Engine: Does this symptom indicate a starter problem?

[showbizkid]

Past couple of weeks, Barney has been exhibiting a new behavior when starting.

• When he's cold, the engine spins over normally.
• When he's been driven, parked, and turned off for a short time, the engine seems to "stick" on each compression stroke when I hit the key to re-start.
  Sounds like: "whir" pause "whir" pause "whirrVROOOM!"

Does this sound to you like perhaps a starter winding is opening up from heat soak and the field's not strong enough to spin the engine as a result? Time to take it off and get it rebuilt? Or is there something else I should look at? Battery is fairly new and tests fine.

Thanks!

[jnormanh]

Past couple of weeks, Barney has been exhibiting a new behavior when starting.

• When he's cold, the engine spins over normally.
• When he's been driven, parked, and turned off for a short time, the engine seems to "stick" on each compression stroke when I hit the key to re-start.
  Sounds like: "whir" pause "whir" pause "whirrVROOOM!"

Does this sound to you like perhaps a starter winding is opening up from heat soak and the field's not strong enough to spin the engine as a result? Time to take it off and get it rebuilt? Or is there something else I should look at? Battery is fairly new and tests fine.

Thanks!

Check your ign timing. If advanced a bit, could cause that problem.

[BobPalma]

The first thing to check is the integrity of all your major (i.e., the thick ones) battery cable connections, Clark. Be sure all nuts securing the engine and starter end of those cables are tight and clean. Heat increases resistance; if any are loose or corroded, they will resistant more current when hot than when cold.

Make sure the "engine end" of the negative cable (from the battery) is NOT under an exhaust manifold stud or bolt. If it is, the heat from operation can really increase resistance at that connection. If the engine end of the negative cable is under an exhaust manifiold bolt, remove it from that bolt and put it somewhere else, like under a water pump manifold bolt where the connection doesn't get so doggone hot while operating. BP

[alpayed]

I had a similar symptom. It turned out to be an ignition problem. The distributor cap phasing was out and when cranking the spark would jump backwards to the post behind and fire that cylinder out of sequence.
The end result was that it split the starter pinion. That is not likely to be your problem. As stated above this can also be caused by the ignition timing being too far advanced. This symptom is more likely to be a battery/connection issue or the brushes in the starter being worn. Start with the battery first it could have a dead cell or be on the way out.

[oldsalt]

That "Whir" [pause] "Whir" is very often the Bendix in the starter failing to spin on the starter armature shaft and thereby refusing to 'slide' forard and engage the flywheel ring gear. This all depends, of course, on whether or not your car uses that type of Bendix. That is a very frequent cause of "Whir - Whir". A clutch disk can and will throw off pieces of friction material and deposit it on the starter shaft where the Bendix is located. That also can gum up a starter drive and keep it from engaging. In short, the problem dose not have to be electrical and often is not.

[BobPalma]

Clark, can you define the whir? Does it sound like the starter is running at high speed, disconnected from the flywheel it is supposed to be cranking?

If so, as oldsalt rightly suggests, it is a starter drive problem and not an engine electrical problem. (This is a hazard of trying to diagnose things by remote control.) BP

[warrlaw1]

Now I want to get at my 55 to see if the ground cable is connected to a manifold stud. It's still under wraps and it's snowing. Thanks for the tip, Bob.

[showbizkid]

Thanks for all the input, guys.

I should have better explained the "whir" sound - that's the sound of the engine cranking over. The Bendix seems to be engaging properly. I'm going to start with Bob and Jeff's suggestions, and check the cable connections and timing; I was playing with the timing and had advanced it quite a bit before I found out that my spark modifier was the wrong model and replaced it.

[55 56 PREZ 4D]

If it is an electrical problem, check the connections for tightness and for cleanlyness. No grease, or rust.
Look carefully at the wire itself. A lot of times the wire is corroded inside the insulation, can't really be seen, looks good from outside but is grungy inside.
A good battery cable will have a soldered or mechanically crimped terminal with shrink tube over the terminal to wire connection.
The shrink tube should have a compound that oozes out to seal the joint.
An even better connection for the battery ground is AT THE STARTER mount bolt.

[showbizkid]

Well, I reset the timing (and idle speed) and the problem has disappeared Good call. Thanks to everyone for your help!

[Warren Webb]

If it is an electrical problem, check the connections for tightness and for cleanlyness. No grease, or rust.
An even better connection for the battery ground is AT THE STARTER mount bolt.

I like to add a thick braided ground wire from Mercedes diesel models & run them like Prez says from the starter to the frame. Seems like whenever I go to a "pick & pull" yard they are plentiful and cheap.