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Thread: Price Of A Paint Job On A Hawk

  1. #1
    President Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Price Of A Paint Job On A Hawk

    I stopped by a local paint & body shop today for an estimate on a paint job for the 63GT. This shop reportedly does excellent work, and is highly recommended by local classic & street rod folks. They looked the car over closely, and said they could do anything I wanted, but it would be in their shop 2-3 months. They mainly do insurance work, "though we like to keep a project like this in our shop, but only one at a time".

    If I remove the old paint (take it down to the metal), all chrome, stainless, and misc other stuff (gravel shield, rear bumper valences, side grills, door panels, etc.), they will do the bodywork & paint job for $4500-$5000. I would then reassemble the car. They will include all materials, and use PPG two-stage paint, and epoxy primer. The variable is the amount of body work required which, of course, is difficult to determine till taken down to the metal.

    If I wanted them to do everything, including the engine bay, I am sure it would be closer to $10,000, since labor is the main expense.

    Nothing is cheap anymore, and I believe this to be a fair price. Any opinions?
    Last edited by JoeHall; 05-23-2013 at 03:53 PM.

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    Silver Hawk Member jclary's Avatar
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    No, No, No!...It's not so much the price as the attitude and terms. They may be great folks and have terriffic skills, but at that price, the car deserves first rate attention. A body shop concentrating on fender benders while kicking someone's beloved classic over to a corner and occasionally working on it between "real jobs"...is not where I want my car. The everyday ordinary vintage Fords and Chevys might be one thing, but pilfered and misplaced Studebaker bits and pieces can be harder to replace by those not connected to to the brand. Who needs to risk that kind of hassle.

    All projects have what I call "project inertia" and once begun, need to keep moving toward completion. Regardless of good intentions...projects done in bits, fits, starts and stops seem to either stall or suffer in quality. An "as we can get to it" contract is fraught with danger.

    Just my opinion.


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    President Member 63 R2 Hawk's Avatar
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    It sounds about right in today's world. Few collision shops will do "paint complete" jobs any more. They make their money doing R&R of panels and very little metal repair is done. Collision guys make their money by beating flat rate. They won't pick up a spray gun for less than $800. Paint cost is incredibly expensive these days. Make sure they are OK with you stripping the old finish and be prepared for some bondo surprises.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jclary View Post
    No, No, No!...It's not so much the price as the attitude and terms. They may be great folks and have terriffic skills, but at that price, the car deserves first rate attention. A body shop concentrating on fender benders while kicking someone's beloved classic over to a corner and occasionally working on it between "real jobs"...is not where I want my car. The everyday ordinary vintage Fords and Chevys might be one thing, but pilfered and misplaced Studebaker bits and pieces can be harder to replace by those not connected to to the brand. Who needs to risk that kind of hassle.

    All projects have what I call "project inertia" and once begun, need to keep moving toward completion. Regardless of good intentions...projects done in bits, fits, starts and stops seem to either stall or suffer in quality. An "as we can get to it" contract is fraught with danger.

    Just my opinion.



    As owner/ operator of a body shop myself, I have to disagree with you. Unless there is a restoration shop in your area, most body shops have to make "insurance work" their priority otherwise the bills don't get paid. As owner and collector of more than one classic car, I would say that most people can manage to wait 2 to 3 months for a quality paint job whereas a crashed daily driver needs to be repaired and back on the road as soon as possible.

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    And I bet at that, they are not making money if they forgo any insurance work to take the time to do the job.
    Collision-Body shops are a world apart from an actual Restoration shop.
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    Speedster Member 57transtar guy's Avatar
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    My 67 Mustang was done to show quality and it took 3 months.

    My Studebaker truck was not done to show quality but down to the frame and engine compartment as well as interior and took 1 month.

    The mustang cost $8k and the stude $2k.

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    President Member ddub's Avatar
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    If these guys are recommended by locals with cars you have seen I'd go for it. I'm sure you can do your part.
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    President Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57transtar guy View Post
    My 67 Mustang was done to show quality and it took 3 months.

    My Studebaker truck was not done to show quality but down to the frame and engine compartment as well as interior and took 1 month.

    The mustang cost $8k and the stude $2k.
    Thanks,
    Where, and in what year(s) was the work done? In other words, how long ago?

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    Silver Hawk Member jclary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pushrod63 View Post
    As owner/ operator of a body shop myself, I have to disagree with you. Unless there is a restoration shop in your area, most body shops have to make "insurance work" their priority otherwise the bills don't get paid. As owner and collector of more than one classic car, I would say that most people can manage to wait 2 to 3 months for a quality paint job whereas a crashed daily driver needs to be repaired and back on the road as soon as possible.
    Hey...as usual...there's always more sides to the story than we can hack out on a key board in a few minutes of visiting the forum. Some of my best friends are body shop owners/operators/artists. Just so you'll know I can take my lumps...it took me SIX YEARS in fits, stops, and starts to restore the coupe in my signature pic.(True confession moment) My caution was just that...and if Joe does his homework up front, he might have the best situation possible. However, not long ago, I know of one of our own members who became entangled in one of these open ended situations that got so bad that guns were pointed.

    I attempt to do as much work myself as I can. I also try to be very respectful and humble when I drag one of my relics to a hard working business to bail me out when I'm in over my head. Few folks running a business have the time or share the passion for our old cars as we do. In Joe's situation, he may have stumbled on one of those shops run by an individual who shares the enthusiasm with the rest of us and sees the occasional classic as a enjoyable challenge and way to stay connected with his passion. In this way he is able to show off his capability, hone his skills, and advertise his business at the same time. If it turns out this way...everybody wins!
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    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jclary View Post
    It's not so much the price as the attitude and terms.
    Exactly!!! As a job like this will be a long-term project, get everything in writing. Don't be afraid to make progress payments on a regular basis for the work being done and about to be done. (If its a reputable shop with good testimony by the local car club fraternity, you should have confidence in them.) And these progress payments also give you great reason to see your car on a regular basis. Another good idea is to have as little as possible on the car which has to be removed prior to refinishing, including bumpers, trim, etc. It is far safer in your own home, and cleaning it gives YOU something to do while THEY do the painting. As one body man in our chapter told me, "The more you do, and the less we do in the bodyshop, the less it costs you in the end."

    Craig

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    President Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    They had a late 1960s Chevy convertible in the shop today, and said it should be coming out in a month or so. The scheduler is a 75 year old guy, who seems healthy as a horse. He has me scheduled to drop the car off right after the 4th of July weekend.

    They seemed easy to work with, and mainly just asked what I wanted and how I wanted to coordinate things. They had no problem with me removing the old paint, and trim. Matter of fact, they reminded me to take the paint off the door jams too, since its gonna be painted a different color than the current red. I am thinking 1963 silver mist. It has red interior, which outta match the silver paint nicely.

    Y'all bring up some good points, and I think I am gonna push for something on paper that says NOT LONGER THAN 3 months.

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    President Member Corvanti's Avatar
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    i tend to agree with Mr.Clary's earlier post. however, if the down time for the paint is when the GT would be normally down for wintertime, etc. - maybe.

    is the GT going to be a "judged concourse type", a daily or occasional driver?

    i'd still want to research other shops in your region, and get at least 3 to 5 estimates before pulling the trigger.
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    President Member Scott's Avatar
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    I'm thinking about getting a can of paint and a roller. I've seen some good results and I'll never? be able to spend $1000 or more on a paint job. Geez - I'm just trying get tires on the thing.

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    Golden Hawk Member JDP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvanti View Post
    i tend to agree with Mr.Clary's earlier post. however, if the down time for the paint is when the GT would be normally down for wintertime, etc. - maybe.

    is the GT going to be a "judged concourse type", a daily or occasional driver?

    i'd still want to research other shops in your region, and get at least 3 to 5 estimates before pulling the trigger.

    The owner of Sid, my old 399 point GT paid 11K about 7 years ago for show paint and it showed.

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    President Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvanti View Post
    i tend to agree with Mr.Clary's earlier post. however, if the down time for the paint is when the GT would be normally down for wintertime, etc. - maybe.

    is the GT going to be a "judged concourse type", a daily or occasional driver?

    i'd still want to research other shops in your region, and get at least 3 to 5 estimates before pulling the trigger.
    I agree about getting some more estimates.

    Its only a GT, and will always be a driver, as far as I am concerned. So not looking for a show car level paint job, just a nice driver.

    If I was gonna spend big dollars on a paint job, it would be on the 56J, but its a driver too.

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    Speedster Member E. Davis's Avatar
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    Getting estimates helps to establish a base or average price but you surely don't want a low bid paint job so going to a known reputable paint shop will probably produce a much happier result. Up here in the frozen north I had an estimate of 10 grand for a paint job on my Hawk provided it was the same color which is presently on it. They also wouldn't take any responsibility for damage to the trim during removal and because some is pot metal and the windshield belt moulding is very difficult to remove they suggested masking instead of removal. So there you have it. 10 grand don't buy much anymore in the auto world so it sounds like the deal you're getting is probably as good as you will do.

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    President Member StudeMichael's Avatar
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    $4,500.00 to $5,000.00 I could live with if they do excellent work but $10,000.00 to include the engine bay which is necessary for the job to look decent is a big jump.


    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHall View Post
    I stopped by a local paint & body shop today for an estimate on a paint job for the 63GT. This shop reportedly does excellent work, and is highly recommended by local classic & street rod folks. They looked the car over closely, and said they could do anything I wanted, but it would be in their shop 2-3 months. They mainly do insurance work, "though we like to keep a project like this in our shop, but only one at a time".

    If I remove the old paint (take it down to the metal), all chrome, stainless, and misc other stuff (gravel shield, rear bumper valences, side grills, door panels, etc.), they will do the bodywork & paint job for $4500-$5000. I would then reassemble the car. They will include all materials, and use PPG two-stage paint, and epoxy primer. The variable is the amount of body work required which, of course, is difficult to determine till taken down to the metal.

    If I wanted them to do everything, including the engine bay, I am sure it would be closer to $10,000, since labor is the main expense.

    Nothing is cheap anymore, and I believe this to be a fair price. Any opinions?

  18. #18
    Golden Hawk Member rockne10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHall View Post
    ... push for something on paper that says NOT LONGER THAN 3 months.
    A firm deadline could be a killer; use instead an expressed goal like driving in the Labor Day parade. Also, stopping in every week or two to "pay for the progress" will assure them that you expect to see progress. I spend a lot of time in my friend's body shop and can tell you, long-term projects remain unattended if the owner isn't interested enough to at least feign interest.

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    Speedster Member stude-sled's Avatar
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    I work at a body shop and having a 3 month deadline could be a problem. If the shop gets real busy with insurance work your car WILL be pushed back on their schedule. Instead of a deadline offer a cash bonus for a set date. If you impose a deadline the quality can suffer if time is running close.

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    Well mine started out as a $6000 job and I ended up paying about $9000 but it was appropriate as - as we went I was asked if I wanted certain panels repaired. Many hours were spent in the trunk lid, drip rails, door hinge areas, straightening the hood, fender alignment and they worked quick - I wasnt ready for the car when it was finished!!
    I'd say that's a good price these days. Just price the cost for sand paper and supplies. They do one car like this at a time while they work on dozens of collisions.
    On the contrary my 11 year old Mini Cooper they are changing the color from Yellow to white and red and that will only cost about $2000. They are totally different jobs.

    Oh, I should mention it was their first time to apply something like that strip which goes along the fin. That was tough, lots of discussion but it turned out perfect.. These guys like what they do. Now if I was in Texas and they were a bunch of illegal aliens then I'm not paying more than $4500. Well I'd probably not be going there in the first place. Choose the professional. Ask around your local street rodder groups to see who they trust. Don't use a shop which they can't even sweep the floor or only one guy speaks English.
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    My money would be on allen barth he is more than qualified to do topw notch work at reasonable prices he is just finishing up a ground up restoration on my 1956 golden hawk and its awsome his number is 509 253- 4732 he is absolutely a studebaker man and even has a studebaker museum great work and a great guy

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    Speedster Member thunderations's Avatar
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    I'm surprised that someone hasn't coughed up a lung at a 3-5 thousand dollar paint job. Many have never had a decent paint job done on a car...Maco doesn't count. Just the cost of materials is close to 2 thousand, [perhaps more according to color and manufacturer], if you consider primers, sealers, base coats and clears, plus the needed activators, thinners and hardeners. The metal prep, fillers, sand paper, masking supplies and misc. supplies are another factor. Once painted it needs to be color sanded and buffed, which is a 2 or 3 part process, so you have more sandpaper, compounds and pads. I once quoted a price for paint and bodywork on a car and the owner nearly fainted. I gave him the option to purchase the materials himself, since he thought I was making a huge profit on materials, and I would provide labor only. With that done we both set about doing our jobs. When he came back to the shop with the first part of the supplies, he was hyperventilating. He had just spent over $1500 and didn't have the clear and components for it yet. I then reminded him that he needed masking and buffing supplies too. Bottom line is he spent more by purchasing the items himself, but he learned a valuable lesson for the future. Having a production shop doing the car is probably good for both parties. They have work when insurance jobs are slow and you have a shop that must meet insurance companies high standards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stude-sled View Post
    I work at a body shop and having a 3 month deadline could be a problem. If the shop gets real busy with insurance work your car WILL be pushed back on their schedule. Instead of a deadline offer a cash bonus for a set date. If you impose a deadline the quality can suffer if time is running close.
    Joe

    I'm going to agree with the above comments. I think you need to just get a promise from the owner and then keep tabs on the work, speed kills in this endeavor.


    As far as the price, considering the price of materials and labor, I think this an excellent price. The problem today is no matter where you take the car, possibly with the exception of a high end restoration shop, the results will be a crap shoot from a lot of the posts on here. I like the idea of it being finished locally so you can keep tabs on the project and be on top of potential trouble.

    Stripping everything off yourself and storing it relieves any problems with the shop losing them. If the owners of other cars handled the same way are happy then you should be too.

    Again on price, as I'm arriving near the final paint on my 74 Avanti, If you asked me to do what I've done on the Avanti for $4500 to your car, I'd quickly tell you HELL NO!!! And I'm a freaking amateur.

    I think it's sounds like a reasonable price and a reasonable approach.

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    President Member swvalcon's Avatar
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    Joe That doesn't sound like to bad of a price. They will have 1500-2000 just in repair supplies if they do it right. So 5000-2000 leaves $ 3000 to do the work and I would think their labor rate has to be $60-75 per hr. Thats in the range of 50hrs. I wouldn't think that would leave time to color sand and buff which is something you would want done. To do a nice job on a fairly clean GT hawk 200-300 hrs should be about what it takes, plus repair supply costs. THats drive it in and drive it back out them doing all the work.

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    President Member Swifster's Avatar
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    When it come to a paint job, you get what you pay for. I'm just curious; what's a driver quality paint job? A 20-footer?

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    Well, when you set a deadline, the question would be: "Do you want it right? or Right now? The big thing is, Once stripped down to bare metal, what will you find? more rust? more filler? IF you use paint stripper, the plastic filler MUST be replaced! as you'll never get the stripper out of the filler. As far as paint goes, when I painted my Avanti, the material alone were in the $1500 range.
    Remember, a shop is in business to make a profit, no profit, they will not be around long! On a restoration type project, set 'goals" and be reasonable! I worked in a restoration shop back in the late 70's, we charged $12.00 per hour plus materials, (yeah I just dated myself) But, we did metal finishing and lead work. A restoration shop should probably be in the $60 -$75 an hour range, and should charge time and materials.
    But again, since this shop is highly recommended, and you've seen his work, and YOU think it's a fair price, go for it.

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    President Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StudeMichael View Post
    $4,500.00 to $5,000.00 I could live with if they do excellent work but $10,000.00 to include the engine bay which is necessary for the job to look decent is a big jump.
    I was saying, if they did all the labor I am doing (described above), and included the engine compartment and other "fine points" it would be closer to $10,000. I am gonna allow myself a month of spare time to do my part in getting it ready to drop off. I have done the same prep work on several other Hawks, and it takes a good 40-50 hours. Add an additional 50+ hours if I remove the fenders & doors, and do the stuff nobody can see (which I like to do).
    Last edited by JoeHall; 05-24-2013 at 10:03 AM.

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    President Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swvalcon View Post
    Joe That doesn't sound like to bad of a price. They will have 1500-2000 just in repair supplies if they do it right. So 5000-2000 leaves $ 3000 to do the work and I would think their labor rate has to be $60-75 per hr. Thats in the range of 50hrs. I wouldn't think that would leave time to color sand and buff which is something you would want done. To do a nice job on a fairly clean GT hawk 200-300 hrs should be about what it takes, plus repair supply costs. THats drive it in and drive it back out them doing all the work.
    Steve,
    I just wish I lived closer than 800 miles from you. I'd definitely be trying to get the GT in line as your next project.
    Thanks,
    Joe

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    Silver Hawk Member jclary's Avatar
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    Great thread Joe. By the responses, it demonstrates the importance of the topic to all. Every car has paint. There are many ways to get it done. Sooner or later...the quality of the work will reveal itself. It is a discussion we will need to have for as long as we have the hobby.
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    It is remarkable that some folks that have never painted a car by themselves to at least factory standards. Well. bear this in mind to start. A paint job and a paint job with body work are two different animals. Acceptable material by most peoples standards can be had from just bout any auto paint supplier for 1000.00 to include sandpaper, primer, base, and clear. I paid 700.00 a couple years ago for blue mist metallic. Red and some colors might be higher. I had a couple guys both spend no more than 40 hrs. each on refinishing to include taking off the bumpers and all trim. They wanted 2000. Ok, got the car back within 2 weeks and wasn't complety satisfied because of orange peel in the clear. They wet sanded it a bit more and rebuffed. Ok by me. Lot's of competent painters out there that don't mind making 1000. for 40 hrs work. How many folks here grossing 4000. per month here?
    Anything worth doing deserves your best shot. Do it right the first time. When you're done you will know it. { I'm just the guy who thinks he knows everything, my buddy is the guy who knows everything.} cheers jimmijim*****SDC***** member

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    Golden Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmijim8 View Post
    It is remarkable that some folks that have never painted a car by themselves to at least factory standards. Well. bear this in mind to start. A paint job and a paint job with body work are two different animals. Acceptable material by most peoples standards can be had from just bout any auto paint supplier for 1000.00 to include sandpaper, primer, base, and clear. I paid 700.00 a couple years ago for blue mist metallic. Red and some colors might be higher. I had a couple guys both spend no more than 40 hrs. each on refinishing to include taking off the bumpers and all trim. They wanted 2000. Ok, got the car back within 2 weeks and wasn't complety satisfied because of orange peel in the clear. They wet sanded it a bit more and rebuffed. Ok by me. Lot's of competent painters out there that don't mind making 1000. for 40 hrs work. How many folks here grossing 4000. per month here?
    To achieve that better-than-factory paint job, one also needs the proper facility to do it in and necessary respratory equipment. I know some do it in thier own garage by sealing all the cracks, using fans to extract the fumes, with some filters on the air inlet on the opposite wall. That may work for the older solvent-based paints, but these new two-part paints, one truly needs a proper downdraft spray booth, and the resperatory equipment rated for use with isocyanates. The mist created by the paint spray must be effectively removed as it does not dry in the air, and will only settle back onto the paintwork with disappointing results. This is not something for a home garage, and the ventilation system costs plenty to do it properly. It would be very impractical to do this if one only plans on using it once or twice every five years.

    Craig

  32. #32
    Silver Hawk Member jclary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmijim8 View Post
    It is remarkable that some folks that have never painted a car by themselves to at least factory standards.
    Just to toy with the topic...FACTORY STANDARD...is not always a very lofty goal!

    One needs to look no further than local highway traffic or parking lot to see some rather expensive late model vehicles with premature paint failure to see that manufacturers are probably the greatest practitioners of "corner cutting" on paint jobs.
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    I've seen some MAACO'S look as good as a 6 grander. I'll bet some folks here wouldn't be caught dead in a Dollar General even if they were shopping for flowers for their own funeral. Go ahead, propogate the myth that a show car ain't showy enough until it's owner has had 9 thousand bucks taken in trade for results that can be had for much much less. cheers, a usta-be body and paint guy.
    Anything worth doing deserves your best shot. Do it right the first time. When you're done you will know it. { I'm just the guy who thinks he knows everything, my buddy is the guy who knows everything.} cheers jimmijim*****SDC***** member

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    ....good thread...I just bought 7 - 12oz. cans of Sherwin Williams "Antique White" for my 62' wagon. I'm going to spray the engine bay before engine install, then have a paint camera make up the formula for a Maaco cheapo cover....Specials around here are sometimes $500-700. Since I already have $2500. into a car that will never be worth $5000. the math adds up for me...

  35. #35
    Speedster Member Studeous's Avatar
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    To get a run in the door jam, like some originals, might cost extra on the 9k paint. I'm sure Maaco would throw that in for free.
    RB
    My 1st car. "A TRANSTAR"
    53 Champion Starlight
    53-55 Starliner

    Somewhere between Culture and Agriculture
    in the Geographic center of Tennessee

  36. #36
    Speedster Member thunderations's Avatar
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    Just a footnote here..........the best materials and painter can't correct a dent or wave left in the body, but an average paint job over correct bodywork will still look good. Correct panel alignments are critical or the door, trunk and hood chips will ruin the best paint job. The hours spent before the painting are where the labor costs comes in. Do-it-yourselfers can use water based products and achieve great results without a booth or major respiratory equipment, just a clean, ventilated area. Beware that many metallic paints will "lay out" different if parts are painted separate, not hanging on the car when painted. You don't want the door to not match the fender or quarter. Some paints are more translucent then others and require multiple coats to achieve the correct color and may look blotchy if not enough coats are applied or if they are applied incorrectly. Lots of steps and conditions to get a nice paint job. Patience is probably one of the greatest assets you can have when it comes to bodywork and painting.
    1966 Daytona (The First One)
    1963 Daytona 2 Dr Hardtop
    1950 Champion Convertible
    (2) 1950 Champion Starlight Coupes
    1950 Champion 4Dr

  37. #37
    President Member JoeHall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jclary View Post
    Just to toy with the topic...FACTORY STANDARD...is not always a very lofty goal!

    One needs to look no further than local highway traffic or parking lot to see some rather expensive late model vehicles with premature paint failure to see that manufacturers are probably the greatest practitioners of "corner cutting" on paint jobs.
    Good point. I understand the quality of the clear coat is very important, and the cheaper stuff is prone to clouding & lifting in a few years. I may even provide & deliver them the top shelf stuff, just to be sure they don't cut any corners there.

  38. #38
    President Member Corley's Avatar
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    Guys, it doesn't have to be so expensive! Hot Rodders are discoverring that quality paint doesn't have to cost as much as the local stores sell it for, and for drivers, home shop paint jobs, low cost paints can be a real money saver. I've used paints from www.paintforcars.com for several driver type home paint jobs, and it is a quality paint at a bargain price. About 1/3 of the local paint stores cost. Eastwood has several paint products, and lot's of guys are shooting Summit's paint products. There are a few other online sellers as well.

    What you miss with these are custom colors mixing. They only stock a limited supply of colors, but the material is the same quality stuff you pay big bucks for elsewhere. For example, you can buy a kit, consisting of a gallon of color, a gallon of clear, 2 quarts of reducer, and the catylist for it all, for less than $200, in a base coat/clear coat urethane. And, they throw in sticks and filters too.

    I'd never suggest using this stuff on a show car, but for a driver... you just can't beat these prices for good quality paint locally, no matter how hard you try. UV concerns? Do you store the car inside? Then stop worrying, you will never have a problem, even if UV protection is not up to snuff (which it actually is, anyway).

    As I said, I've used it on several cars, and have zero complaints with it. Even did my motorhome in it, my model A in it, and a few others, and am super happy with the results. Use this and an HVLP gun, and overspray is minimal, so the paint booth requirements won't kill you. If you want a super smooth surface, just color sand and polish it out.

    Just remember, prep is 90% of a paint job!

    PS There are also pearls and metalics available for cheap online, and they are lot's of fun to play with!
    Corley

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHall View Post
    Good point. I understand the quality of the clear coat is very important, and the cheaper stuff is prone to clouding & lifting in a few years. I may even provide & deliver them the top shelf stuff, just to be sure they don't cut any corners there.
    Joe

    I'm beginning to question your "trust" in the project. If they are using cheap filler and/or paint then putting quality clear/paint on a cheap base is setting you up for adhesion failure in the future. Somewhere they will be putting your materials over their materials, let them use what they know works from the get-go. If they are "trust worthy" in your opinion then work with them to be sure both sides are satisfied but if I owned a shop and you were bringing in bits and pieces of the materials, I would honestly tell you to take a hike.

    How would you feel in reverse. If they are pros and you say they are, let them be pros.

    Nothing personal intended but I can put myself in their shoes too.

    Bob
    Last edited by sweetolbob; 05-24-2013 at 10:33 AM.
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  40. #40
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    I have been chomping at the bit about this thread all morning.... I want to say so much but so know I am going to offend so many people... not on purpose mind you....

    Ok, lets start with.... I have prepped cars for paint, painted them and also done a lot of chrome work... all, unfortunately BEFORE I became a collector myself.... I am a chemist and one of the things I do is paint, pricing, etc... I am sooooo in tune with prices that I even follow what the raw material costs are for dyes/colors... a lot come out of ther Soviet Union believe it or not....

    I do not want to demean any painters... you do get what you pay for, it is just very unfortunate that most painters think they are worth 10k for a paint job.... Real quick... lets put that into perspective... 10k to paint a vehicle in their SPARE time over 3 months... lets start with that.... 10k/3mo... if they paint 4 cars a year.... thats 40k per year... lets not talk taxes, operating costs, etc... for a moment... Thats $40,000 USD per year for really working what? In truth... a standard paint job does not take 40 hours x 4 x 3 = 480 hours... remember, they are doing this when they are not doing their regular work or "when they have some time"...... YES, some projects can get involved... but a typical strip and clean car with little damage to repair prior to paint does NOT take 480 hours...

    I don't know about you, but in my area... most union 40hr/week jobs will clear that in one year... but remember... the painter is NOT working 40 hour weeks for 3 months straight to paint your car......

    So a painter is worth... what? I had my van repainted after an accident... aside from insurance work, I had them do some additional work... very high quality work, they blended the new vs old paint supurbly... my out of pocket costs for what they did were a few hundred dollars. This wasn't Macco... but it was a dealership and a professional painter, someone who paintes cars 40 hours a week every week for a living!!!! Not a body shop guy who will be painting my car, in his spare time over 3 months and then saying that wasn't enough time and there was no money to be made from my job... and that body guy wants to charge me $10 freakin K!

    THAT IS ABSOLUTE AND TOTAL BS!!!!!!!!! And i don't want to hear that the guy who works at the dealership paint shop is a hack... compared to what the "other" body shop painter is....

    It comes down to skill and pride in their work....

    Now, let me state the ground rules here....

    Provided your car is pretty clean and you pull most of the trim, etc... yourself.... you should be able to get a high quality paint job for way under 5k... I am talkning total paint.... engine compartment, undercarriage, etc....

    Seriously.... unless you are getting some crazy outlandish paint.... you are truely being hosed if you think "paint & supplies" for a general car run upwards of $2k.... again... if your car is clean and you pull the body chrome, ss, etc... even the engine.... You are not spending 2k in paint supplies unles you are buying a special paint or your car really needed a LOT of work.

    The only thing painters have on everybody is that they have the shop, the space and the materials to do the job.... I am so very sorry for putting it this way.... to me... a painter wanting over 5 k for a good job is like the union broom pusher sweeping the floor at the plant thinking he should get paid the same rate as a machinist.. or anything over minimum wage + union membership, which equates to about 9-10 bucks an hour....

    That is a HUGE problem with Americans... they have a huge overinflated sense of self worth. As a chemist in the plant I work at, there are union guys who make more than me with LITTLE to no overtime... and I think I am paid very well.

    I agree with jimjim.... there is a stigma to owning an antique car and people thnk a more expensive paint job is better... typically the more pricey, the better, yes.... but what is the value anyway? It seems to me people are blind here... materials are NOT $2k... that is a HUGE mark up. put it in persepctive.... How much is your car actually worth anyway? My 40, at best will be worth what? 16-20k once fully restored...? You can think again if I am going to apy 8k on a paint job so it can compete....

    I just don't know where to go from here??????
    Yes, you get what you pay for... the problem is, there is some unspoken belief that a quality car paint job has ot be expensive???? just like in the chrome business.... the real proof of a paint job comes in the prep work.... that doesn't mean anyone can do the painting or operate a chrome line... but it is, after all a very simple process. It takes some skill, yes... and some tools, yes.... but the materials involved (chemicals for chrome or paint for the car) are really the cheaper part of the deal.

    Now lets look at labor... again, a skilled labor thing.... yes, but it isn't rocket science. It is knowing how to work the equipment correctly and a lot of physical labor.

    If I walk into a paint shop and have them look at one of my cars to paint and tell them, I will deliver the car, stripped and prepped.... your costs should be minimal, even if it is just stripped.

    It is a skilled labor, yes, I won't argue that, but I am very tired of people acting like it is some prized and unique skill that you have to pay through the nose for. In essence, what the painter or the plater have over you is the materials and or capability to something or provide a service you cannot do yourself....

    I don't have a deep fryer at home..... does that mean I should be paying $20 for a basket of fries? The value attached to painting a car or doing chrome work is abcolutely insane.... even a good job...

    The local chrome shop charges a HUGE amount of money and pays their employees crap.... what makes a good chrome job? The sanding.... who does the sanding? regular, every day Joe's like you and I. There is nothing special to it. If you are about what you do and take pride in your work, you will have a nice quality finished part.

    The same for painting... a compressor and the paint gun can put you back a bit, but a professional shop has already made their money back many fold on them... then comes the prep work... as a novice black smith even I can make sure my stuff is prepped well... I can easily instruct a regular guy to do the sanding work, etc.... The paint gun takes a little time to master for sure... at least it took me a while... but it isn't impossible.... and sure as hell isn't worth $30 an hour!!!!! Even at $30/hour.... 100 hours is still only $3k!!! plus materials... put this into persepctoive folks..... even *IF* it were 2k in supplies and $30 an hour... that is still lonly $5k...

    It is all relative though... it isn't like anyone here is going to be changed by my rant... and I know I probably alienated a lot of you, I am sorry.... but it just really irkes me when people attach such fictisious pricing to something... Painters and chromers charge a huge amount because traditionally.. only people with some wealth are in this hobby.. which means prices are and get inflated accordingly.... The cost is definitely NOT worth the final project....

    Consider this... you can get a brand new vehicle for what some painters want to charge? They charge what they do because they can... and people will pay it.... that is the end of it.
    Last edited by new2drive; 05-24-2013 at 10:40 AM. Reason: slopy spelling

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