Avanti Alternator

[StudeMichael]

Nobody ever pays attention to old threads, but I found a shop in Butte, Montana. It looked like a real professional outfit and they thought they could repair my Avanti alternator...until they tore it down. They found out that one of the brush holders, which were molded into the housing. He did not feel he could fix it. So, having found no "swaps" that would work, I asked him if he might be able to find something around his shop that might fit, using the Avanti alternator as a model. He will bet back to me. It is getting so that I can barely afford to keep my "fleet" of six Studebakers running at today's prices. I am thing about selling the whole lot!

Try John Myers, Jack. He should be able to rebuild your old one. Sounds like the guy at the new fangled shop who said he couldn't just didn't want to be bothered.

[jnfweber]

Warning! This is a blog. Read at your own risk!

These last six replies have been most helpful, especially from jimmjim8 and Rerun. Staack's Automotive Electric in Butte has been around a long time and is not a new fangled shop and the guy is an old guy, but not as old as me. He might have been too lazy to try to fix it, but I will look at the problem when I go through Butte Friday on the way to a round-up (300 head) out of Billings. Maybe might even be able to ride if I get there early enough Saturday morning (saddle-up at 6 am, branding and castration start around 10, barbeque at 4). No prairie oysters on the menu, just burgers, beans, salads, and desserts).

Yesterday I went to our local auto graveyard (Anaconda) and picked up (off the ground) two alternators (free), one which turned nicely and the other a little gritty, both 40 amp. The Motorcraft one looked like it might fit, so I cut off part of the bottom mounting so it would fit in the 2 inch space on my 1964 Avanti R-1 with air, but it proved to be about 1/2 inch too long and the mounting ears were too short. The measured distance from the lower mount on to the upper bracket on this Avanti is 7 inches, and not adjustable. I figured if it could fit I could modify the connections. Later found out that the brushes could be easily changed by removing an external plastic housing, but, too long. Distance from the front to the back on my other R-2 Avanti alternator is 4 inches. Problem is the connection from the water pump housing has minimal clearance in the Avanti.

Also, alternator mounts are different on R-2 Avantis are different than R-1 with air conditioning, although the alternator appears the same. I also have Dick Clement's old 1964 Cruiser (sorry Dick, I have done nothing with it and would be embarrassed to drive it to Springfield, although it would be road-worthy with new tires--I fixed the extensive oil leaks, and have new door rubber and wind lace (from Omaha meet) which shows how lazy I am. Could have gotten a great paint job here in Anaconda for $3,000 if I had removed the chrome, stainless steel, and bumpers, but again, too sore, and too lazy. It is hell to get old and arthritic.

Anyway, I will keep trying to fit a cheap non-Avanti alternator until I leave for Springfield (my son and family live there). John Meyers could bring one down for around $200 exchange. I can run the Avanti without the alternator if it stops raining here. Prospects for floods in Montana river channels are great this year. I am glad we are high and dry in town, about 100 feet above Warm Springs Creek.

We are going to France from Springfield-Branson airport on July 5, so will not worry about my fleet of Studebakers until I return. I will probably register for the meet soon, although we will stay with my son in Springfield. The last meet I drove a car to was in Long Beach, but we lived close then and my chapter (OEC) was the meet sponsor. I find that the expense and bother of making a car meet-ready is just a pain in the (wallet).

I would sell the whole collection for $60,000, and would still not have enough to buy a 70 Cuda AAR. The price of collector cars and cost of parts and services is now beyond my means.

Jack in Montana

[jnfweber]

My guy in Butte, Staak's Automotive Electric, just called and said he could build a replacement alternator using a 1 wire GM housing, for $129. This sounds just about like something I saw on ebay, for $108 plus $20 shipping. The dimensions are correct, 7 inches between holes, lower mounting assembly 2 inches wide, and case less than 4 inches long from fan/pulley. Also available in 12 V (item listed is 24 v).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200409157393&viewitem=

Jack in Montana

[jnfweber]

Avanti Alternator Replaced

I got the alternator which was built to replace the OEM Avanti 40 amp alternator, which are hard to find. It is a modified Delco 10SI 65 amp alternator built by Staak's Auto Electric shop in Butte which cost me $120. It is a one-wire job, and was an easy install. The Avanti seems to run much better with the new alternator. No telling how long I drove the Avanti (daytime only) with a non-operative alternator. The critical measurement seems to be the length from the back of the fan to the back of the casing, which cannot be more than 4.5 inches to fit. Perhaps the Delco 12SI might be a better replacement, with an enclosed fan. IThese seem to be available only as 105 amps and more. It might be possible to replace the 10SI fan/pully with one from the 12SI.

[Rerun]

Looks like a good fit, and an effective solution. However, I would make a point to cut off the two unused lugs and insulate the ends of the unused wires. Leaving them dangling is an invitation to Murphy.

[jnfweber]

Looks like a good fit, and an effective solution. However, I would make a point to cut off the two unused lugs and insulate the ends of the unused wires. Leaving them dangling is an invitation to Murphy.

Jim,

That is good advice! I think there may be ways to connect the other two wires to the alternator. I am reading about that now. The old wires and harness are stiff and cracked, but will work for now. Perhaps I can find the answer here: http://mightymo.org/Proj_OneWire.html I will tape them up for now!


As I mentioned earlier, the 12SI might be superior, with a better cooling and a better fan. Here is where it is available, lowest rating 105 amps: http://www.alternatorparts.com/alternators_gm.htm I installed the alternator Saturday at 6:30 am, temperature 31 F. Took the car for a drive when it warmed up to 50 F and sunny. Today currently 35 F at 8:09 am, typical Memorial Day in Montana. Attached is a small photo of the 12SI. It looks a lot like the original alternator, but may have only one ear on the top side, although picture may not show 2nd ear.

Jack in Montana

[StudeMichael]

I sent you a private message in reference to buying the old alternator Jack in case you are interested in selling it.

[bonehead007]

I had my Avanti alternator rebuilt by Roberts & Son in Garfield NJ a few years ago. They did a good job on it. They are now called Metrodist at www.metrodist.com. 800-562-6975.

[PlainBrownR2]

I have a 12SI installed on the Lark that came from an 85 Chevy Blazer. It does indeed resemble the 40 amp alternator, but it's the older three wire setup. I had to notch out the front of the mounting point on the case so that the alternator could be moved forward, and aligned with the crankshaft pulley. The nice thing about these alternators is if it goes bad, there's a bazillion of them lying around, so all I need to do is get another from a swap meet or salvage yard.

[jtjim]

I had my alternator rebuilt at Hutchersons Automotive in Tampa, FL. They specialize in Diesel electrics but sent mine out to Tennesee to have the stator rewound. It works great. Cost $180. They said if it was just diodes and bearings, it would have been about $80.

[stupak]

The R1-2 alternator is part Number 1556902. The R3-4 alternator is part number 1561640. What is the difference between the two? Would the R1-2 unit work on a R3-4, and vise versa? I have a brand new in the box NOS #1561640. What would that be worth? Thanks. stupak

[StudeMichael]

The R1-2 alternator is part Number 1556902. The R3-4 alternator is part number 1561640. What is the difference between the two? Would the R1-2 unit work on a R3-4, and vise versa? I have a brand new in the box NOS #1561640. What would that be worth? Thanks. stupak

Not sure about the value, but do you plan on selling it? Someone put a Toyota one in my 1963 Avanti and I would like an original in it.

[PlainBrownR2]

I looked at the Green Section in the Lark Shop Manual and the Regular Section in the Avanti manual on the R3/R4 alternator. They list the number change as not having a pulley assembly with it. There's no indication of a higher output alternator, although the pulley may have changed, it just shows it as not having a pulley shipped with the alternator for the R3/R4's. That said there are two different types of 40 amp alternator casings floating around. One casing has one set of mounting ears on the top of it, which I believe was for the Avanti's. The other has two sets of mounting ears, which allow for the alternator a little more range on tightening the belt, that was for the Larks, Hawks, Avanti's, which I believe was a much more universal fit.

[stupak]

StudeMichael: No, I don't plan on selling it at the moment as I have a Avanti. Plus, seeing the difficulty others are having with alternators, I'd better hold on to this one. stupak

[jnfweber]

Avanti Alternator Alternatives

I will take my "broken" alternator to Springfield (my son and family live there) and ask Jon Meyer what it's worth. Allen in Butte said he couldn't repair it since the small red piece that held one of the brushes had broken off. He supplied me with both the piece and brush, and those will also go to Springfield. I will see what Jon says about fixing it, as I know he would like to have the alternator if he can fix it. There are not a lot of these lying around.

I have two Avantis, a 63 R2 and the 64 R1 air which now has the "custom" 65 amp 10SI one wire alternator, which looks ok except the upper mounting "ears" don't look right. I also like the NOS look (you wouldn't believe it if you saw the 47 year old "original" condition of the engine compartment). From what I have seen, the Delco 12SI http://www.alternatorparts.com/alternators_gm.htm might be a more authentic looking unit, because the fan looks more like the NOS Avanti alternator.

Thank you all for your helpful comments. Perhaps this thread will be of some benefit to someone else.



Jack in Montana