1964 Studebaker Lark Front Suspension

[willie j]

quote:Originally posted by buddymander

Did you grease the ball joints or not??

I have been off of the forum for a few weeks and just checked it. Yes I did grease the upper and lower ball joints again, and I still do not know what is causing the noise. I have responded to Nels' post a few minutes ago with some other ideas and answering his post.

Bill J

[wcarroll@outrageous.net]

Hi Willie J.

Sorry to hear you're having problems with the Phantom conversion. I have two kits (Avanti & '54 Commander) and although neither car is yet drivable, I have had my fair share of problems and frustrations. It sounds like you have already spent a considerable amount of time trying to diagnose the problem. Having first hand experience with the installation and design of these conversion kits, I am at a loss for what might be causing your mysterious popping noise. I would suggest using a laptop and small USB camera to help diagnose the problem. If you don't have a laptop maybe you could borrow one. USB camera's with audio are pretty darn cheap as are extension USB cables. Mount the camera in a strategic spot, place the laptop in the passenger seat, then hit record and go for a drive. This would allow you to better document what is happening both visually and audibly. I know it seems like a lot of work, but it might just shed some light on your problem. I sure hope you get things sorted out -that's too beautiful of a car to be frustrated with.

http://community.webshots.com/user/s2dbaker?vhost=community

[chocolate turkey]

I've spent significant time with a tool called "chassis Ears", a listening devise that helps locate noises that are dificult to pinpoint.
This tool has 5 or 6 clamps that are connected to various points and allow you to switch between each point, slowly but surely isolating the culprit. Buy one or rent one, you'll be pleased.
There is a local hot rod shop who put in one of Phantoms rack kits and cursed the day he saw it. Many mods later he thinks he's got it working. (1955 Connestoga station wagon)

Brian K. Curtis,
1925 Duplex-Phaeton ER
1949 1/2 ton pickup
1963 GT Hawk custom
1966 Daytona 2dr

[willie j]

quote:Originally posted by wcarroll@outrageous.net



I am not sure what you are referring to as a USB camera. I have a Sony Digital Camera, but it is a fairly high end camera at $500.00 and I do have a lap top computer. Is the camera you are talking about some kind of small movie camera? Please let me know a little more about the USB camera.

I also have a battery powered listening device that you use with special ear muffs and it is very sensitive, but am not sure how I could use mine to go to four or five different listening points like Chocolate Turkey mentions. I live in a town of 30,000 people in the southwest corner of Kansas in the middle of nowhere and we have a couple of rental places in town, and I will check to see what they have.

By the way your webshot is a very nice item. I looked at all of your photos and it appears that you are leaving in the Stude engine in since I see the stock stude front engine mounts are still in place. AS you know an Avanti frame is the same thing as a Lark Convertible. It appears to me that the frame I see on your webshot page is probably the 54 Commander since I don't see any x-member in the frame.

I have a drive on lift and use it a lot. We have not been able to reproduce the popping noise with the car on the lift. A concern that is as serious as the popping noise is not being able to get the camber adjusted in enough at the top of the right wheel with Rene's setup. We are going to try a shorter upper right side a frame if he ever gets it to me and I am going to put new spring isolators in place (two on each spring) that I bought from Eaton Detroit spring co.

Right now I have about three grand in the front suspension and it still doesn't work correctly and cannot find any evidence of a cracked frame on the car.

Willie J

Hi Willie J.

Sorry to hear you're having problems with the Phantom conversion. I have two kits (Avanti & '54 Commander) and although neither car is yet drivable, I have had my fair share of problems and frustrations. It sounds like you have already spent a considerable amount of time trying to diagnose the problem. Having first hand experience with the installation and design of these conversion kits, I am at a loss for what might be causing your mysterious popping noise. I would suggest using a laptop and small USB camera to help diagnose the problem. If you don't have a laptop maybe you could borrow one. USB camera's with audio are pretty darn cheap as are extension USB cables. Mount the camera in a strategic spot, place the laptop in the passenger seat, then hit record and go for a drive. This would allow you to better document what is happening both visually and audibly. I know it seems like a lot of work, but it might just shed some light on your problem. I sure hope you get things sorted out -that's too beautiful of a car to be frustrated with.

http://community.webshots.com/user/s2dbaker?vhost=community

[willie j]

quote:Originally posted by chocolate turkey

Brian,

I have a set of chassis ears type of tool that I bought from Snap-On Tools but it doesn't have anything that will allow you to check several attachment points. Mine has a set of earmuffs that is 9 volt battery powered and has a single point that you touch on the point you want to listen to. Mine isn't much longer than a doctor's stethoscope. I will check with Snap-On tools and see if they have any other attachment pieces that I can buy for my Snap-On (Ears).

Thanks for the idea.

Bill Jones aka willie j



I've spent significant time with a tool called "chassis Ears", a listening devise that helps locate noises that are dificult to pinpoint.
This tool has 5 or 6 clamps that are connected to various points and allow you to switch between each point, slowly but surely isolating the culprit. Buy one or rent one, you'll be pleased.
There is a local hot rod shop who put in one of Phantoms rack kits and cursed the day he saw it. Many mods later he thinks he's got it working. (1955 Connestoga station wagon)

Brian K. Curtis,
1925 Duplex-Phaeton ER
1949 1/2 ton pickup
1963 GT Hawk custom
1966 Daytona 2dr

[willie j]

quote:Originally posted by chocolate turkey

I've spent significant time with a tool called "chassis Ears", a listening devise that helps locate noises that are dificult to pinpoint.
This tool has 5 or 6 clamps that are connected to various points and allow you to switch between each point, slowly but surely isolating the culprit. Buy one or rent one, you'll be pleased.
There is a local hot rod shop who put in one of Phantoms rack kits and cursed the day he saw it. Many mods later he thinks he's got it working. (1955 Connestoga station wagon)

Brian K. Curtis,
1925 Duplex-Phaeton ER
1949 1/2 ton pickup
1963 GT Hawk custom
1966 Daytona 2dr

Brian,

Do you have the contact name and phone number of the local shop that worked on the Connestaoga wagon? If you can let me know I will call him and asked what he had to do to make everything work.

Bill J

[Allan Songer]

Just a thought. Is it possible that the Phantom suspension mod isn't very well engineered? I mean, just because it FITS doesn't mean it WORKS.

[willie j]

quote:Originally posted by Allan Songer

Just a thought. Is it possible that the Phantom suspension mod isn't very well engineered? I mean, just because it FITS doesn't mean it WORKS.

I have said all along that the Phantom Front End is not well engineered. He tries to say it fits all Studies, but when you call him about it he wants to talk about the C&K cars and then tries to tell you it fits a Lark also.

Following things are noted.

1. Had to cut the oil pan to make it clear the rack and pinion.

2. AFter I had the oil pan customized, the loop of the rack hit the
pan so I had to modify the rack.

3. I have had three different set of coil springs in the car and
finally have a custom made set that is giving the right spring
rate and ride height.

4. The angle of the connecting shaft that connects the Flaming River
Steering Column to the Rack and pinion is so severe that you have
to grind some of the meat out of the top universal joint, which in
itself can create a safety problem if you aren't careful. The
angle is about 45 Degrees and the Borgeson single steering u-joint
is only designed to not be used at over 30 to 35 degrees. IF you
try to use a double top u-joint you have to have a support
bearing holding the shaft in place and there is not room for the
support bearing because of the rack and pinion and upper a-frame
being in the road.

This isn't everything. Yes I would say the design isn't completely correct, and Rene doesn't give enough info about the things that can be or are wrong with his instructions.

Willie J

[wcarroll@outrageous.net]

I was referring to a cheap camera often used in conjunction with a personal computer -also known as a webcam. USB (universal serial bus) is the type of connector it uses to connect to a computer. They're so darn cheap I figured if it were to get damaged it would be no big deal. I have a Phantom kit on my Avanti which has the same frame as your Lark type, but am installing a late model LT1 Chevy setup. I too had to use a custom oil pan and modify the hoop that the rack bolts to. The best way to get around your problem with the steering joint/shaft angles is to cut off the drivers-side rack mounting tab on the hoop and change the angle so that the rack rotates upward -allowing a more direct shot to the column. Did you use the stock column or an aftermarket? Since the other end of the rack uses a rubber mount, the whole unit can rotate without changing any of the geometry. Take a close look at the picks of my Avanti using the direct link below and you will see what I'm talking about. Let me know if you have any other questions. -Will

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2862664400078480179kDsyVa

http://community.webshots.com/user/s2dbaker?vhost=community

[1962larksedan]

I just glanced through this thread and it answered a big question of mine.

I was thinking of going with the 'Phantom' suspension kit but 'something' kept dissuading me.

I now know why.

Being a front end/alignment man by trade; I cringe at having to jury rig a putative kit to make it fit.

[Tom Bredehoft]

Popping noises. I just remembered. After I had installed my new shocks in the back end. I know, this is in the front and it doesn't apply, but I gotta put this in anyway.

I had reversed the mounting screws top and bottom, and one was longer than the other. I cranked down on the nut to tighten the shock mount, and after a short drive reversed the screws. On the long screw the nut had jammed on the threads and the mount was clicking every time I hit a slight bump. Click-click Click-click.

[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Bothcars4.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'55 President State Sedan (Under Construction)97 hrs.
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All Indiana built cars

[sbca96]

The 94-96 Impala SS front suspension "pops" quite loud when the wheel
is turned to lock. The noise is the knuckle hitting the steering stop
and making noise. The "cure" is to grease the contact point. I just
thought of this the other day. Might not apply.

Tom

[willie j]

[quote]Originally posted by sbca96

The 94-96 Impala SS front suspension "pops" quite loud when the wheel
is turned to lock. The noise is the knuckle hitting the steering stop
and making noise. The "cure" is to grease the contact point. I just
thought of this the other day. Might not apply.

Tom


Tom,

This popping noise is not noted when you are turning the front wheels or anything like that. It happens as you are driving in a straight line and not necessarily making any kind of turn in either direction


Willie J

[sbca96]

Sorry, was just a thought ... its a very odd problem for sure. I dont
see this thread as helping out sales for Phantom.

Tom