Brakes: Sludge in the master cylinder? - 63 Avanti

[dadondemand]

While winterizing my R1 Avanti, I found I had no brakes - pedal nearly to the floor. Checked the master cylinder, it was nearly empty except for a finger full of dark colored sludge in the bottom.

Here are my questions: 1) Where did the brake fluid go? I see no puddles or stains on the concrete garage floor, and I had brakes as recently as this summer. 2) Where did the sludge come from? That can't be good. Am I looking at a full flush of the brake lines, wheel cylinders, etc? Thanks!

[jts359]

Regular brake fluid is Hydroscopic , Meaning it absorbs water , What you are seeing is rust and dirt , I would disassemble the entire system and inspect it at least , I recently got a nice 63 Avanti and literally threw almost entire brake system away and replaced everything except the calipers and brake booster , Ed

[unclemiltie]

I would do a full flush. I would first check the master cylinder as it seems it may be leaking. If you have power brakes, the fluid could have leaked into the power unit and is hiding from detection.

[unclemiltie]

ps, if you do not currently have Silicone fluid, I would recommend converting to it if you do not regularly drive the car.BUT this will require you to replace all rubber components in addition to flushing lines.

I did this on m 67 Avanti several years back and it has been trouble free since.

[StudeRich]

Rusting Caliper Cylinders, cross over tubes, brake lines, rear wheel cylinders and master Cylinder over 49 years will do that with Dot 3 fluid containing Alcohal absorbing Water.


What I would do is:
(1) Throughly flush the system with Alcohal, before removing cylinders and Master. Blow the system dry with compressed Air. Brake Clean could also be used.

(2) Then replace with New, all 6 Wheel Cylinders and Master, cross over tubes, (3) flex hoses and possibly ALL of the brake lines if the Car was EVER in a rust belt location.

(3) Install Dot 5 Silicone Brake fluid and forget the hydraulic System for as long as you own the Car.

See this post also:
http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...-fluid-dilemma

[dadondemand]

Thanks, all. Don't know what I'd do without all the help from the forum!

[jnormanh]

If you've got that much muck in the M/C, then the entire hydraulic system is roached. Remove the M/C, wheel cyls, calipers, clean them up and see whether they are rebuildable. After you've rebuilt or replaced them, flush the brake lines with whatever fluid you are going to use, blow them out with compressed air, carefully inspect the brake hoses; replace any which are suspect, then put it all back together as clean and dry as you can make it.

Silicone brake fluid: Maybe, maybe not. I may be wrong, but I don't think any new car manufacturer uses silicone. Conventional DOT4 systems can last for many, many years. Cars which are driven often enough to get the brakes hot at least a few times a year have fewer problems than those which sit unused. That said, some (but not all, by any means) swear by silicone. Silicone may be okay, but it isn't magical. I tried it, ONCE, in a completely rebuilt system, and had repetitive small leaks. The problem with silicone leaks is that it doesn't evaporate or burn off, so one drop of silicone on a brake lining, and you are in deep doo-do. A drop of DOT4 on a brake lining will burn off. A drop of silicone is slicker than snot forever.

[David]

Rusting Caliper Cylinders, cross over tubes, brake lines, rear wheel cylinders and master Cylinder over 49 years will do that with Dot 3 fluid containing Alcohal absorbing Water.


What I would do is:

(3) Install Dot 5 Silicone Brake fluid and forget the hydraulic System for as long as you own the Car.

Installing Dot 5 brake fluid is definitely no reason to neglect your hydraulic system. If a dot 3 system is maintained properly it should last the life of the average car. 50 -60 years is not average. A complete fluid change should be done bi-annually at the very least. If your vehicle is stored in an unheated garage with gravel or dirt floor annually would be best.

[52 Ragtop]

When you buy the new brake hoses, CHECK the date codes on the hose! If there is NO date, the hoses are pre 1977. And after a long talk with one of my suppliers, he believes that hoses older than 5 years are being illegally sold! I am on my last 10 feet of hose that has the date of "05-2012" on it, next 100 feet has "07-2012" Whether you buy mine or another vendors, CHECK the dates!

Jim