junk" nut and bolt to suck the nut up against the plate so it sits flat. Then you slide the castellated box over the nut and weld the box onto the plate. This way, no matter what happens the nut will be flush against the plate when you install it on the car ensuring the full strength of the system.

    Treblig

  28. #108
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    A little paint and they're ready to install,


    DSC04531.JPGDSC04532.JPGDSC04533.JPGDSC04534.JPG

    You can see the chamfer on the backside so that the bolt (coming in from the top) will easily find it's way you the nut.

    Treblig

  29. #109
    Speedster Member garrilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treblig View Post
    Excellent suggestion!! Will do. I always (as a machinist) smooth/debur all sharp edges but a nice radius on the edges of the plates (where they contact the floor) would go a long way in making it better....and it doesn't cost a dime!!!
    Here are some pics of the Chevy seat rails. As you can see the outboard bolts go into a pocket. The pocket has a hole which prevents you from using a bolt with a large head (like a 1/2" bolt hex head). Well...you can get a large bolt in there but there's no room for the socket!! I used these large bolts and had my friend jam the head with a screwdriver while I tightened the nut from the bottom. So you either go with a large allen bolt or maybe one of the stainless steel high grade small head bolts they sell at Summit. I'm sure you've seen them, a 3/8" thread bolt will have a 3/8 hex head. But I don't know if they make them in 1/2" thread. I would only need 4 for the outboard bolts. The inboard bolts are wide open as you can see (last pic).

    DSC04535.JPGDSC04536.JPGDSC04537.JPGDSC04538.JPGDSC04539.JPG


    One more thing, I realize that the seats are a little large/tall. The more I look at them the more I need to do something about it. I had added a 1 X 1 box iron piece under the outboard rail to level the seats. But now that they are in the car it is obvious that need to sit lower. I had planned on having the upholstery guy de-bulk them and shave an inch or two off the top of the head rest. But today I noticed that the inboard rails (see last pic) have a bracket with a dogleg in it. This dogleg raises the seat an inch. If I remove the dogleg and weld in a flat bracket (flush with the bottom of the rail) THEN remove the 1 X 1 box iron from the outboard rail, I will effectively lower the seats 1 inch. With that and another inch or two off the top of the head rest it would be 3 inches lower/shorter and much more aesthetically pleasing. If I mount the seat directly to the floor instead of on top of the carpet and jute I can gain another 3/4". Then I'm sure they would look much better.

    Comments?????


    Treblig
    I too noticed the seat were somewhat bulky, if you don't have too much in them Honda Element seats have the shoulder harness in them and are compact and comfortable.
    Gary

  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrilla View Post
    I too noticed the seat were somewhat bulky, if you don't have too much in them Honda Element seats have the shoulder harness in them and are compact and comfortable.

    I got the seats for free. I wouldn't mind spending some money on some less bulky (shorter) seats. I have no idea how tall the Element seats are but I can sure find out. The big reason I'm using the Chevy seats it that they tilt forward and don't have any air bags or other electronic gizmos that make the installation more complex. I went to the salvage yard last Monday and spend a few hours out there checking out all the cars with shoulder harness seat belts. Many Cadillacs came with them and so did a 99 Park Avenue I saw. One of the big challenges is finding a car that is a two door (the Park Avenue was a 4dr) so that the seats will tilt forward so my daughter can let her friends ride in the back seat. The Cadillac seats had a huge 16 pin plug connected to the seat. I got 04 Blazer seats (for a bargain price) for my son's '46 Chevy not realizing the Blazer was a 4 door. I later stripped the passenger's seat down and swaped out the frame parts from a Chevy (extended cab truck). Those seats tilt forward now as do the ones I have in the Silver Hawk. I believe the Honda Element is a van with sliding side rear doors. If that's the case the front seats probably don't tilt forward. But I'll still go out to the salvage yard and check tomorrow. That's one thing everyone needs to keep in mind when getting shoulder harness seats for their 2 Dr car...make sure the seats tilt forward before you spend your money!!!

    thanks for the suggestion,

    Treblig

  31. #111
    Speedster Member garrilla's Avatar
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    Treblig, Element seats up to and including 2007 don't have side airbags and also slide and tilt forward for access to the back seat. They appear to be smaller than the seats you have and have after-market leather covers available for them.
    Gary

  32. #112
    Golden Hawk Member Dick Steinkamp's Avatar
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    Like these...

    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp View Post
    Like these...



    Those look nice and they look shorter than what I currently have (also less bulky). I'm headed to the salvage yard today to see them first hand. I had budgeted $2400 for the interior so condition isn't a big deal.

    Treblig

  34. #114
    President Member r1lark's Avatar
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    Those are nice looking seats. I hope those headrests move back at the top though. My wife's Ford Edge has headrests like that that sort of point to the front, and I hate them. Keep thinking the factory put the headrests in backwards but can't figure out how to turn them around .
    Paul
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  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1lark View Post
    Those are nice looking seats. I hope those headrests move back at the top though. My wife's Ford Edge has headrests like that that sort of point to the front, and I hate them. Keep thinking the factory put the headrests in backwards but can't figure out how to turn them around .
    I agree 100 percent!! Mine are like that on my Yaris, it's annoying as hell to have that thing continuously push my head forward!! I pulled it off and turned around backwards...so much for engineering.

    treblig

  36. #116
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    Can you believe it??? I called every salvage yard in town, there isn't ONE single Element in any of them. I even told them that it didn't matter what year the car was. NO I don't live at the end of the world but if you walk to the highest point in the city and look off into the distance I think you can actually see the end of the world.

    All kidding aside. I was hoping I could find a wrecked Element so I could measure the width and height of the seat. Do any members happen to own one or have a neighbor who owns one?? My next hope is a dealership, but it's going to look kind of funny when tell the dealer I'm interested in an Element then pull out my measuring tape and measure the seats????
    They'll think that I'm a PSYCO!!!!

    Treblig

  37. #117
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    Ok, I was out a bunch of salvage yards today and ran across these seats. Not these exact ones, just some that are just like these. They look a lot sleeker and shorter as well.$_57[1].jpg

    Plan to go out tomorrow and remove them from the car. They're only asking $75 for the pair. I'll sell the GM seats for an easy $150 and get all my money back and then some.

    treblig

  38. #118
    President Member ralt12's Avatar
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    Try late -80's Mercedes seats for the 2-door large car versions as well. Comfy.
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  39. #119
    Speedster Member garrilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treblig View Post
    Can you believe it??? I called every salvage yard in town, there isn't ONE single Element in any of them. I even told them that it didn't matter what year the car was. NO I don't live at the end of the world but if you walk to the highest point in the city and look off into the distance I think you can actually see the end of the world.

    All kidding aside. I was hoping I could find a wrecked Element so I could measure the width and height of the seat. Do any members happen to own one or have a neighbor who owns one?? My next hope is a dealership, but it's going to look kind of funny when tell the dealer I'm interested in an Element then pull out my measuring tape and measure the seats????
    They'll think that I'm a PSYCO!!!!

    Treblig
    Treblig I own an Element and got some measurements for you. The width is 20.5" at the widest point, the seat front is 12" off of the floor, the back is aprox. 32" (the rear floor is a couple of inches higher than the front) + about 4" more for the headrest and the seats are 20" deep with the overall depth of 27". Although the headrests are a little forward my wife and I don't find them uncomfortable. Hope this helps you out.
    Gary

  40. #120
    Speedster Member garrilla's Avatar
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    Treblig, Just looked on ebay and found some seats with free shipping. Just look carefully as the early years don't have the shoulder belts.
    Gary

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