Engine: What engine do I have?

[John Thomas]

Purchased my first Studebaker in July, a 1963 Avanti R1 with S/N R2060. I have done a lot of reading and research on line, including this forum and the AOAI tech forum. I began to get suspicious when I noted that the Avanti engine color is black, whereas the engine in my car was orange. I have purchased a build sheet from the Studebaker Museum but it hasn't arrived yet. I believe the chassis and body number will match but the engine has no serial number. It does have a partial keystone stamp at the same site with a partial number inside. Further, the heads are blue! The keystone stamp and the blue heads can be seen in the photos I have attached. So, this is what I think from my reading. The engine (short block) is a replacement or "crate" engine. Based on the casting number, of which there is a photo, it would be a heavy duty (truck!?) block with a variety of changes that distinguish it from an R1 engine. There is however no "cloverleaf" stamp. The only reference I can find for a blue engine color is a 1955 289 V8. So, is this some sort of cobbled-together hybrid? I have extensive service documentation from previous owners but there are gaps, some years long, and no mention of an engine swap. The previous owner had the car stored for almost 20 years and did not work on it at all. Any insight would be appreciated.

John Thomas

[PackardV8]

Since you've got a replacement engine, the build sheet won't help much.

Unfortunately, there's no way of knowing what you've got in there from the cloverleaf. I've seen two Avanti owners get taken with 259" swaps. I even got taken buying a 289" core engine which had 289" pistons on a 259" crankshaft.

On the other hand, one buyer a while back hit the jackpot and got an R3 he didn't pay for in his Avanti.

Pull all the spark plugs, look down the hole and check for dished or flat top pistons. You could also measure the stroke with a length of coat hanger down the spark plug hole. Then run a compression test. A regular cam flat top 259" or a dished 289" should pump 130#-150#. A flat top 289" with R1 cam should be 185#. A flat top R1 with a standard cam will pump 210#-220# and ping like a poltergeist.

jack vines

[StudeRich]

This is really not as big a mystery as you think.

Red/Orange Engine = painted by the Garage that installed the replacement engine. The original Black block likely went to scrap.

Blue Heads = Painted by the Machine Shop that did the Valve Grind.
In the day, these Shops used the paint they had on the shelf for Fords & Chevrolets.
These are probably the original 1557570 Heads, not '55 Comm. President.

No need to make anything "Original" on a $2000.00 Studebaker in 1975 era!

Keystone stamp with inspector's Number in the center = Inspection Stamp

1554641 casting = a correct for late '62-'64 Stude. full flow engine block casting.

This is NOT a H.D. Truck engine without the cloverleaf, it is probably a Std. 259 or 289 Replacement Block & Pistons that MAY have all of the correct "R" Series Engine Parts added, and if so is IDENTICAL to the original R1 "R" Engine except the Serial Number.

It would be very unusual however to trash a perfect Set of Matched to the Cylinders; Std. 259 or Std. 289 Dished Pistons, Rings and Wrist Pins to install Avanti Flat Top Pistons.

If the replacement Block was a 289, it most likely had no Crankshaft, so if the original 289 was turn-able it could have been saved and reused. Otherwise a replacement 259 or 289 Crank would have to be obtained.

Since this probably happened many years ago, all we have to go on, is most probable case and a couple of alternatives, mostly common practice.

Just so you know, for you and others FYI, IF it were a H.D. Engine, all of the "Truck Upgrades" would be the same as an Avanti Block and Pistons except the Pistons and the bolted on Avanti/Jet Thrust Engine noted Part Number Tag.

If it were an Avanti "Short Block" it would have had the R1/R2 Camshaft & Pistons.

[John Thomas]

Thanks for the input so far. I'll take out a couple of spark plugs and try to figure out which pistons are being used.

John Thomas

[John Thomas]

OK, I removed three spark plugs and as near as I can tell the piston tops are dished. It's not much of a hole to look thru or get a light into. Also the casting number on the heads are 1557570. The plugs were terrible! The gaps were .040 or greater. The wife of the previous owner spent $9K to get the car running again and for whatever reason that did not include a simple tune-up. So I have plugs, wires and points from the early 90's. I have driven the car a few times but it will certainly run better when I get that little problem corrected!

John Thomas

[PackardV8]

Also the casting number on the heads are 1557570.

That would be correct for the original R1 heads. If you have dished pistons, it was probably a replacement stock 225hp short block. Do a compression test and let us know what you find.

jack vines

[John Thomas]

I checked the compression on three cylinders. Got 175#, 185# and 190#. FYI, the mileage is 118K.

John Thomas

[PackardV8]

With that compression, it's likely your engine has R1 internals.

jack vines

[John Thomas]

Thanks all for your help with the engine ID. At some point I would like to pull the engine and paint it the "correct" black. Would that be appropriate or would it be deceptive?

John

[PackardV8]

Not as far as I'm concerned. If I replaced the block in my R1, I'd paint it black.

BTW, all Studebaker V8 blocks came from the same foundry and down the same machining line. The serial numbers are mostly so the assembly guys would put the correct parts inside, for the DMV and for the dealership service guys to order the right parts and do the correct build/adjustments/tuneup. The R1 or R2 block is exactly the same as any full-flow 259" 2bbl.

jack vines

Thanks all for your help with the engine ID. At some point I would like to pull the engine and paint it the "correct" black. Would that be appropriate or would it be deceptive?

John