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Thread: pertronix ll on Avanti 63 - r1

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    pertronix ll on Avanti 63 - r1

    Had a perfect running car and thought I would be smart and replace the points with electronic ignition purchased pertronix ignitor-ll 91584 and a pertronix flame thrower coil. Can anyone give me the proper installation wiring. I have the car running, but runs with great hesitation and no tachometer, due to the fact that the tach is erratic and I disconnected it. I connected the wiring to the manufactures specs. there are a few wires left over. I'm in over my head can anyone help? Thanks in advance, Tony

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    President Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    IIRC, black wire to negative post on coil; red wire to positive post on coil.

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    red positive and black negative is from the ignitor-ll module. Black wire from the ignition key to red . Yes, the car runs with hesitation. How do I re hook up the tach or rewire it? and what do I do with the black and green wire?

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    This was on the HAMB, any help?

    http://www.lbfun.com/warehouse/tech_...x%20wiring.jpg

    If the green wire is tach signal, negative side of the coil generally.

    Bob
    Last edited by sweetolbob; 09-19-2013 at 09:56 PM.
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    Bob, The bottom illustration is the one matching my installation. Question, must I use the resistor block at all? the way I have it hooked up is ignition switch directly to positive. If these diagrams are for 289 R1 the black tach wire is missing and the black and green is also missing both should be connected to the coil. By the way thanks for your help and input it is much appreciated. Tony

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    Golden Hawk Member Dick Steinkamp's Avatar
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    I think the diagrams Bob provided are generic and not specific to an Avanti.

    Here is your STOCK wiring diagram. (click it to enlarge it)


    The bottom diagram in Bob's post effectively bypasses the resistor. You can do the same thing by moving the black/green wire coming from the ignition switch to the + terminal of the Pertronix coil. The Pertronix coil wants to see 12v all the time as opposed to the stock coil that wants to only see 12v on start then 6-8v. The wire from the starter solenoid that provided 12v when the starter was turning should be disconnected from the solenoid. The black wire from the Pertronix module should go to the - terminal on the Pertronix coil. The red wire from the Pertronix module should go to the + terminal on the Pertronix coil.

    The black wire that went to the tachometer can now be connected to the - terminal on the coil.

    Pertronix has a great phone help line. If you continue to have problems, you should give them a call.
    Last edited by Dick Steinkamp; 09-20-2013 at 10:04 AM.
    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA


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    Quote Originally Posted by firstplaceR1 View Post
    Bob, The bottom illustration is the one matching my installation. Question, must I use the resistor block at all? the way I have it hooked up is ignition switch directly to positive. If these diagrams are for 289 R1 the black tach wire is missing and the black and green is also missing both should be connected to the coil. By the way thanks for your help and input it is much appreciated. Tony
    Tony

    Dick S has a lot more experience than I with Petronix so it looks like you are headed in the right direction. From the illustration, the resistor block only looks like a convenient way to connect the wires together on one end.

    Let me add, Welcome to the forum!!!!

    Bob
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    Dick. check out the installation instructions on Bob Johnstones Studebaker Resorce website.

    http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/tach/tachpert.html

    This is what has me totally confused. Tony

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    Golden Hawk Member Dick Steinkamp's Avatar
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    Tony,

    According to the stock Avanti wiring diagram, there is not the pink resistor wire as shown on Bob Johnstone's page in a 63 Avanti that you would find in a 63 Hawk or Lark. The Avanti has a ballast resistor (a Hawk or Lark does not have this due to the pink resistor wire) and the wire from the ignition switch to the coil is black with a green tracer not pink. Also, the 12v when cranking wire is shown as black in the Avanti wiring diagram and as green with a black tracker on Bob Johnstone's page (I know it is green with a black tracer for Hawks and Larks, but I don't have an Avanti here to double check the factory wiring diagram). The wire to the tach sending unit is shown as black in the Avanti diagram and as green on Bob Johnstone's page. There are other several other differences between the factory Avanti wiring diagram and the info on Bob Johnstones page. Not only wire color differences, but also routing. (There is also the chance that your Avanti wiring harness has been modified in the past by a previous owner and may not match ANY of these colors.)

    Hopefully an Avanti owner can chime in here and let us know if the wiring diagram I linked to is, in fact, how Avantis are wired. If so, the info on Bob Johnstone's page will not be much help for an Avanti.

    One other thing. On Bob Johnstone's diagrams, it shows the wire from the tach sending unit (green on his, black on the Avanti diagram) going to to the + terminal on the coil. I had said to put this on the - terminal which is how I have always done it...but I have never used a stock Studebaker tach sending unit. I can't see how the sending unit can get an RPM signal this way, but stranger things have happened with Studebakers.
    Last edited by Dick Steinkamp; 09-21-2013 at 10:32 AM.
    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA


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    Dick, Worked on my car a couple hours today and have her running fairly well without hesitation. The vacuum registers 10 at idle and increases with additional power. Timing is set at about 8 degrees btdc. However, I still do not have the tach working which wire on the starter solenoid do I disconnect there are four. One from the battery positive, the black and green, yellow, red, black. Thanks for all your help, Tony

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    Golden Hawk Member Dick Steinkamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstplaceR1 View Post
    Dick, Worked on my car a couple hours today and have her running fairly well without hesitation. The vacuum registers 10 at idle and increases with additional power. Timing is set at about 8 degrees btdc. However, I still do not have the tach working which wire on the starter solenoid do I disconnect there are four. One from the battery positive, the black and green, yellow, red, black. Thanks for all your help, Tony
    The wiring diagram for an Avanti isn't even close to what you actually have. The wiring diagram shows the cable from the + terminal of the battery going in one side along with a heavy red wire going to the ammeter. Then the cable going to the starter. There are two other terminals. One should have a white wire with a red tracer going to the key switch and the other a black wire going to the + side of the coil. If yours isn't like this, I can't help.

    Are you sure you are looking at the starter solenoid?
    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA


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    It is as you describe. The starter solenoid is to the right and below the voltage regulator.
    The yellow I described might have been white. Which wire needs to be disconnected to complete the tach wiring.
    The black wire to the coil negative -, can be connected but it is erratic. There is however a black and green that you do not mention.

  13. #13
    Golden Hawk Member Dick Steinkamp's Avatar
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    Tony,
    The number of wires and colors of them on your solenoid do not match the Avanti wiring diagram. I can't help, unfortunately.
    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA


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    Dick, you have been a great help! Stay with me. in your first reply you said " The Pertronix coil wants to see 12v all the time as opposed to the stock coil that wants to only see 12v on start then 6-8v. The wire from the starter solenoid that provided 12v when the starter was turning should be disconnected from the solenoid." Looking at the solenoid on the wiring diagram which wire should I disconnect? Which wire provides the 6-8 volts on the wiring diagram? Tony

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    President Member bezhawk's Avatar
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    The Avanti colors are different than the GT Hawk, and Larks. The Avanti has a seperate wire not taped into the harness that runs from the starter soleniod to the coil + (pale green with a black tracer stripe). This is because the wire was somehow overlooked and later deemed necessary. The wire from the tach sender to the coil - is black . The power wire to the ignition coil resistor (during run position) is black with a green tracer stripe. A small red wire runs from the other side of the resistor to the coil for the lower run voltage.
    Bez Auto Alchemy
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    http://bezautoalchemy.com

  16. #16
    Golden Hawk Member Dick Steinkamp's Avatar
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    Tony,
    This is REAL tough to do long distance. Based on Brad's info above (thanks, Brad!), the actual wiring colors in an Avanti don't entirely correspond to the wiring diagram for an Avanti that I linked to and it doesn't appear that your actual wiring corresponds to either.

    Is there any way you can just put it back to stock and then at some point in time, enlist the on site assistance of someone who has successfully installed Pertronix in an Avanti? Quite frankly, the stock, dual point ignition on your car is pretty good. You MIGHT notice a little easier starting with the Pertronix, but unless you drive the car hard and often, the advantages of the Pertronix (no points to adjust or replace, hotter spark) would probably not be noticed.

    Disconnecting the wire that provides 12v when cranking is optional. I would do it just because it isn't needed with the Pertronix coil, but this isn't necessary. Brad says this wire should be pale green with a black stripe.

    Brad confirms that an Avanti has a ballast resistor, not a pink resistor wire (it can't have both), so the info on Bob Johnstone's page does not apply to an Avanti (with the possible exception of the tachometer part)

    The power wire from the ignition switch is black with a green tracer. In stock form, this wire is on one end of the ballast resistor and there is a red wire on the other end of the ballast resistor that goes to the coil. You can either put the black with a green tracer directly to the + terminal of the Pertronix coil, or move it to the same terminal on the ballast resistor as the red wire that already goes to the + terminal on the coil.
    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA


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    Gentleman, The Avanti is running fine now! black w green tracer from the ignition key to positive +, red ignitor ll to the coil positive+, green and black to positive +.
    On the negative - post on coil is the black from the ignitor ll. There should also be the black tach wire on the negative -. However the tach if hooked up runs erratically. The only problem I have is how do I get the tachometer to work properly again?
    By the way I have thought about putting back the points, the original coil, and screw the electronic stuff, but after all this work, I'm so close to the solution I can taste it. As to the performance of the car with the electronic ignition the response is great and runs flawlessly with out a tach. Had it out for a long open road run and the response was great. I was hoping that another Avanti owner tried this and would have the answers. You guys have been great. maybe we can figure it out. Tony

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    Dick,Bob and Joe, I want to thank you for your input. I finally have have everything working properly. Blowing up and laminating the wiring diagram, and purchasing a Power Probe lll made all the difference. A carb readjustment and timing of the engine to eliminate the hesitation corrected the tach also. By the way the tach is connected to the Negative -. That Bob Johnston's page really had me going crazzzzzzzy!

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    Golden Hawk Member Dick Steinkamp's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting the "epilog", Tony.

    Have fun with your Avanti!
    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA


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    President Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Glad you got her going Tony. Happy motoring

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    Had a Pertronix Coil wired according to Pert's directions (no ballast resistor). Coil burnt out - Pert replaced the coil and strongly suggested wiring in the resistor - Stated the coil would run cooler and be less likely to fail. First one lasted less than one month, the second (w/ resistor) has been going for almost a year.
    Paul TK

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    Hi Paul,
    I have a pertronix coil, it states that it has an internal resistor. Flame thrower I, not a Flame thrower II. I will keep checking how hot it is getting and let you know. Tony

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