1964 Studebaker Lark Front Suspension

[sbca96]

Funny, I mentioned that the Phantom front end was Mustang II parts -
got ripped for it. Now, someone who installed one agreed with me? If
its not too late, I would be inclined to remove the Phantom, and put a
Stude front suspension back on. New rubber bushings, tierod ends and
the like will go a long way. Usually what causes a Stude to drive "all
over the road" is the bellcrank being worn, if you had powersteering
and had done any work on the control valve, there is an adjustment on
the back under the aluminum cover that controls sensitivity. After I
rebuilt mine, it was almost uncontrolable, turning the nut just ONE of
the flats looseward .. made it steer like a dream.

If you want modern brakes to go with the '94 booster/Stude front end,
shoot me an email, I'll do yah way better then dinky Granada brakes and
fill the inside of those 17 inch wheels.



Tom

[willie j]

Tom,

My Studie did not have power steering on the car. I hate to go back to the original front suspension. It would be a major problem which I don't really want to do. By this I am talking about changing headers, steering column, as well as trying to make everything fit after I built the front of the car around Rene's suspension package.

I do know that the bell crank bushings were good on the car. I restored a 63 Lark Convertible that my son inherited and know about the bell crank bushing issue. His was bad and replacing the bushing helped a great deal. He has 18" tires and wheels on his stock suspension with Turner brakes. By stating the car is all over the road I meant when you are driving it, particularly on a rutted road you don't know if it is going to go left, right or straight. His car doesn't drive as well as I would like for it to, but he just puts up with it.

I am pretty sure my front wheels on the 64 Lark are 17" by 7" and the
rear ones are l7" by 8". By the way your Avanti looks great! I am sure your tires are a lot larger than mine. I have 225 by 45 by 17 on the front and 235 by 55 by 17 on the rear. I will send you a separate e-mail about the large brakes on your Avanti. I am trying to insert a photo of the Lark. As I stated previously I am new to the forum and am still trying to get my profile the way I want it.

[willie j]

quote:Originally posted by PackardV8

Greetings, willie j,

We are all very interested in real-world owner feedback on the Phantom front suspension conversion. If you have occasion to pull the springs for any reason, can you set up a bump-steer gauge and let us know what you find?

thnx, jv

PackardV8

Jack,

In all the information I gave you on my last post, I did not mention that I have not had any bump steer with Rene's front suspension package, no matter what spring combination I had in the car, just all of the problems I mentioned.

Willie J

[sbca96]

Your going to have to reduce your signature picture or complaints will
start. You can use a program like Irfanview to reduce and resize it.
I usually take my digital camera pictures and reduce them to 25%, then
save them to 80% of original - they start out at 4 mb a piece.

Unfortunately (for you) my disc setup uses the stock suspension, with
a Granada spindle you are married to whatever aftermarket kits their
making for Granadas - I would guess thats zero. What you've described
in your posts sounds like a nightmare, I can not imagine spending that
much and being this disappointed. I'm worried about the inconsistancy
between sides, and shortening a-arms to make things work. That will
throw off any balance you have. Obviously, the same would have to be
dont to the opposite side, thats dangerous ground. If the popping is
the only problem, perhaps you could use shorter springs, with a higher
rate, and put aluminum spacers under the bottom. It is possible the
spring is rotating and creating the noise. The aluminum would act as
an insulator - they used them on Avanti IIs. I dont know how close it
is to the Granada spindle, but Mustang Steve makes a disc setup very
similar to mine for early Mustangs. Perhaps you could adapt it?

http://www.mustangsteve.com/cobrabrakes.html

I am running 245/45R17 all the way around, BTW beautiful convertible!

Tom

[Alan]

All I can say wiilie j, Is that is one sweet ride but I would rather see it from the bottom side.

[Mike Van Veghten]

Willie -

Using the new suspension MAY have uncovered a crack in the frame or front crossmember that wasn't a problem with the stock stuff but is now with the Phantom parts. When a cracked piece of steel moves it pops like you are talking about. Couple that with many peoples findings in frame rails and crossmembers that have cracks right there in and around the a-arm mounting points and the spring pockets.
No guarentees...just another thing that others have run into with Stude frames. One guy was even selling cardboard patterns to transfer to steel and weld to the frame.

Another thing to check. Do you have an anti-sway bar attached? The sway bar (or any other item!?)may be touching a control arm or other part of a moving part (or frame) during the arm movement. Check for full a-arm (suspension) movement to verify hard parts don't bang into each other.

And just a note on the R&P vs. bump steer......
Just because the tie rod/ends are parallel to the ground...in no way effects the bump steer..good or bad. Done right...the tie rod joint at the rack body...basically....should be in line with a line drawn between the upper a-arm pivot point and the lower a-arm pivot point. Where ever the R&P is mounted...the R&P "joint" should be near that line. And that's just the starting point.

Good luck.

Mike

[willie j]

quote:Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten

Willie -
Mike,

I have been out of pocket for about three weeks. Got tired of working on Studies. I tried to answer your post a few minutes ago and I think I sent it off before I wrote anything. Like I said I am new to the forum. In answer to your request about the sway bar, yes that is the first thing I removed, thinking that may be what the problem might be and that didn't fix anything.

55Prez sent me a photo of what to look for on the front cross member possibly being cracked and I printed that photo and am going to go look some more. I have checked the spring pocket, the frame in front and back of the spring pocket and didn't find anything. I also checked the front cross member where the A frames bolt onto it and haven't found anything. I have tightened every bolt that I put in this suspension and didn't find anything yet. I have checked all of the new ball joints and tie rod ends and no excessive play. I haven't given up yet, but it is frustrating, because I really like the car and it is fun to drive.

Thanks for the ideas.

Bill jones aka willie j


Using the new suspension MAY have uncovered a crack in the frame or front crossmember that wasn't a problem with the stock stuff but is now with the Phantom parts. When a cracked piece of steel moves it pops like you are talking about. Couple that with many peoples findings in frame rails and crossmembers that have cracks right there in and around the a-arm mounting points and the spring pockets.
No guarentees...just another thing that others have run into with Stude frames. One guy was even selling cardboard patterns to transfer to steel and weld to the frame.

Another thing to check. Do you have an anti-sway bar attached? The sway bar (or any other item!?)may be touching a control arm or other part of a moving part (or frame) during the arm movement. Check for full a-arm (suspension) movement to verify hard parts don't bang into each other.

And just a note on the R&P vs. bump steer......
Just because the tie rod/ends are parallel to the ground...in no way effects the bump steer..good or bad. Done right...the tie rod joint at the rack body...basically....should be in line with a line drawn between the upper a-arm pivot point and the lower a-arm pivot point. Where ever the R&P is mounted...the R&P "joint" should be near that line. And that's just the starting point.

Good luck.

Mike

[buddymander]

I bet you forgot to grease the lower ball joint. Don't ask me how I know....

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by willie j
I haven't given up yet, but it is frustrating, because I really like the car and it is fun to drive.

Don't give up, Bill! That is ONE BEAUTIFUL LARK[]. It's one of the few I personally wouldn't change a thing on (well, except for the popping noise in the front end ). Perfect color combination, seats, drivetrain, stance, etc.

[buddymander]

So...what turned out to be causing the popping noise???

[sals54]

Have you checked the fit of the spring in the lower pocket? It sounds as though the spring may be shifting in the pocket as the spring loads and unloads. The only other thing I can think of is one of the the spring coils hitting the edge of the lower or upper pocket as it moves through its normal travel. This would be more of problem on the inner side of the spring, since the coil travels in an arc as it moves with the suspension, and therefore may be binding up on the coil pocket in the A arm. It would be easy enough to check this by looking for marks on the coil pocket or abrasions on the coil itself where ever it may be striking the A arms or the coil pockets. Good luck.

[buddymander]

Did you grease the ball joints or not??

[1962larksedan]

'Stupid' trick here; try squirting some WD40 or similar where the coil spring pockets are and test drive the car.

[nels]

I assume you are using coil springs that have dead coils on both ends?? If not. the second coil will pop over the first coil when the spring is compressed. I've had that happen when experimenting with after market coils in the stock set up. Gives off a popping sound.

[willie j]

quote:Originally posted by nels

I assume you are using coil springs that have dead coils on both ends?? If not. the second coil will pop over the first coil when the spring is compressed. I've had that happen when experimenting with after market coils in the stock set up. Gives off a popping sound.

Nels,

I have used both Stock Stude V-8 Springs and Stude 6 Cylinder springs for the 1965/66 cars that used the six cylinder Chevy engine. Both of these have the popping sound and they are supposed to be progressive rate springs and had the dead coil on each end of the spring. The custom springs I had made by Coil Springs Specialties in ST. Mary's KS are not the progressive rate spring and they also gave off the popping sound.

I have ordered new coil spring isolators from Eaton Detroit Springs and I will put one of them on top and bottom of each spring. I had the stock coil spring isolators in the car when I started, but they were only used on the bottom of each spring. Putting one on the top and bottom may help.

I have a problem with the Phantom front end on the right wheel, which happens to be the one that is making the noise, in that the camber adjustment is not enough to bring the top of the tire/wheel enough to get the proper camber adjustment. I am out of adjustment and the tire/wheel is still out too much at the top. Rene Harger is sending out an upper control arm that is 7 1/2 inches long to replace the 8 inch long control arm that he usually uses. Hopefully this will correct the camber problem.

He is also sending me another spindle and upper ball joint in case the original units he uses may be defective. When I get these parts, I will install everything and see if this corrects the popping noise and the camber problem.

Bill J