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Thread: Anyone ever try intall of a hydraulic clutch kit

  1. #1
    President Member okc63avanti's Avatar
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    Anyone ever try intall of a hydraulic clutch kit

    Here's a photo of a hydraulic clutch kit which uses a small reservoir hydraulic cylinder to actuate the linkage rod from clutch pedal to transmission. Has anyone installed one of these or similar on a Studebaker or Avanti (in my case). If so how difficult would it be?



    Thanks

    John
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    President Member bezhawk's Avatar
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    It might be a bit of a tight squeeze to fit around the brake booster. Also the brakes have the steel reinforcement of the pedal assy to prevent the fiberglass from cracking.
    Perhaps it could be mounted inside the car with some sort of bracketry bolted off of the pedal reinforcement?
    Or, a smaller brake booster could be adapted, like one of the newer 7" dual diphragm units?
    I have seen it done, but, on a race car without power brakes.
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    We'll assume you've evaluated the linkage under the car and all is well and operating w/o issues. If not, you may get a surprise ! If it were me, I'd pull the pressure plate and have the springs lightened up some for an easier foot. GL

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    You've shown an actual hydraulic clutch. It would be very hard to adapt this tothe stude bellhousing and TO bearing. An alternative is to use a master cylinder like that shown in the photo, with a slave unit, mount the slave to a bracket on the transmission, and connect to the standard throwout bearing bellcrank with a short linkage. Pull type or push type slaves are available. I've done this for 53 coupe. The photo components you show are not made to run a mechanical linkage, I do not think. Thanks, m weiss

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    Quote Originally Posted by okc63avanti View Post
    Here's a photo of a hydraulic clutch kit which uses a small reservoir hydraulic cylinder to actuate the linkage rod from clutch pedal to transmission. Has anyone installed one of these or similar on a Studebaker or Avanti (in my case). If so how difficult would it be?



    Thanks
    John, check your pm......

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    Silver Hawk Member jclary's Avatar
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    My question is why would you want to install a hydraulic slave cylinder system in any vehicle that was designed to use a simple mechanical setup? I have had several vehicles that used slave cylinders to operate the clutch. They usually are there because a strictly mechanical linkage was not practical. They are inherently more complex than a mechanical linkage and therefore are more likely to fail.
    John Clary
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  7. #7
    President Member okc63avanti's Avatar
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    The photo isn't of one that I was thinking of using, but simply a photo to generate discussion (I should have specified that). I've been contacted offline by a Forum member and he has installed a simple setup and is going to send me details. I'm still interested in hearing others with their suggestions.

    My Avanti has been set up with Studebaker bell housing with GM bolt pattern, GM clutch with approx 2700 ~ 2800 lb spring and a Tremec TKO 5 speed. I am not wanting to change to a hydraulic throw out bearing but just a simple hydraulic power assist to make using the clutch pedal easier on the knees.

    Thanks,

    John
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    Silver Hawk Member jclary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okc63avanti View Post
    ... I am not wanting to change to a hydraulic throw out bearing but just a simple hydraulic power assist to make using the clutch pedal easier on the knees.

    Thanks,
    That answers my question. I was just wanting a good reason for the modification. You have provided it. Good luck and let us know how it works.
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    Smile Hydraulically Operated Clutch

    I think I would DRIVE the car first, before making these kind of decisions, unless you already know your left knee is shot.

    If this is the Avanti I think it is, it is unfortunate that my friend Mike Myer has it apart at this time, so you can't, but it still would be the preferred method. If you are thinking of doing it later after you recieve the Car, you still have that option.
    StudeRich
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    President Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    I know of an '82 or '83 Avanti that had the Hydramatic transmission replaced with a 6-speed manual with hydraulic kit, but the owner has since sold the car so I don't know much about it. It can be done, but I don't know how difficult or involved the process was.
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    but just a simple hydraulic power assist to make using the clutch pedal easier on the knees.
    FWIW, what you're describing above isn't going to happen. The force required to depress the clutch pedal is exactly the same whether transferred through fluid or steel linkage.

    Granted, the steel linkage on the Avanti and late Larks is among the worst ever designed and has a lot of kinks and flexing. Most any hydraulic setup would be an improvement. However, from an engineering and technical writing accuracy standpoint, there is no "hydraulic power assist" involved in a hydraulic clutch actuating system. It simply transfers the same force to the clutch cover through a different medium.

    jack vines
    PackardV8

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    President Member Skinnys Garage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackardV8 View Post
    FWIW, what you're describing above isn't going to happen. The force required to depress the clutch pedal is exactly the same whether transferred through fluid or steel linkage.
    jack vines
    I can tell you from personal experience that Jack is correct. I bought a '64 Comet that someone converted from an automatic to a 4-speed. Instead of finding all the correct z-bar parts, they used a hydraulic Wilwood pedal and slave to operate the clutch fork. I drove the car for a while that way and you still needed a strong leg to operate it. I hunted around and found all the correct pedals and z-bar setup to switch it out. It actually operated easier with the correct parts because the pedal length and ratio was a little better than the Wilwood.
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    Depending on how you design it you could make it easier but you could also make worse.
    Terry

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    President Member okc63avanti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StudeRich View Post
    I think I would DRIVE the car first, before making these kind of decisions, unless you already know your left knee is shot.

    If this is the Avanti I think it is, it is unfortunate that my friend Mike Myer has it apart at this time, so you can't, but it still would be the preferred method. If you are thinking of doing it later after you recieve the Car, you still have that option.
    Left knee has had orthoscopic surgery once about 5 years but doing good. Yes my Avanti is at Myer Studebaker but its not really unfortunate because I've been blessed with the funds to do a complete frame-off resto-mod on it and anticipate it being finished for Nationals this year. Body finished and painted, engine, chassis, suspension, brakes all finished and we are ready to put body back on the chassis. The dash and gauges are about finished and Mike will start on wiring, interior, etc. soon.

    I've been contacted by someone on Forum running a Wilwood 3/4" slave cylinder and Howe throw-out bearing and says it helps, but I may wait until Mike has it finished, drive it and see how it feels before making that change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PackardV8 View Post
    FWIW, what you're describing above isn't going to happen. The force required to depress the clutch pedal is exactly the same whether transferred through fluid or steel linkage.


    jack vines

    I don't understand why the force would have to remain the same...why did auto braking systems change from mechanical to hydraulic systems?? Besides, hydraulic clutches are so smooth...my vote is for hydraulic. Junior


    54 Champ C5 Hamilton car.

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    Silver Hawk Member Bob Andrews's Avatar
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    We've used hydraulic clutches for years on the oval track cars I race. Really super-simple to set up and use, and work great. Biggest trick is rigging the pedal/cylinder, and that's not too hard. I think they do require less force, but that would depend on what bearing/cylinder combination was used.

    First question: What do the Myers think of the idea?
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    President Member bezhawk's Avatar
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    The forces required are the same as brakes....and based on cylinder sizes.
    A smaller master cylinder produces higher pressures,but with a longer stroke.
    High School Physics

  18. #18
    President Member okc63avanti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Andrews View Post
    First question: What do the Myers think of the idea?
    Bob, I intend to find out, I'll probably call Mike next Friday and discuss with him. Even though he is restoring my car, I resist calling him every week. He is a busy man and I have learned to appreciate that his time is valuable. I usually hold the phone calls to a couple a month. I will let everyone know, though what he suggests and also what my ultimate decision is. Another member has done this install on a 62 Daytona (similar frame) and is sending me part #'s and pictures.

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    I have a 2004 GTO with a 6 speed and a hydraulic clutch, and my '63 Avanti with a TKO
    and mechanical setup. After replacing the bushings in the pedal assembly and adding a
    set of bronze bushings to the linkage, the Avanti isnt THAT much harder to operate then
    the GTO. I also notice there is more feel with the mechanical linkage.

    Tom
    '63 Avanti R1, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
    Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
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  20. #20
    President Member okc63avanti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbca96 View Post
    I have a 2004 GTO with a 6 speed and a hydraulic clutch, and my '63 Avanti with a TKO
    and mechanical setup. After replacing the bushings in the pedal assembly and adding a
    set of bronze bushings to the linkage, the Avanti isnt THAT much harder to operate then
    the GTO. I also notice there is more feel with the mechanical linkage.

    Tom
    Tom where the bronze bushings used originally from factory or is that an improvement you made? If an improvement let me know the details of type and where you found the bronze bushings. I'm leaning towards trying out before going the hydraulic route.

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    It was an improvement I made, using a basic bushing ordered from McMaster Carr.
    I added a bushing to the top and bottom of the clutch pedal bell crank.

    The part I used is a SAE 863 bronze material, which is "also called Super Oilite®,
    this material is similar to SAE 841 but contains more iron for greater strength. It is
    also impregnated with oil that meets USDA H-1."

    2938T36 SAE 863 FLANGED-SLEEVE BEARING, FOR 3/8" SHAFT DIA,1/2"OD X 1/2"L X 5/8"FLANGE OD

    I thought I took some pictures of the finished part, but it seems I didnt.

    Tom

  22. #22
    Speedster Member
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    OKC- PM me and I can send you pictures of two setups, one push, the other pull. I agree with bob andrews- a pretty straightforward solution. It does take a little engineering. Jack Vines is correct that the forces are the same, it's not a power assist, the MC/slave ratio is what determines the pressure at your foot, and the length of the throw. Bob Andrews, Jon Meyer gave me the idea and initial help a couple of years ago, and He suggested it to me for my 259 with a tremec tko 500, it Works well. The pull slave on a T56 is yet to be street-driven, but works well so far for short runs, still working on that car- thanks, m weiss

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    Silver Hawk Member Bob Andrews's Avatar
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    Do keep us posted, especially if you do it. It's got me thinking about trying it on a street car myself...
    Proud NON-CASO

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