Best overdrive transmission for lark with 259 v8?

[plwindish]

I had a 200R4 rebuilt and put in my 76 Avanti last year after an engine rebuild. I have been very happy with the 200R4. With the 3:31 rear end in the car, the engine rpm's at 70 mph are 2000 compared with 3000 rpm's the motor was turning with the Turbohydramatic 400 three speed automatic. The other gear ratios in the 200R4 were very similar to the 400 turbo, whereas the 700R4 has a large drop in ratios from 1st to 2nd speed.

[cultural infidel]

marking for later read. I am currently planning to swap in an OD Trans in the future and this thread is full of valuable info. I was leaning towards the 700r4 but now may look at the 200 for my 65.

[60Lark]

I installed a 700 R4 in my 56 Power Hawk (259) with shift kit (not really necessary but didn't cost much) and B&M Floor shifter, I bought the adapter plate from Frank VanDoorn (41 Frank). I have a 392 Dana 44 rear-end mated to it. I am very pleased with the results. I can cruise at 70 MPH turning 2300 RPM and get 21 MPG

The 700 R4 will take a little more abuse than the 200 R4

[michelle]

All late Stude automatics were three-speed.

Assuming a 195/70-15" tire turning 810 rev/mile, usually about 2700 RPMs. With solid lifters, engine driven fan and a floor board which resembles Swiss cheese, Studes let a lot more engine noise into the passenger compartment than do modern cars. Thus, to some drivers, it sounds like the engine is turning faster than it really is.

Dunno. Never had a torque converter fail all of a sudden. What are the symptoms which cause you to suspect the torque converter?

jack vines

Thanks Jack! We are thinking that it's the torque converter because I was driving it the other day and when I tried to go more than 35 MPH there was a sort of "growling" noise (my hubby's description, hee hee) coming from the front end of the trans. and over that speed, also there's a loss of power and some abnormal vibration. In talking to a couple of old car guru's around here, it's been the consensus that the torque converter is bad. It was just happening off and on while driving, but by the time I got home, the sound was constant, even in park. Do you think it could be something other than the torque converter?

Thanks again for your help!

Michelle

[HUDSONBROTHER1]

Michelle,if the converter is bad it can cause a noise and can cause slugish acceleration.You could get the converter rebuilt or find someone who has a good used one and change it out.If you pull the trans chech the flex plate the converter for cracks where it bolts to the crankshaft.You can get these new for arond 30 to 40 dollar range. I hope this info helps.

[michelle]

Michelle,if the converter is bad it can cause a noise and can cause slugish acceleration.You could get the converter rebuilt or find someone who has a good used one and change it out.If you pull the trans chech the flex plate the converter for cracks where it bolts to the crankshaft.You can get these new for arond 30 to 40 dollar range. I hope this info helps.

Thanks hudsonbrother1! I think we're going to pull the trans in the next couple of days... we'll keep our fingers crossed that it's something simple like the flex plate.

Michelle

[irish]

Start with the basics, does it have the right amount of fluid? Is the linkage adjusted properly? are the front and rear bands in the transmission adjusted properly? These are borg-warner 3-speed autos, they are easy to work on and relatively inexpensive to have rebuilt. As for the overdrive, some people will disagree with this but I would NOT use an overdrive with the 3.07 R/A With the stock height tires you will run about 2700 RPM at 75 MPH (your shorter tires will make the engine run faster) This is about right for the Stude V-8. I have used an overdrive in front of a 3.31 R/A and with a headwind on the highway the car kept dropping out of overdrive to maintain my speed. Good luck to you whichever route you take.

Joe

[Warren Webb]

I agree with Irish. When was the last time the bands in the trans were adjusted? If you dont know, then its time to have it done. At the same time have the trans fluid changed. On Studes there is a provision to drain the torque converter at the same time, unlike most other transmissions today. The times I have had transmission noises has been because the fluid level was incorrect, both too low & too full, although when its too full then you get it being pumped out of the trans dipstick tube.

[michelle]

I agree with Irish. When was the last time the bands in the trans were adjusted? If you dont know, then its time to have it done. At the same time have the trans fluid changed. On Studes there is a provision to drain the torque converter at the same time, unlike most other transmissions today. The times I have had transmission noises has been because the fluid level was incorrect, both too low & too full, although when its too full then you get it being pumped out of the trans dipstick tube.

Thanks irish and warren! We did all of the adjustments that the shop manual described before I started driving it around may of this year. It was actually already "spot on" so Jim just mainly verified more than adjusted. Fluid level is also good. I'm kind of OCD about checking fluid levels on my car since I've never driven anything this old before and I'm hyper sensitive to anything weird still, hee hee. I didn't realize that you could drain the torque converter at the same time you drain the trans... I'm going to get a lot more familiar with those parts over the weekend since they are coming out of the car today.

Hmmmm, after reading all of the info on this thread, I'm kind of wondering if I even need an OD trans now... so, if we were to go on a long road trip, with the engine humming along at 2700 RPM's - would that be hard on it at all? This is all so new to me and I really want to make sure I don't ever put the Stude into a scenario that it wasn't built for and wind up with something breaking just because I was uninformed.

Thanks bunches! You guys are the best!
Michelle

[StudeRich]

Hi Michelle, 2200 to 2500 RPM would be better for fuel economy on long long trips, but your 2700 will not hurt a good engine.

Just be sure you have the ZDDPlus Oil additive in the Oil or are using Valvoline ZR1 Racing Oil in the SILVER Can or equivelent.

[michelle]

Hi Michelle, 2200 to 2500 RPM would be better for fuel economy on long long trips, but your 2700 will not hurt a good engine.

Just be sure you have the ZDDPlus Oil additive in the Oil or are using Valvoline ZR1 Racing Oil in the SILVER Can or equivelent.

Awesome! Thanks StudeRich!

[brian6373]

My '63 Lark 259 2 bbl. 3-speed maual w/ overdrive turns 2200 RPM @ 70 MPH. I don't have a problem w/power or accel. even in a headwind. The ZDP Studrich is talking about, Goes in the eng. oil. What is the shifter quadrant on your trans? I have two other Larks w/auto trans, and they are PNDLR. As far as I know this is a 2 speed trans. From what I've been told the Borg-Warner 3 speed was in later model Studebakers than a 1960, and Ford used it in the mid-60s as well. For those of us who are on a tight buget you can put in a want add on the Studebaker swap page and mabey get a good used trans for cheap. Bob Perterson in Hayward may have something. A lot of people are still in Southbend right now or returning, so it might be best to wait a little.

[PackardV8]

I have two other Larks w/auto trans, and they are PNDLR. As far as I know this is a 2 speed trans. From what I've been told the Borg-Warner 3 speed was in later model Studebakers than a 1960,

Always interesting to find a long-time multi-Stude owner who hasn't discovered there is a first gear in the three-speed Borg-Warner automatic.

The auto manufacturers of the time thought owners wanted smoothness over quickness, so they designed the transmissions to start in second gear when in D position. However, all of the B-Ws used by Stude, Ford, AMC have a low gear hiding down there when the accelerator is fully depressed from a standing start. A very few of them started in low and a few had D1 and D2, for the choice of a first gear start or second gear start.

jack vines

[shifter4]

Always interesting to find a long-time multi-Stude owner who hasn't discovered there is a first gear in the three-speed Borg-Warner automatic.

The auto manufacturers of the time thought owners wanted smoothness over quickness, so they designed the transmissions to start in second gear when in D position. However, all of the B-Ws used by Stude, Ford, AMC have a low gear hiding down there when the accelerator is fully depressed from a standing start. A very few of them started in low and a few had D1 and D2, for the choice of a first gear start or second gear start.

jack vines

When I bought my first Stude in 1962 , ( which was a '55 V8 coupe-$300. ) , I was shown by my
Ford friends that we could start in Low , shift to Drive , and go back to the low position , and it would
stay in second until we shifted into Drive again. Sort of a Powershift before its time.
This works OK , but if you do it , don't back it down in low position , because as the car slows, it will drop to first hard .
Yes , we were rude and crude , but life was good .

[55 56 PREZ 4D]

If your car doesn't have factory 1st gear start. Second gear start with a PNDLR
To get that 1st gear start you either really stand on the accelerator from a standing start,
OR manually shift into low gear, pullout, then manually shift into drive.