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Thread: Can anyone tell me the timing on a 64 hawk 259

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    Can anyone tell me the timing on a 64 hawk 259

    What is the ignition timing on a 64 259 hawk. I did a search but no one listed the exact numbers.

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    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    On the line just to the Left side of the Car (your right) from the UDC mark, right next to the IGN mark which is 4 degrees advance.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner




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    What is the ignition timing on a 64 259 hawk. I did a search but no one listed the exact numbers.
    Be sort of tough to find that, as none of the books will show a 1964 259" Hawk as having been produced. Maybe try looking for a '64 Lark 259".

    FWIW, anyone who is going to be working on a Stude needs a Shop Manual. Even the Shop Manual won't give the "exact numbers" as the front damper isn't marked in degrees, just "IGN". Remember to disconnect and plug the vacuum.

    jack vines
    Last edited by PackardV8; 01-25-2012 at 04:31 PM.
    PackardV8

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    Speedster Member K-Hawk's Avatar
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    Can you attach vacuum line to a vacuum gauge and set to highest vacuum back off a little, drive car and if runs good no pinking.... isn't that OK too. k-hawk

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    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    Yes but, you will want to know if the actual Timing is miles off, which is one of the reasons why you use a Timing Light.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner




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    Quote Originally Posted by StudeRich View Post
    Yes but, you will want to know if the actual Timing is miles off, which is one of the reasons why you use a Timing Light.
    Yeah, I would feel better knowing, and the gasoline tank will stay fuller, longer, if the centrifugal advance and vacuum advance are still working as Stanwood Sparrow intended. Sometimes, on other makes at least, they have not.

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    Speedster Member K-Hawk's Avatar
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    This was a timely post as I am replacing the intake, just waiting for a valley pan gasket. While removing intake I noticed that distributor was loose. I need to correct this. So set @ 4 degrees advance, lock distributor into place, reconnect vac line, check that timing mark is advancing to approximately 30 degrees? Is there a mark for correct advance ? at what rpm? Thanks

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    To use the vacuummethod where do you find a port thats not above the throttle plate?

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    Golden Hawk Member StudeRich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crosley8 View Post
    To use the vacuum method where do you find a port that's not above the throttle plate?
    You do not need it to be Above the throttle plate, you want it BELOW.
    There is a 3/8 Inch Pipe Plug in the Left Rear Intake Manifold runner to remove and add a Hose nipple.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner




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    Thanks for the info I meant below

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    President Member bensherb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K-Hawk View Post
    check that timing mark is advancing to approximately 30 degrees? Is there a mark for correct advance ? at what rpm? Thanks
    There is no mark from the factory. Only the UDC, (TDC on anything else) and IGN, (timing mark). You can mark it yourself if you're like me and really want to know when things are happening. Mechanical advance will be all in at 30 degrees by 1500 rpm. Vacuum advance will add another 15 degrees. Total combined advance will be about 45 degrees by 2500 rpm.
    IMG_0821a.jpgSorry I don't have a pic pic of it now. It's much more precise and degreed further around now and easier to see; probably wouldn't look much different in a pic though.

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    Is the correct timing the same for 289; I assume so.

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    The correct timing for a stock 259-289 is 4 deg btdc. There are two marks in the vibration dampener. the first mark is TDC and the second one marked ignition is the 4 degree mark. Adjusting the base timing using a vacuum gauge will guarantee that the timing will be way too far advanced. Timing lights were invented for a reason and I recommend using one to adjust the timing. A few extra degrees on the base timing won't hurt anything, but I don't recommend going any more that. Bud

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    Something to ponder -

    What is the "correct" ignition timing ?

    What the book says...or what the engine "wants" to run its best..?

    Mike

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    President Member j.byrd's Avatar
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    Mike Van Veghten..... Exactly ! My Fords of the past said set at 6 degrees, but 10 was so much better for them all...big or small block. Had one that even liked 12. Put 'er on about 25/ 2600 rpm, twist the distributor till it's sweet, lock and live happily ever after...

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    President Member wdills's Avatar
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    If I remember right my 259 wanted about 10 or 11 deg btdc to run good. When set at 4 deg it would just not take a quick opening of the throttle. You had to sneak up on any speed increase off idle.
    Wayne
    "Trying to shed my CASO ways"

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    President Member TWChamp's Avatar
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    I need to find my timing light so I can check the timing on my Studebakers. When I worked at the MoPar dealership in the late 70's the factory was setting the Dodge pickup timing at TDC. When the farmers came in for a tune up I'd set the timing at 10* BTDC. The owners would return and tell me how much better the truck ran, had more power, and got better fuel economy.

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    President Member E. Davis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j.byrd View Post
    Mike Van Veghten..... Exactly ! My Fords of the past said set at 6 degrees, but 10 was so much better for them all...big or small block. Had one that even liked 12. Put 'er on about 25/ 2600 rpm, twist the distributor till it's sweet, lock and live happily ever after...
    That's the way I have always done it. Using a timing light can be useful to find a starting point but from then on find the sweet spot and leave it alone.

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    Ceci's 62 was a puzzle. Took it to mechanic who said the marks were way off and timed it by ear. Runs great so that's where it will stay til I get bored and try to figure it out. I'm guessing the dist and wires are just all scrambled at this point. I don't think a person can install a vibration dampener incorrectly ( well ok, I'm sure it is doable but it'd take an effort.) With crappy gas you should start at 4 deg btdc and then if you are't happy go to 6. If you go too far it will "smooth out " but it will cost power

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    President Member bensherb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffry Cassel View Post
    I don't think a person can install a vibration dampener incorrectly ( well ok, I'm sure it is doable but it'd take an effort.)
    Actually on these engines it's pretty easy to install the damper wrong. Actually, to assemble it wrong. The damper on these is an assembly of several pieces that are bolted together with six bolts. The bolt pattern in the pieces is asymmetric, but it's not off by very much. If a "mechanic" assembling a damper is not paying attention and just a bit "ham fisted" it's not hard to assemble it wrong, putting the timing marks way off.

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    I'll say this one more time for the people advocating setting the timing by ear or the seat of your pants. Please read Jim Pepper's excellent article on ignition timing and Studebaker engines in the September 2014 issue of Turning Wheels. For anyone that cares to read it, it is very informative. Bud

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