dual master cylinder for brakes--questions

[259man]

I said in my post, you could fill through the original hole, just didn't explain, sorry. By using a Turner bracket, a Raybestos 56193 cylinder, and drilling a hole in the divider. See the tech articles. Here's a shot, not good, but you can see the fill hole.

Is that the clutch return spring in this picture?

I've thought about buying the kit, but I wasn't sure how to set up my clutch return spring. Did you need to make any modifications for it to work with the kit?

Thanks.

[r1lark]

Another way you can have a failure and lose your entire braking system can be gleaned from another recent post on this forum. A rear axle shaft broke.......the axle stub and drum separate.......the wheel cylinder/shoes have nothing to push against........no brakes unless you have a dual master cylinder.

[bsrosell]

THANKS TO ALL for the good input. OK, I'm convinced! :-) That is the type of info I was looking for.
So my only remaining question is regarding the brake-lines. RossStude's comments made me consider that, hadn't thought there was any real difference in the lines for this upgrade? Since the m/c is still in the same location, isn't it simply a matter of bending the "original" length lines around a bit to fit the different output nipples? Or perhaps a little splice piece as shown in Flashback's photo? I was hoping to find a vendor that could provide stainless steel lines, configured/pre-bent per original brake-line layout. I want stainless, but have no interest in investing in the proper flaring tools required to do the job from scratch. Suggestions? Also, I've not looked for a vendor who actually provides these SS pre-bent lines, any recommendations?
thanks again for all the information. (and no worries on 'hijacking' the post! :-) brake topics for all models are a concern to all of us!)

[52 Ragtop]

No, the original lines that come out of the M/C will "probably" go into a brass T. That is the best place to split the lines (IMHO) You will need to bend and fabricate the lines to the new dual M/C. I do not have the lines made up, due to so many different models and the lines are not that hard to make up.

in-line tube will make you up any type of line you want, just provide them with a pattern. You can use a coat hanger to make the pattern, and tell them what fittings you want on each end.

Jim

[jnormanh]

I clearly remember my father coming home from work in his nearly new '49 Plymouth and smashing right through the garage door when a front brake hose pulled out of the fitting. IMO, it's nuts to use a single master cylinder on a driven car.

[Kdancy]

I'll always change over to a dual chamber MC -- several years ago, my son was driving our "just finished" 66 mustang convertable. It had all new brake parts from front to back. A new rear cylinder blew out and he hit a parking curb after snatching and breaking the E-Brake cable !
We had to re- do the car. I did it that time with a dual chamber mc.

[tony_n_austin]

Turn brakes info says that a hydrovac booster if you use the disk front brakes. So here is a new question. How to use a hydrovac with dual master cylinder?


Tony

[woodysrods]

Dual M/C is a no brainer. All good suggestions above. As for brake lines? They are cheap, cheap, cheap,! So replace them all. If you don't have an inverted flaring tool, just take good measurments and purchase pre made (not pre bent) lines from your local auto parts store. They come guarded, un guarded, and now you can get black coated lines.
Stainles is nice but harder to work with and if you switch to DOT 5 Silicone brake fluid (a must on restored cars, as it doesn' t eat your new paint on contact) there is no need for stainless, as the inside of your brake system will never rust. Remember conventional paint eating brake fluid absorbs moisture and causes brake systems to rust from the inside and "FAIL". You must have all new components before switching to DOT 5. But your brakes are the most imortant part of any restoration, no matter what level. So Don't Cheap Out!
Good Roads
Brian

[bsrosell]

thanks Brian. Appreciate the advice. Will definitely be replacing ALL lines (brakes, fuel, tranny) so DOT5 is my plan anyway.

[sbca96]

I had a Hawk with every single piece of brake hydraulic system new and I never had a problem. I've never had a problem with single master cylinder cars with all new parts. But I do always check my e-brake to make sure it's functioning properly.

New parts fail too, thats how I lost my brakes on the '60 Hawk and plowed through a
sign before coming to a stop. Rear wheel cylinder "cup" had an air bubble in the part
molding, it popped through and was spitting fluid out the side : it both sucked & blew.

I dont have any experience with the Turner setup, my plan with the Hawk was to put
a second stock master next to the original one, and run separate systems with some
linkage to mate them. I figured it was through bolted anyway, use the original one as
the front, and the added one as the rear. Unfortunately my Hawk was taken out of
service by an extra cab pickup and never got the upgrade.

Tom

[pdrnec]

[JoeHall]

I had an identical experience in a 56J a few years ago, and wondered the same thing. ALL pedal was lost. I too, was lucky to be just backing out of a driveway and turned the wheels all the way to lock. That was not with Turner's DB setup but another DB setup. It did have a Turner dual MC kit, however. The culprit was same as yours, with the line coming into the caliper. I fixed it exactly as you did. Also, located a longer banjo bolt, since the more common one just barely has enough threads to do the job; marginal at best.

Soo, the question remains, does the dual MC truly result in loss of front or rear brakes, instead of both? Looks like that has not been at least two of us' experience.

[pdrnec]

There was a thread here that mentioned an alternate brake line with a square banjo fitting - can't seem to find it, anybody recall it? Seems like the square fitting would help prevent movement....

[mmagic]

There are two issues in play.
1) Dual Master Cylinder? This for me is a no brainer.. Absolutely. As a 10 year old I was riding with Mom in our '47 Starlight Coupe when the brakes failed at a stop sign. Our vehicle fortunately was equiped with hand controls that relied on a separate air brake driven type master cylinder in the trunk. While mom panicked, I remember reaching over and pulling down the air brake lever. While I didn't switch the Champ to dual master cylinder when I restored it, I keep the e-brake adjusted and keep a bit more space between me and the car in front.

2) Remote Master Cylinder? I didn't want a hole in the new carpet in the Champ so for the cost of a worn out master cylinder a piece of brake tubing and two fittings I have a remote. At C Springs Turner showed me a dual master designed specifically for a remote reservoir. I suspect this is in his futures once he resolves details. The biggest benefit of a remote is subtle in that I routinely open the remote on the Champ when checking fluids under the hood while I doubt if I would take the extra effort and risk of dripping on the carpet if the fill was still under the floor board.

[Mike Van Veghten]

The system I have on my 54 wagon is a totally seperate system with the reservoir.
It's a Wilwood, remote setup. The actual reservoir is in the engine compartment. I used a single reservoir with a split line running to each side of the cylinder.

I'll have to give Wilwood a call and verify "again" on this as this is the main reason for me going this route also.
But as I noted, the only thing connecting the front and the back systems...is the cylinder housing. It's a split piston, totally seperate systems within the cylinder and not connected by any lines.

Mike