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Thread: Any info on a 472 Cadillac engine swap into a Hawk??

  1. #1
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    Any info on a 472 Cadillac engine swap into a Hawk??

    looking for pix/info/ideas/advice on installing a 71 472 caddy motor w/turbo 400 into my 56 Flight Hawk. Any shared info would be appreciated. I do already have the eldorado pan for it & am going to get going on it in April. I can be emailed @: bapajimbo@yahoo.com

  2. #2
    President Member woodysrods's Avatar
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    Welcome to the Forum Jim
    Your project sounds great! I am sure you will get some feedback from other Forum members, as we all like to see the progress of others.
    And we really love pictures. So check out how to post pictures at the top of this Forum page and start sharing.
    Good Roads
    BrianHemiStude004-1[1].jpg
    Brian Woods
    woodysrods@shaw.ca
    1946 M Series (Shop Truck)

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    1. Flanged axles, 11" Avanti rear brakes, a TwinTraction and 2.88 or 3.07 rear axle. Disc front brakes, V8 front springs.
    2. The 472" Cad is externally the same size as the Packard V8, so it will fit snugly.
    3. The challenge is getting the steering center pivot and the engine crank pulleys to co-exist. If you keep the AC and PS pulleys on there, clearance is in fractions of an inch. This one of the very, very few times a rack and pinion steering could be rationally recommended. With the center pivot gone, the engine can sit low enough to get everything under the hood. The good news is the Cad came in low-hoodline cars, so the intake, air cleaner and front mounted distributor are squashed down already. Some of the aftermarket aluminum intakes are too tall.
    4. I have always wanted to get one of the later model EFI engines and use an Electromotive or MegaSquirt controller for both fuel and spark. Getting rid of the distributor really cleans up the front of the engine.
    5. I saw a '53-54 with the 500" Cad at GoodGuys here in Spokane a few years back. IIRC, it was out of Seattle or Portland.

    jack vines
    PackardV8

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    President Member TX Rebel's Avatar
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    "Dastardly Dick's" Total Performance book has good info on the swap, and states that the Cad engine weighs 45# less than the Stude V8, improving handling. You will need to use a remote oil filter on this project. Some of you may remember the stunning candy apple red custom built by Bill Eckenrode here in Houston which was featured in may rod magazines, & had a 500 cu in engine, using an Eldo pan, air bags, and rack & pinion working with factory suspension.
    Barry'd in Studes

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    President Member Jerry Forrester's Avatar
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    32 more pictures here................
    http://rides.webshots.com/slideshow/575614086oFkgkX
    Jerry Forrester
    Forrester's Chrome
    Douglasville, Georgia


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    there are some excellent photo's on Old Car Fart's adventures with the Caddy & Stude. IIRC, Mr Rice put them up on webshots years ago. btw, anyone know the whereabouts and health of OCF? I miss him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Forrester View Post

    32 more pictures here................
    http://rides.webshots.com/slideshow/575614086oFkgkX
    Dang nab it Jerry, some day I'm gonna hack your photobucket account to look at all the Stude things you've done over the years. Nice work.

    Bob
    , ,

  8. #8
    Golden Hawk Member DEEPNHOCK's Avatar
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    Ol' Calvin is around and doing OK...Still in Clinton, SC.
    Saw him a few weeks ago...
    Jeff

    Quote Originally Posted by 8E12T6 View Post
    there are some excellent photo's on Old Car Fart's adventures with the Caddy & Stude. IIRC, Mr Rice put them up on webshots years ago. btw, anyone know the whereabouts and health of OCF? I miss him.

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    Hi jimmyg,
    Call Scott Benson at 602.568.7999--Gilbert,Arizona---He installed a built up 502 Caddy engine in his 56 Golden Hawk 30 years ago-over 500 hp still runs great--he builds Studes for customers.He is a perfectionist & great person. Gary Olson

  11. #11
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    I don't understand why you want to use a 40 year old engine. I have seen big block Cadillacs and other engines in various rods, but these were all built years ago. If you are going to all of the work, why not use a more modern engine, like from the past decade? I am sure that you can find a much newer engine that has as much, or more, horsepower, is smaller, weighs less and gets better fuel mileage.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

  12. #12
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    why not use a more modern engine, like from the past decade? I am sure that you can find a much newer engine that has as much, or more, horsepower, is smaller, weighs less and gets better fuel mileage.
    Yes, a GM LS engine is all of the above. It is also the most common V8 of the past decade, rapidly becoming as belly-button as the first SBC. What else built in the past decade fits your criteria at the same or lower price point than the Cadillac?

    No, nothing built in the last decade will top the Cadillac in all around street performance per dollar. Huge torque, relatively light weight, bolts up to all GM automatics, relatively affordable. It was GM's last big block V8 design and still holds up well today.

    Maybe, an engine selection is a matter of personal preference, just as is make and model of the body. "Yep, it's a 500" Cadillac." will always have some value in the equation. The Cad has many, many good points and very few negatives.

    jack vines
    PackardV8

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    President Member woodysrods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paxton bloR View Post
    Hi jimmyg,
    Call Scott Benson at 602.568.7999--Gilbert,Arizona---He installed a built up 502 Caddy engine in his 56 Golden Hawk 30 years ago-over 500 hp still runs great--he builds Studes for customers.He is a perfectionist & great person. Gary Olson
    Do you have an e-mail address for Scott?
    Brian
    Brian Woods
    woodysrods@shaw.ca
    1946 M Series (Shop Truck)

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    Quote Originally Posted by PackardV8 View Post
    Yes, a GM LS engine is all of the above. It is also the most common V8 of the past decade, rapidly becoming as belly-button as the first SBC. What else built in the past decade fits your criteria at the same or lower price point than the Cadillac?

    No, nothing built in the last decade will top the Cadillac in all around street performance per dollar. Huge torque, relatively light weight, bolts up to all GM automatics, relatively affordable. It was GM's last big block V8 design and still holds up well today.

    Maybe, an engine selection is a matter of personal preference, just as is make and model of the body. "Yep, it's a 500" Cadillac." will always have some value in the equation. The Cad has many, many good points and very few negatives.

    jack vines
    Yup, there is just something about a Studillac, has been for nearly 60 years!
    Pat Dilling
    Olivehurst, CA
    Custom '53 Starlight aka STU COOL
    '54 Conestoga Current Project aka STU KOOL


    Conestoga Project Journal: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9729183...7623379200673/
    LS1 Engine Swap Journal: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/jour...ournalid=33611

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Dilling View Post
    Yup, there is just something about a Studillac, has been for nearly 60 years!
    I agree. My uncle's '53 Starliner with the '53 vintage 331 Caddie is one of the coolest Studes around.

    I remember at age 9, being at a Swap Meet with my granddad and falling in love with a '54 Conestoga with a Caddie 472. Wanted a wagon ever since.
    Matthew Burnette

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    Commander Member Paul K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackardV8 View Post

    3. The challenge is getting the steering center pivot and the engine crank pulleys to co-exist. If you keep the AC and PS pulleys on there, clearance is in fractions of an inch. This one of the very, very few times a rack and pinion steering could be rationally recommended. With the center pivot gone, the engine can sit low enough to get everything under the hood. The good news is the Cad came in low-hoodline cars, so the intake, air cleaner and front mounted distributor are squashed down already. Some of the aftermarket aluminum intakes are too tall.


    jack vines
    Could the steering pivot be any closer than it is in an Avanti II with the Chevy motor? That clearance is about 1/4". If it does not clear, maybe a smaller crank pulley and a mod of the others may work.

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    Could the steering pivot be any closer than it is in an Avanti II with the Chevy motor? That clearance is about 1/4". If it does not clear, maybe a smaller crank pulley and a mod of the others may work.
    No, obviously, the bottom of the pulley can't be any closer than with the SBC. However, the Cadillac engine is taller than the SBC.

    jack vines
    PackardV8

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    While I haven't seen it for a while, there was a 59 or 60 Lark with a 472 "based" Cad. engine in it.
    Home made tunnel ram poking thru the hood, dark blue, Center Line wheels.

    A coupla older guys ran the car. Clean and constantly ran in the low 10sec./high 9sec. bracket depenfing on where he was (altitude). And the engine wasn't all that radical..!

    Mike

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    The Caddy engine

    I am sorry but I don'believe scott has an email address---
    Quote Originally Posted by woodysrods View Post
    Do you have an e-mail address for Scott?
    Brian

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    Mike, That was Baker Automotive.

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    President Member Jerry Forrester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetolbob View Post
    Dang nab it Jerry, some day I'm gonna hack your photobucket account to look at all the Stude things you've done over the years. Nice work.

    Bob
    Not really much to see, but have at it.
    http://community.webshots.com/user/jerrystudebaker
    I'm just a pore ole dumb country boy havin' fun.
    I don't seem to be able to finish many projects, but I sure am having fun starting them.
    OcrappyOne (wife unit) calls me a project starter, not a project finisher.
    Jerry Forrester
    Forrester's Chrome
    Douglasville, Georgia


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    Quote Originally Posted by studegary View Post
    I don't understand why you want to use a 40 year old engine. I have seen big block Cadillacs and other engines in various rods, but these were all built years ago. If you are going to all of the work, why not use a more modern engine, like from the past decade? I am sure that you can find a much newer engine that has as much, or more, horsepower, is smaller, weighs less and gets better fuel mileage.
    I guess because I'm "old school" & want the car to look like a 1970's era hotrod of my youth, I have no interest in a smallblock, fuel injected hi tech motor. I know there is a rationalization for newer/better, but that's why I'm opting for an old hotrod Studillac & leaving the late model supercharged Mustang stuff to my son-just different eras, I guess.

  23. #23
    Commander Member powerhawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Forrester View Post


    32 more pictures here................
    http://rides.webshots.com/slideshow/575614086oFkgkX
    I was searching on Google when i found this thread where else on SDC
    then i looked at Jerry's album very cool
    I have a ?? 500 Caddy or maybe 472 motor with a EGR valve i got in Ohio
    years back with a 49 Buick Super fastback cars gone still have the motor
    so the way Jerry fit that Caddy in the 53 coupe has me thinking may be
    the motor has found a place to live

  24. #24
    Golden Hawk Member DEEPNHOCK's Avatar
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    Calvin's doin' OK (for an Oldcarfart)...
    He sticks his nose in here every once and a while..
    Here's the pic's you mentioned....
    http://rides.webshots.com/album/91238797eqIUTx
    As a side note...
    He sold the Stude, and recently got it back, minus the Caddy engine..
    It might be available again...
    Jeff
    PS: Teaser pic:


    Quote Originally Posted by 8E12T6 View Post
    there are some excellent photo's on Old Car Fart's adventures with the Caddy & Stude. IIRC, Mr Rice put them up on webshots years ago. btw, anyone know the whereabouts and health of OCF? I miss him.
    Jeff



    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

  25. #25
    Commander Member powerhawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEEPNHOCK View Post
    PS: Teaser pic:
    Wow that is pretty as a picture fits like a glove

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    rack and pinion in stude caddy swap

    what is the source of the rack and pinion that is pictured in the photos of the stude/caddy swap? I''m doing a 472 into a 57
    Thanks
    Chris

  27. #27
    President Member 63 R2 Hawk's Avatar
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    Seems I remember reading somewhere that the guy(s) who designed the original Caddy V8 also had a finger in the Studebaker V8 design pie...? I know the Cad intake manifolds are very close and can be made to fit the Studebaker with a little carving.

  28. #28
    Golden Hawk Member DEEPNHOCK's Avatar
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    The Caddy intake can be made to bolt on, but the fit is not very good for performance.
    Look in the search box for Stude and Caddy history.
    Volumes have been posted on this subject..... Some of it is even true!

    Quote Originally Posted by 63 R2 Hawk View Post
    Seems I remember reading somewhere that the guy(s) who designed the original Caddy V8 also had a finger in the Studebaker V8 design pie...? I know the Cad intake manifolds are very close and can be made to fit the Studebaker with a little carving.

  29. #29
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    caddy to stude swap

    getting the engine to fit was a piece of cake. took the stude motor mount from the 289, cut it, added a 1" piece to widen it lengthwise, welded it up and bolted it to the caddy block. Modified the rubber mount on the drivers side to be a bolt thru the rubber donut with leftover shock rubbers above the block mount and below the frame mount (a trick learned from racing a Lark to handle the torque). welded a piece of angle to the front of the trans crossmember and slipped the engine in with a short extension turbo 400. had to remove the pipe plug from the passenger side head rear and replace with a recessed plug to allow clearance from the firewall. use a remote oil filter kit from Summit Racing ($40) to relocate the oil filter which will interfere with the front crossmember. Used a 425 caddy rear sump pan and fabricated a rear oil pump pickup from some 1/2" tubing. 4 row radiator for the heat. am going to have to fab a stiffener brace for the hawk frame tho as the caddy really flexes the frame. will put it in where the old driveshaft bearing mounted.

    two avantis, 57 bought by parents in 57, 51 pickup and other toys. anybody need a 289 225hp, 3 sp od drivetrain?

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