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Studebaker Avanti TKO 5 speed install - how to

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  • #16
    Alan,
    I have a 52 2R10 that someone transplanted a 224 Routestar V8 with T-85 OD into. I believe the engine is out of an early 56 truck.
    I also have a 62 Champ V8 with the T85 OD and one out of a 64 Champ V8.

    On 8E V8 trucks, the only 3 spd was an T89C(T-87E for right hand control)with or without OD. The T-89C was an improved version of the T-85.

    The three speed for 8E six cylinder trucks was the T-90B w/ or W/o OD.
    Maybe T-86's were used in earlier Commander six and V8's trucks.

    But Toms Avanti is an 1963 and thats the era I was focusing on.


    3E38
    4E2
    4E28
    5E13
    7E7
    8E7
    8E12
    8E28

    59 Lark
    etc

    Comment


    • #17
      quote:Originally posted by Transtar60

      Alan,
      I have a 52 2R10 that someone transplanted a 224 Routestar V8 with T-85 OD into. I believe the engine is out of an early 56 truck.
      I also have a 62 Champ V8 with the T85 OD and one out of a 64 Champ V8.

      On 8E V8 trucks, the only 3 spd was an T89C(T-87E for right hand control)with or without OD. The T-89C was an improved version of the T-85.

      The three speed for 8E six cylinder trucks was the T-90B w/ or W/o OD.
      Maybe T-86's were used in earlier Commander six and V8's trucks.

      But Toms Avanti is an 1963 and thats the era I was focusing on.


      3E38
      4E2
      4E28
      5E13
      7E7
      8E7
      8E12
      8E28

      59 Lark
      etc
      So maybe the T-85 in our truck IS the original transmission?

      Comment


      • #18
        Could be Allen but my specifications book only covers 8E trucks.
        I think there were Truck spec books for earlier years but not sure.
        Unfortunately the parts books only name certain trannies like the 4 and 5 spds.


        3E38
        4E2
        4E28
        5E13
        7E7
        8E7
        8E12
        8E28

        59 Lark
        etc

        Comment


        • #19
          Switching gears from "Everything you wanted to know about a T86, T85,
          & T89, but were too afraid to ask" .. BACK to the TKO "how to" thread,
          here is the modified bearing retainer, turned down to 4.677.



          Also, here is a picture of the front seal, rear seal, and the correct
          sealant used on the TKO transmissions.
          Seal Napa 11123
          Seal Napa 14978
          Sealant Napa 765-1189 (PX# 51813)



          Tom
          '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
          Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
          http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
          I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

          Comment


          • #20
            Sorry Tom , but threads just seem to wander off course.


            3E38
            4E2
            4E28
            5E13
            7E7
            8E7
            8E12
            8E28

            59 Lark
            etc

            Comment


            • #21
              quote:Originally posted by Transtar60

              Sorry Tom , but threads just seem to wander off course.


              3E38
              4E2
              4E28
              5E13
              7E7
              8E7
              8E12
              8E28

              59 Lark
              etc
              How 'bout them Rockies?

              LOL

              Sorry from me too!!---Please continue!!!

              Comment


              • #22
                A quick update, held off on putting the TKO back together. Dan sent
                me an email on Friday to let me know he has been working on a way to
                allow me to leave the bellhousing on, and relatively new clutch assy
                untouched. I havent been looking forward to taking all of this apart
                since it was done only a couple thousand miles ago. Since I got the
                10 spline TKO, I dont need to change the clutch for a 26 spline. This
                will be on its way early next week, and will get interference fitted
                to my input shaft, in order to use the stock pilot bushing that is in
                the crank already. Since my work heat treats parts, I will have them
                do the work. Tooling steel 01 gets heated to 750-800 degrees, and it
                is quenched in oil after being positioned on the input shaft, which is
                then as hard as the input shaft itself. This is welcome news since I
                can put off disassembling everything until I rebuild the engine. At
                that time I will use the original pilot bushing included in the kit if
                there is any issues that develop from this alternative solution. I will
                simply remove the input shaft from the TKO, and bring it to my work.

                I hope to get the T86 out this weekend or early next week. Halloween
                is coming up, and the wife is pulling down boxes from the attic, the
                Avanti cant get put up on blocks in the garage until everything's out.

                Tom
                '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                Comment


                • #23
                  Short update, I received the input shaft extention in the mail this
                  weekend, and removed the input shaft. I followed the instruction in
                  the manual, but 17 little roller bearings STILL fell out inside the
                  transmission when I CAREFULLY pulled the input shaft out. For those
                  who end up with the same problem, I used a little telescoping magnet
                  to retrieve them through the drain plug hole at the case bottom. At
                  inspection of the front bearing, the race looks worn, and the rollers
                  also, so I will source a new bearing for it.



                  The extention tip allows me to use the oilite bushing thats already
                  in the back of the crank :





                  The trick is, Dan put an interference fit to hold it tight to the tip
                  of the input shaft. The process of heat treating the 01 Tool steel
                  is to heat to 1200 degrees F and cool in oil. While the piece is at
                  1200 degrees, it will easily slide onto the input shaft. My work is
                  versed in how to do this process, so I will hand it off to Guy again
                  and let the experts do their thing!

                  Tom
                  '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                  Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                  http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                  I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Couple of tidbits, and a question...

                    When you put those needle bearings back in, hold them in place with a dab of grease in the end of the shaft.

                    And the interference fit on your adapter...
                    When you install it, set the cap on the top of a light bulb and set the shaft in the freezer.
                    Put a drop of Loc-Tite (609 Bearing Mount) on the shaft (not the adapter cup) when you put the adapter on.
                    (You don't want to push any of the shaft treatment into the cap and possible get into a hydraulic lock situation).
                    If it it on the shaft, the adapter will squeegee it off toward the outside of the saaembly)

                    The industrial bearing guys have electric bearing heaters to do this kind of work all the time (BTDT).

                    And your heat treatment. Does your guy anneal the adapter after hardening it? Just curious.
                    Hope the info helps.
                    Jeff[8D]



                    quote:Originally posted by sbca96

                    Short update, I received the input shaft extention in the mail this
                    weekend, and removed the input shaft. I followed the instruction in
                    the manual, but 17 little roller bearings STILL fell out inside the
                    transmission when I CAREFULLY pulled the input shaft out. For those
                    who end up with the same problem, I used a little telescoping magnet
                    to retrieve them through the drain plug hole at the case bottom. At
                    inspection of the front bearing, the race looks worn, and the rollers
                    also.

                    The trick is, Dan put an interference fit to hold it tight to the tip
                    of the input shaft. The process of heat treating the 01 Tool steel
                    is to heat to 1200 degrees F and cool in oil. While the piece is at
                    1200 degrees, it will easily slide onto the input shaft. My work is
                    versed in how to do this process, so I will hand it off to Guy again
                    and let the experts do their thing!

                    Tom



                    Deep-N-Hock Acres
                    Brooklet, Georgia
                    DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
                    '37 Coupe Express
                    '37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
                    '61 Hawk (project: Ist Gen Owner - project)
                    Mysterious Project Z
                    http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

                    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                    Jeff


                    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I really don't think the sleeve needs to be heat treated since its running in a bronze bushing. The heat treat strength is already in the shaft. If you think about it, a crank shaft journal is soft cast iron running in babbit. The important thing is the dissimilar metals and the softer bronze.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Thanks for the input guys, I will let the shop take care of the heat
                        treating/install - they know best what they are doing. Dan made it
                        with .001 interference, and put a hole in the tip to keep it from any
                        hydrolock during the install. He even did a test run to check that
                        it would work. The input shaft is hardened, and the extention will
                        end up around the same Rockwell hardness.

                        Tom
                        '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                        Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                        http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                        I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Tom, Did you check the runout on this install? These transmissions are a little on the touchy side and like to be lined up as close to "zero" as possible. Scott.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Scott, I am not disrupting the factory alignment of the bellhousing,
                            so there shouldnt be any runout issues.

                            I got the sleeve installed on friday, it took two tries, first we did
                            it by the book, used a kilm and heated it to 1400 degrees. This did
                            not go well, as oxidation built a layer of crud on the inside and it
                            refused to slide on. Guy waited for it to cool down and then Bobby
                            cleaned it back up, inside and out. Next we did it like Dan suggested
                            by heating it red hot, dropping it onto the shaft and dunking it into
                            oil. This worked perfect :







                            This weekend I decided it was time the T-86 came out. I put the car
                            up on rims for good ground clearance, drained out the oil, removed the
                            driveshaft, undid the shifter (though you can not remove it), took out
                            the speedo cable, and loosen all the bolts.







                            Here is the last picture of the T-86 in my Avanti :



                            The trans has to slide back over the X-member, and then once the input
                            shaft comes out of the bellhousing, the front drops down and the trans
                            comes out. The big empty hole :



                            Sitting on the garage floor ready to go to its new home.



                            Tom
                            '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                            Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                            http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                            I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Looks like things are moving right along.Thanks for the update

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I measured the Driveshaft last night. The dimension I get is 45-7/8"
                                from universal to universal. Rear universal to yoke tip is 51-3/8". I
                                measured the transmissions, and the difference is the TKO is 3 to 3.5
                                inches shorter. So I need a longer driveshaft then I have. Roughly I
                                need a 48" to 49" inch long driveshaft as measured from universal to
                                universal. I am making the shifter adapter, which as Dan showed is a
                                piece of steel with 4 holes drilled 2 inches apart. This will set the
                                shifter back (toward the rear of the car) 2 inches. The hole spacing
                                is 7/8" from center to center and is a 3/8 diameter hole. I have the
                                speedometer cable to sort out (research shows a first Gen Mustang is
                                a possible match), and I need a shifter stick long enough to make it
                                through the floor to the correct height. Do you have a length Dan? A
                                part number would also be nice. I also found I need a boot for the
                                top of the Pro 5.0 shifter. In the Mustangs there is an intermediate
                                floor that seals the top of the shifter from the elements, the Stude
                                does not have this. I think I found a Hurst boot that might work. It
                                will be in addition to the boot you SEE on the floor.

                                Tom
                                '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                                Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                                http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                                I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                                Comment

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