Price Of A Paint Job On A Hawk

[8E45E]

It is remarkable that some folks that have never painted a car by themselves to at least factory standards. Well. bear this in mind to start. A paint job and a paint job with body work are two different animals. Acceptable material by most peoples standards can be had from just bout any auto paint supplier for 1000.00 to include sandpaper, primer, base, and clear. I paid 700.00 a couple years ago for blue mist metallic. Red and some colors might be higher. I had a couple guys both spend no more than 40 hrs. each on refinishing to include taking off the bumpers and all trim. They wanted 2000. Ok, got the car back within 2 weeks and wasn't complety satisfied because of orange peel in the clear. They wet sanded it a bit more and rebuffed. Ok by me. Lot's of competent painters out there that don't mind making 1000. for 40 hrs work. How many folks here grossing 4000. per month here?

To achieve that better-than-factory paint job, one also needs the proper facility to do it in and necessary respratory equipment. I know some do it in thier own garage by sealing all the cracks, using fans to extract the fumes, with some filters on the air inlet on the opposite wall. That may work for the older solvent-based paints, but these new two-part paints, one truly needs a proper downdraft spray booth, and the resperatory equipment rated for use with isocyanates. The mist created by the paint spray must be effectively removed as it does not dry in the air, and will only settle back onto the paintwork with disappointing results. This is not something for a home garage, and the ventilation system costs plenty to do it properly. It would be very impractical to do this if one only plans on using it once or twice every five years.

Craig

[jclary]

It is remarkable that some folks that have never painted a car by themselves to at least factory standards.

Just to toy with the topic...FACTORY STANDARD...is not always a very lofty goal!

One needs to look no further than local highway traffic or parking lot to see some rather expensive late model vehicles with premature paint failure to see that manufacturers are probably the greatest practitioners of "corner cutting" on paint jobs.

[jimmijim8]

I've seen some MAACO'S look as good as a 6 grander. I'll bet some folks here wouldn't be caught dead in a Dollar General even if they were shopping for flowers for their own funeral. Go ahead, propogate the myth that a show car ain't showy enough until it's owner has had 9 thousand bucks taken in trade for results that can be had for much much less. cheers, a usta-be body and paint guy.

[jackb]

....good thread...I just bought 7 - 12oz. cans of Sherwin Williams "Antique White" for my 62' wagon. I'm going to spray the engine bay before engine install, then have a paint camera make up the formula for a Maaco cheapo cover....Specials around here are sometimes $500-700. Since I already have $2500. into a car that will never be worth $5000. the math adds up for me...

[Studeous]

To get a run in the door jam, like some originals, might cost extra on the 9k paint. I'm sure Maaco would throw that in for free.

[thunderations]

Just a footnote here..........the best materials and painter can't correct a dent or wave left in the body, but an average paint job over correct bodywork will still look good. Correct panel alignments are critical or the door, trunk and hood chips will ruin the best paint job. The hours spent before the painting are where the labor costs comes in. Do-it-yourselfers can use water based products and achieve great results without a booth or major respiratory equipment, just a clean, ventilated area. Beware that many metallic paints will "lay out" different if parts are painted separate, not hanging on the car when painted. You don't want the door to not match the fender or quarter. Some paints are more translucent then others and require multiple coats to achieve the correct color and may look blotchy if not enough coats are applied or if they are applied incorrectly. Lots of steps and conditions to get a nice paint job. Patience is probably one of the greatest assets you can have when it comes to bodywork and painting.

[JoeHall]

Just to toy with the topic...FACTORY STANDARD...is not always a very lofty goal!

One needs to look no further than local highway traffic or parking lot to see some rather expensive late model vehicles with premature paint failure to see that manufacturers are probably the greatest practitioners of "corner cutting" on paint jobs.

Good point. I understand the quality of the clear coat is very important, and the cheaper stuff is prone to clouding & lifting in a few years. I may even provide & deliver them the top shelf stuff, just to be sure they don't cut any corners there.

[Corley]

Guys, it doesn't have to be so expensive! Hot Rodders are discoverring that quality paint doesn't have to cost as much as the local stores sell it for, and for drivers, home shop paint jobs, low cost paints can be a real money saver. I've used paints from www.paintforcars.com for several driver type home paint jobs, and it is a quality paint at a bargain price. About 1/3 of the local paint stores cost. Eastwood has several paint products, and lot's of guys are shooting Summit's paint products. There are a few other online sellers as well.

What you miss with these are custom colors mixing. They only stock a limited supply of colors, but the material is the same quality stuff you pay big bucks for elsewhere. For example, you can buy a kit, consisting of a gallon of color, a gallon of clear, 2 quarts of reducer, and the catylist for it all, for less than $200, in a base coat/clear coat urethane. And, they throw in sticks and filters too.

I'd never suggest using this stuff on a show car, but for a driver... you just can't beat these prices for good quality paint locally, no matter how hard you try. UV concerns? Do you store the car inside? Then stop worrying, you will never have a problem, even if UV protection is not up to snuff (which it actually is, anyway).

As I said, I've used it on several cars, and have zero complaints with it. Even did my motorhome in it, my model A in it, and a few others, and am super happy with the results. Use this and an HVLP gun, and overspray is minimal, so the paint booth requirements won't kill you. If you want a super smooth surface, just color sand and polish it out.

Just remember, prep is 90% of a paint job!

PS There are also pearls and metalics available for cheap online, and they are lot's of fun to play with!

[sweetolbob]

Good point. I understand the quality of the clear coat is very important, and the cheaper stuff is prone to clouding & lifting in a few years. I may even provide & deliver them the top shelf stuff, just to be sure they don't cut any corners there.

Joe

I'm beginning to question your "trust" in the project. If they are using cheap filler and/or paint then putting quality clear/paint on a cheap base is setting you up for adhesion failure in the future. Somewhere they will be putting your materials over their materials, let them use what they know works from the get-go. If they are "trust worthy" in your opinion then work with them to be sure both sides are satisfied but if I owned a shop and you were bringing in bits and pieces of the materials, I would honestly tell you to take a hike.

How would you feel in reverse. If they are pros and you say they are, let them be pros.

Nothing personal intended but I can put myself in their shoes too.

Bob

[new2drive]

I have been chomping at the bit about this thread all morning.... I want to say so much but so know I am going to offend so many people... not on purpose mind you....

Ok, lets start with.... I have prepped cars for paint, painted them and also done a lot of chrome work... all, unfortunately BEFORE I became a collector myself.... I am a chemist and one of the things I do is paint, pricing, etc... I am sooooo in tune with prices that I even follow what the raw material costs are for dyes/colors... a lot come out of ther Soviet Union believe it or not....

I do not want to demean any painters... you do get what you pay for, it is just very unfortunate that most painters think they are worth 10k for a paint job.... Real quick... lets put that into perspective... 10k to paint a vehicle in their SPARE time over 3 months... lets start with that.... 10k/3mo... if they paint 4 cars a year.... thats 40k per year... lets not talk taxes, operating costs, etc... for a moment... Thats $40,000 USD per year for really working what? In truth... a standard paint job does not take 40 hours x 4 x 3 = 480 hours... remember, they are doing this when they are not doing their regular work or "when they have some time"...... YES, some projects can get involved... but a typical strip and clean car with little damage to repair prior to paint does NOT take 480 hours...

I don't know about you, but in my area... most union 40hr/week jobs will clear that in one year... but remember... the painter is NOT working 40 hour weeks for 3 months straight to paint your car......

So a painter is worth... what? I had my van repainted after an accident... aside from insurance work, I had them do some additional work... very high quality work, they blended the new vs old paint supurbly... my out of pocket costs for what they did were a few hundred dollars. This wasn't Macco... but it was a dealership and a professional painter, someone who paintes cars 40 hours a week every week for a living!!!! Not a body shop guy who will be painting my car, in his spare time over 3 months and then saying that wasn't enough time and there was no money to be made from my job... and that body guy wants to charge me $10 freakin K!

THAT IS ABSOLUTE AND TOTAL BS!!!!!!!!! And i don't want to hear that the guy who works at the dealership paint shop is a hack... compared to what the "other" body shop painter is....

It comes down to skill and pride in their work....

Now, let me state the ground rules here....

Provided your car is pretty clean and you pull most of the trim, etc... yourself.... you should be able to get a high quality paint job for way under 5k... I am talkning total paint.... engine compartment, undercarriage, etc....

Seriously.... unless you are getting some crazy outlandish paint.... you are truely being hosed if you think "paint & supplies" for a general car run upwards of $2k.... again... if your car is clean and you pull the body chrome, ss, etc... even the engine.... You are not spending 2k in paint supplies unles you are buying a special paint or your car really needed a LOT of work.

The only thing painters have on everybody is that they have the shop, the space and the materials to do the job.... I am so very sorry for putting it this way.... to me... a painter wanting over 5 k for a good job is like the union broom pusher sweeping the floor at the plant thinking he should get paid the same rate as a machinist.. or anything over minimum wage + union membership, which equates to about 9-10 bucks an hour....

That is a HUGE problem with Americans... they have a huge overinflated sense of self worth. As a chemist in the plant I work at, there are union guys who make more than me with LITTLE to no overtime... and I think I am paid very well.

I agree with jimjim.... there is a stigma to owning an antique car and people thnk a more expensive paint job is better... typically the more pricey, the better, yes.... but what is the value anyway? It seems to me people are blind here... materials are NOT $2k... that is a HUGE mark up. put it in persepctive.... How much is your car actually worth anyway? My 40, at best will be worth what? 16-20k once fully restored...? You can think again if I am going to apy 8k on a paint job so it can compete....

I just don't know where to go from here??????
Yes, you get what you pay for... the problem is, there is some unspoken belief that a quality car paint job has ot be expensive???? just like in the chrome business.... the real proof of a paint job comes in the prep work.... that doesn't mean anyone can do the painting or operate a chrome line... but it is, after all a very simple process. It takes some skill, yes... and some tools, yes.... but the materials involved (chemicals for chrome or paint for the car) are really the cheaper part of the deal.

Now lets look at labor... again, a skilled labor thing.... yes, but it isn't rocket science. It is knowing how to work the equipment correctly and a lot of physical labor.

If I walk into a paint shop and have them look at one of my cars to paint and tell them, I will deliver the car, stripped and prepped.... your costs should be minimal, even if it is just stripped.

It is a skilled labor, yes, I won't argue that, but I am very tired of people acting like it is some prized and unique skill that you have to pay through the nose for. In essence, what the painter or the plater have over you is the materials and or capability to something or provide a service you cannot do yourself....

I don't have a deep fryer at home..... does that mean I should be paying $20 for a basket of fries? The value attached to painting a car or doing chrome work is abcolutely insane.... even a good job...

The local chrome shop charges a HUGE amount of money and pays their employees crap.... what makes a good chrome job? The sanding.... who does the sanding? regular, every day Joe's like you and I. There is nothing special to it. If you are about what you do and take pride in your work, you will have a nice quality finished part.

The same for painting... a compressor and the paint gun can put you back a bit, but a professional shop has already made their money back many fold on them... then comes the prep work... as a novice black smith even I can make sure my stuff is prepped well... I can easily instruct a regular guy to do the sanding work, etc.... The paint gun takes a little time to master for sure... at least it took me a while... but it isn't impossible.... and sure as hell isn't worth $30 an hour!!!!! Even at $30/hour.... 100 hours is still only $3k!!! plus materials... put this into persepctoive folks..... even *IF* it were 2k in supplies and $30 an hour... that is still lonly $5k...

It is all relative though... it isn't like anyone here is going to be changed by my rant... and I know I probably alienated a lot of you, I am sorry.... but it just really irkes me when people attach such fictisious pricing to something... Painters and chromers charge a huge amount because traditionally.. only people with some wealth are in this hobby.. which means prices are and get inflated accordingly.... The cost is definitely NOT worth the final project....

Consider this... you can get a brand new vehicle for what some painters want to charge? They charge what they do because they can... and people will pay it.... that is the end of it.

[sweetolbob]

Guys, it doesn't have to be so expensive! Hot Rodders are discoverring that quality paint doesn't have to cost as much as the local stores sell it for, and for drivers, home shop paint jobs, low cost paints can be a real money saver. I've used paints from www.paintforcars.com for several driver type home paint jobs, and it is a quality paint at a bargain price. About 1/3 of the local paint stores cost. Eastwood has several paint products, and lot's of guys are shooting Summit's paint products. There are a few other online sellers as well.

What you miss with these are custom colors mixing. They only stock a limited supply of colors, but the material is the same quality stuff you pay big bucks for elsewhere. For example, you can buy a kit, consisting of a gallon of color, a gallon of clear, 2 quarts of reducer, and the catylist for it all, for less than $200, in a base coat/clear coat urethane. And, they throw in sticks and filters too.

I'd never suggest using this stuff on a show car, but for a driver... you just can't beat these prices for good quality paint locally, no matter how hard you try. UV concerns? Do you store the car inside? Then stop worrying, you will never have a problem, even if UV protection is not up to snuff (which it actually is, anyway).

As I said, I've used it on several cars, and have zero complaints with it. Even did my motorhome in it, my model A in it, and a few others, and am super happy with the results. Use this and an HVLP gun, and overspray is minimal, so the paint booth requirements won't kill you. If you want a super smooth surface, just color sand and polish it out.

Just remember, prep is 90% of a paint job!

PS There are also pearls and metalics available for cheap online, and they are lot's of fun to play with!

I'll add a quick input to this idea. I purchased two gallons of Acrylic Enamel w/catalyst from TCP Global a while back and have sprayed it in my engine compartment on the 74 Avanti. I can't speak to longevity nor surface quality after buffing but this stuff lays down like Dupont Centaur did in the past and has a high sheen/low orange peel surface right after spraying.

I'm a freakin' amateur painter as I've said in the past but so far this stuff has promise.

I'll know more in a month or so when I wheel it out but so far the price/quality combo shows great promise.

Bob

[Corley]

I suppose in the final analysis, most guys on this forum either; a) can't, b) don't want to, c) are afriad to, d) or are incapable of applying paint, for various reasons. They wind up paying at the same rate as the rare Corvette or Lambo guys pay to get their paint laid down. For myself, I need to do it myself, and I mean almost everything on the car, paint included, to have the most fun with it. Others, get their jollies from buying/showing the car. Still others are in between. My cars are not show cars, but they are presentable drivers, and that's what I do with them. There is room for all of us in this hobby, but you show'ers are running the cost up for all of us do it yourselfers! (Said with tung in cheek.)

By the way, do you think that paint shop is paying the same price you will pay for materials at the local paint store? Not on your life, the discount to the trades is really deep. So when they quote you $1k-$2k for materials, cut it in half, and you will be closer to the shops true cost. I've never done a paint job yet where there are not enough left overs to do 1/4 of another car, and a lot of the materials apply to the next job, so cut it even further. So, the materials costs really are 2nd to the prep work involved. If a shop can keep the worker bees busy all the time, and not have dead time, that is basically free labor. Think about that... How much actual labor cost do they have on a side job like that?

And then there is this caution if you select the wrong shop: "Oh, John said he was done with that fender, sorry for the ripple." "I forgot I needed to work that hood a tad bit more before shooting it." "Sorry, that wrench that Ed threw only did a tiny bit of damage." "Falling parts hit it." "It came in without that trim." "Are you sure it had a radio in it when you dropped it off?" "For another $1k we can color sand and polish, you only paid to have the paint applied." Just some of the things you may hear...

TCP Global has an excellent reputation for quality paints at decent pricing, Summit and Paint for Cars are a bit cheaper, with simliar materials. And think about it, todays catalyzed paints are so superior to those used by Studebaker back when, as to make it all a moot point. (I just wish I could buy the old Imron at a cheap price, that stuff was the best ever!)

One thing to watch for: After shooting the color on the car, they need to get the clear on the same day. Why? You want a chemical bond, not just a mechanical bond between color and clear. If the color cures completely, you won't get a chemical bond. If you only have a mechanical bond, the clear will eventually peal away, and look scabby, as you often see on older cars. If you have a chemical bond, there is less likelyhood of that happening. Follow the directions, but normally there is a prescribed time you can wait to shoot the clear, or you have to resand the color before shooting the clear. You really don't want that, because you loose the chemical bond in that case. Just don't let them wait several days if you can avoid it. Once you start shooting paint, you should finish the job without taking on another project in between color and clear.

All of the above is JMHO, and to be honest, I was wrong about something just last year! (and sorry if I offended anyone!)

[jimmijim8]

[/QUOTE]

[jackb]

.....I use this example as an obvious over expected sense of self-worth: a 12 year old asks if he can cut my grass here at my home. OK..I'm near 60, in good health, and know the flat 9000 sq. ft that needs cutting. I can do the complete job, including minimal edging in about 1+ hours. I ask the kid what he wants for the job : $35. he says with my mower. OK..he's a bit ambitious, wants to work, can't get a legal job that now pays at $8.00 per hour ...and he wants $30. an hour...? Highly specialized skill or over expected self worth ???

[new2drive]

Once again, I do want to apologize for offending people. I know that I did.
I mentioned I am a chemist... I also worked scrubbing bathrooms for a living too. I am 42, 43 this year... I am simply amazed at how much has changed since I was young.... I used to haul my lawn mower around my neighborhood for $3-5 bucks per lawn in the early 80's.. and these weren't small either. My son does our lawn... same size and thinks it is worth $25... maybe it is... candy bars were only 25 cents wehn I was a kid too....

Sorry for the rant. I do appreciate good quality work and a job well done, but for the love of all things.....
Put a fair price on it.... Skilled labor isn't exactly cheap, but in no world I live in will I accept such outrageous prices!!! I keep hearing "but look at the prep work that goes into it!".... (I got 3 phone calls within 20 mins of my post form other members!)... I have considered that.... and I have done the work myself.... to a very high quality... believe me... it isn't worht that kind of money... you are getting hosed by what has becoem the "industry standard"...

Think on this....
You have a newer car.. I say newer because if I said brand new car that needed paint work.. you are getting hit wiht the same thing as an antique collector...

You take your 2009 XYZ to a body shop to get painted.... do you think you will be charged $10k for the work? I think not.... so what really is the difference?