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  • Front Axle / Front Suspension: Kingpin to ball joint suspension conversion?

    I haven't even bought my first Studebaker, and here I am looking for upgrades!

    I understand that disc brakes are a worthwhile change, but I was looking at the Ford sites and I saw people converting not just their brakes, but also converting their suspension from Kingpin to ball joint.

    The Fords had a kit, but I wonder if anyone here has ever done such to a Hawk? (and to show my newbie status, I'll follow that up with "All Hawks did use kingpins, didn't they?")

    Phillip

  • #2
    Yes, Phil; all Studebakers to the end had king-pin front suspension.

    The closest thing you could come to making such a swap would be to use one of the whole assemblies offered by Rene Harger at Slick Street Stuff in Knoxville TN. That's pretty extreme, but I don't know of anyone making a retrofit conversion to ball joints using your existing front suspension components (A-frames, etc.).

    Unless there are extenuating circumstances, like you are building an intentionally-modified car (nothing wrong with that, BTW), it is usually best to retain the Studebaker king pins and just rebuild the front suspension accordingly. BP
    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by pbrown View Post
      I haven't even bought my first Studebaker, and here I am looking for upgrades!

      I understand that disc brakes are a worthwhile change, but I was looking at the Ford sites and I saw people converting not just their brakes, but also converting their suspension from Kingpin to ball joint.

      The Fords had a kit, but I wonder if anyone here has ever done such to a Hawk? (and to show my newbie status, I'll follow that up with "All Hawks did use kingpins, didn't they?")

      Phillip
      Let me suggest that you read and consider the data in this post. http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...rt-suspension)

      Do a search for more before you run off on this quest. Not suggesting you don't do it but go into it knowing your options and available data.

      Bob

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      • #4
        If they have been properly installed and maintained, Studebaker king pins will easily outlast ball joints and are stronger. I suppose you could tackle a ball joint conversion "because you can", but I doubt it that in itself would result in making the car handle any better.

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        • #5
          and like beating a dead horse: make sure you jot down somewhere in the owners' manual or at least in the glove box what you actually change on the vehicle. A friend of mine just bought a slightly modified 58' Country Sedan out of Indiana..... A nice car, but with a later Ford front end. Now he needs front springs, and the PO stated that he cut down the front coils to get a better profile. BTW, he said, I dropped in a later small block Ford engine w/o fuel injection. So... a new and different front spindle, brakes and suspension and a newer engine.....He's wondering what front springs to install ....

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          • #6
            We have a '65 Wagonaire up here in Washington that someone cut the ends of the "A" Arms off and welded on some GM Chevelle I think "A" Arm ends with the 20,000 mile (if you are lucky) Ball Joints and Air bags, just a useless undriveable piece of junk, it will have to be converted back to make it drive straight, turn correctly and get normal tire wear etc.

            Your Car your money, but not what I would do.
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner
            SDC Member Since 1967

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            • #7
              Originally posted by 63 R2 Hawk View Post
              If they have been properly installed and maintained, Studebaker king pins will easily outlast ball joints and are stronger. I suppose you could tackle a ball joint conversion "because you can", but I doubt it that in itself would result in making the car handle any better.
              I couldn't agree more. I have never seen a Studebaker alongside the road with a front wheel assembly hanging off the car from a broken kingpin front, but I have seen plenty of ball-joint cars with that problem.
              Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia.
              '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Avanti R-1, Museum R-4 engine, '72 Gravely Model 430 with Onan engine

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              • #8
                Thanks for the tips ! I now have the 59 Silver Hawk in my garage, and I now know that it drives like a bus! So, if we forget the kingpin conversion, do I need to also live with it "as is"? Or are there other things in the steering that I could change to make it more of a "modern feeling" car?

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                • #9
                  Better shocks, larger anti-sway bars (frt & RR), modern perf. tires with a slightly wider wheel rim, along with the existing stock suspension parts swapped to put them in good condition...all go toward a fairly nice handling old car.
                  Will it corner with a new Camaro or Mustang...no, but will it, "out corner" a stock/original Hawk...yes.

                  Just the anti-sway bars and stiffer shocks will be the main contributors toward better handling...but it ALL counts and needs to be done. Even modifying the springs to lower the car an inch or three.

                  Mike

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                  • #10
                    Think about adding factory power steering to Your Hawk, Even with the front suspension in good condition...some V8 Studebakers really need it!

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                    • #11
                      Studebakers in good shape do not "Drive Like a Bus" or Truck. If you want bad, try driving a '49-'54 Chevy some time!

                      You have several options to improve the drivability of your Car:

                      Number ONE, do I remember correctly that this Silver Hawk WAS a 6 Cyl.?
                      If so that could mean a 6 Cyl. Type Steering Gear for a lighter front end.

                      If it is a "C" body Coupe BEFORE 59S-8777 it has a lighter weight Ross TYPE TL Gearbox than AFTER that Serial which used the V8 Box, Type SL.

                      And then the King Pins and upper and lower Outer PINS need to be in good shape and taking Grease.
                      Inner "A" Arm bushings (Rubber and Steel) in very good condition.

                      Probably the most important thing; the Alignment, not many Shops nowadays understand how to do this right, it will take some research to find the right Shop within a few hundred miles.

                      Even Tire Air Pressure and Tire width have an impact.

                      If it "wanders" all over the road it could be: Loose (worn) Steering Gear, worn Tie Rod Ends, Reach Rod, Loose Center Bellcrank Bearings, or lock Bolt, uneven left to Right side Caster, not enough Toe-in and more.
                      StudeRich
                      Second Generation Stude Driver,
                      Proud '54 Starliner Owner
                      SDC Member Since 1967

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
                        Number ONE, do I remember correctly that this Silver Hawk WAS a 6 Cyl.?
                        If so that could mean a 6 Cyl. Type Steering Gear for a lighter front end.

                        If it is a "C" body Coupe BEFORE 59S-8777 it has a lighter weight Ross TYPE TL Gearbox than AFTER that Serial which used the V8 Box, Type SL.
                        It is 59S-10856, so I guess it does have the V8 box even though it started as a 6. I'll do a forum search for how to add Power Steering.

                        I'll also start looking at the parts you suggested to make sure they are all at their best.

                        Thanks

                        Phillip

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thats good advice above; when I got my 58 Hawk thats the first thing I noticed; how tough it was to
                          steer. So I immediately thought about putting in power steering. But in the process of restorating the car,
                          I made sure everthing up front was well lubricated and working well, including the steering box, which was
                          almost empty. After that and new tires, I forgot about power steering. if you feel you still want to improve the
                          steering after going through everything, adding power steering in an option, OR switching over to the Lark-type
                          Saginaw recirculating ball steering box.

                          Joe D.

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                          • #14
                            Speaking of shocks; What do you guys use? I'll be doing that soon.
                            1964 Gran turismo Hawk
                            1954 Packard Pacific

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                            • #15
                              I like KYB shocks on my GT, I bought the Gas A Just for mid 70s Camero and replaced the rear top mount and fabbed some cages for the front lower mounts. Got tired of buying the cheesy shocks they make for Studebakers, the Gas A Just gets firmer as the road/driving gets more aggressive but gives a smooth ride around town. Not sure if those will fit your car, but Bob Johnstone's website has lots of info on Stude shock cross references.

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