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Thread: Studebaker VIN# Plates

  1. #1
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    Studebaker VIN# Plates


    Here is a web site that sells Studebaker metal plates for VIN #

    http://www.whiteglovecollection.com/...index_65.shtml

  2. #2
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    That's great if you have a 1952 or older, most of his stuff is older than that...pre-war actually.

    StudeRich
    Studebakers Northwest
    Ferndale, WA

  3. #3
    President Member r1lark's Avatar
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    quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

    That's great if you have a 1952 or older, most of his stuff is older than that...pre-war actually.

    StudeRich
    Studebakers Northwest
    Ferndale, WA
    This thread brings up a question that I have been wondering about. I assume that Studebaker had some sort of device that stamped the serial number letters/digits in the stainless plate all at one time. I would think that hand stamping would not have produced the even spacing, consistent depth, etc that the serial plates have. From what I have seen of the Avanti II serial plates, they used the same size/shape stamped numerals, at least in the Altman years. So, one of the 'devices' must have survived at least up until the '80s or even later. Anyone know the whereabouts of it??

    Paul

    Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: http://hometown.aol.com/r1skytop/myhomepage/index.html

  4. #4
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    Does not look like White Glove does the VIN tags any longer. Anyone know how to get this done?
    Dan White
    64 R1 GT
    64 R2 GT
    58 C Cab
    57 Broadmoor (Marvin)

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    I'm curious. Is it even legal to replace a VIN plate? And, if it is, how does the Studebaker community in general look upon it. As a Sunbeam Tiger owner we have no "stamped on body/frame" ID numbers. We have the Roote's riveted VIN and a screwed on Jensen ID number (Jensen modified the Alpine into Tiger form). Both are removable and once gone there is no specific ID for the cars.

    This can lead to people taking Tiger specific parts and putting them on an Alpine (including the I.D.). This can make a $10,000 Alpine into a $35,000 Tiger. Well, if you want to get the Tiger community riled up just try pulling that off! There is very vocal "calling out" of the fraud. Note that if you put a Ford V-8 in an Alpine and identify it as such they have no issue. The issue is "faking" a Tiger and passing it off as one of the 7,000 originals. To that end they have an authentication group that will designate a Tiger as original if they can verify Tiger specific aspects regarding the body/frame modification as done by Jensen. They have even authenticated Tigers void of the Rootes and Jensen I.D..

    Anyway, I know there are some Studebaker's that are unique, but a common version could be altered into "like fashion." Has the Studebaker community in general ever dealt with the similar issues to what the Tiger community does? That being a common car altered to be something it originally was not, but being passed off as though it was.

    Tom

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by wittsend View Post
    Anyway, I know there are some Studebaker's that are unique, but a common version could be altered into "like fashion." Has the Studebaker community in general ever dealt with the similar issues to what the Tiger community does? That being a common car altered to be something it originally was not, but being passed off as though it was.

    Tom
    The answer to your question is "yes, of course." But (and it's a big "but") since copies of original factory production orders are available for most post-War Studes, it's pretty hard to produce a clone that would convince anyone except the most unsophisticated purchaser that it was authentic. That said, a really well-done full-package R2 Hawk clone will still bring some pretty good money.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by wittsend View Post
    I'm curious. Is it even legal to replace a VIN plate? And, if it is, how does the Studebaker community in general look upon it. As a Sunbeam Tiger owner we have no "stamped on body/frame" ID numbers. We have the Roote's riveted VIN and a screwed on Jensen ID number (Jensen modified the Alpine into Tiger form). Both are removable and once gone there is no specific ID for the cars.

    This can lead to people taking Tiger specific parts and putting them on an Alpine (including the I.D.). This can make a $10,000 Alpine into a $35,000 Tiger. Well, if you want to get the Tiger community riled up just try pulling that off! There is very vocal "calling out" of the fraud. Note that if you put a Ford V-8 in an Alpine and identify it as such they have no issue. The issue is "faking" a Tiger and passing it off as one of the 7,000 originals. To that end they have an authentication group that will designate a Tiger as original if they can verify Tiger specific aspects regarding the body/frame modification as done by Jensen. They have even authenticated Tigers void of the Rootes and Jensen I.D..

    Anyway, I know there are some Studebaker's that are unique, but a common version could be altered into "like fashion." Has the Studebaker community in general ever dealt with the similar issues to what the Tiger community does? That being a common car altered to be something it originally was not, but being passed off as though it was.

    Tom
    I for one am completely against reproduction V.I.N plates....and for that matter re-stamping engine blocks.... or referring to certain engines as things they are not. It's just way too easy that doing things like this will confuse FUTURE Studebaker enthusiasts. However, I received very little support from forum members on this subject....some still joke about of it. Hopefully these 'naysayers' never have to 'learn the hard way'. SN-60

  8. #8
    President Member Swifster's Avatar
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    It's hard for me to take the high moral ground because sectioning a car, replacing a frame, etc., is pretty common in the insurance business. From purely a collector stand point, I see the dark side. But at the same time if insurance companies and body shops swap stuff over on late model cars, I've come around to seeing the benefits.

    I have a '71 Plymouth Sport Fury GT 25 years ago. Make no mistake, it was a real GT (1of 371) but it was a mess. The car comes with numerous hidden VINs. I want to say we found 5 of them. You couldn't just rebody the car. But it also came with a 383 2V engine from a Fury III. We sourced a correct 440HP block that was even correctly date coded. And then we machined off the VIN from the pan rail. It was left blank like a Chrysler warranty block. When the car was sold, it was advised the engine was changed. When it was sold 20 years ago, it brought $30K.

    Now you can buy a shell for your Camaro, Firebird, Mustang, MGB, Mini, etc. Many of this shells are to rebody rusty hulks. Go for it. Many European cars had shells available for collision repair (Porsche 911 comes to mind). In the old days, the complete car was a service part. Need a frame, swap it out. If the body was available, swap it if it's cost effective.

    I've replaced two VIN on collector cars. One was a stolen recovered '69 Cadillac DeVille convertible. The original VIN was removed and a VIN from a '68 was installed. Working with the local Polk County Sheriff's Department, a new VIN number was made and installed. The second was '63 Pontiac Catalina Super Duty that was hit in the 'A' pillar and smashed like an accordion. After the 'A' pillar was replaced, so was the VIN with new rosette rivets.

    Can you make a car from a VIN tag and data tag. Yes. There was a badly rusted '57 Golden Hawk on Craigslist that everyone panned. I thought if you could find a good body, it could be rebodied with no problem. The engine was still in the car and everything else but the supercharger was still there. BUT, how much would a usable body cost and what would the restoration costs be? Probably more than just buying a nice '57 Golden Hawk.

    As Skip mentioned, build sheets are available. Let the buyer beware. Like any collectible, a buyer has to do their homework. There is only 10 REAL R3 cars and they are all known and well documented. There is only 1 R4 Daytona and THAT VIN is known.

    According to the law, a VIN can not be removed to DECEIVE. If the car is being restored and the VIN gets replaced for cosmetic reasons, there is no problem. The VIN and Cowl Tag on my Daytona are tucked away with the title. After the shell gets painted, the VIN will go back on. There is some surface rust and I have not made the decision on if it will be replaced.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tom - Lakeland, FL (75*)

    1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)

  9. #9
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    Perhaps off topic, but is there a way to get a cowl tag reproduced? Thanks.

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=Swifster; There is only 10 REAL R3 cars and they are all known and well documented. There is only 1 R4 Daytona and THAT VIN is known.

    [/QUOTE]

    So, You're saying that the '64 Daytona R3 Hardtop 'Hot Rod Magazine Spl' is not a 'REAL' R3 Studebaker?

  11. #11
    President Member Swifster's Avatar
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    That was an R4. As far as I know, the only R3 Lark is Nelson's Commander. But hey, if you want to post up the Hot Rod article showing an R3 Daytona, have at it...

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tom - Lakeland, FL (75*)

    1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)

  12. #12
    President Member Swifster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GinettaG12P View Post
    Perhaps off topic, but is there a way to get a cowl tag reproduced? Thanks.
    No ones been able to get the stamping right. The same is true with the streamers. I want to say Bob Andrews was working on it but I don't think he succeeded.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tom - Lakeland, FL (75*)

    1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifster View Post
    That was an R4. As far as I know, the only R3 Lark is Nelson's Commander. But hey, if you want to post up the Hot Rod article showing an R3 Daytona, have at it...
    Check out the Jan/64 'HOT ROD MAGAZINE'....'STUDE'S 150 MPH LARK R3' ('64 Daytona HT)..........So, I guess You were wrong when You said TEN R3's!!!!!!!

  14. #14
    President Member bezhawk's Avatar
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    I have restored several # plates, there are (is) more than one font used for various numerals. Of course I have to have them engraved because there is no matching font. And to put Ed's mind at ease they all have been for cosmetic restorations, not to change any numbers.
    Bez Auto Alchemy
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    http://bezautoalchemy.com

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bezhawk View Post
    I have restored several # plates, there are (is) more than one font used for various numerals. Of course I have to have them engraved because there is no matching font. And to put Ed's mind at ease they all have been for cosmetic restorations, not to change any numbers.
    Thanks Bez!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by GinettaG12P View Post
    Perhaps off topic, but is there a way to get a cowl tag reproduced? Thanks.

    Some years ago I was doing a resto on my Bombay red 53 Commander. The car had been reimported from Guatemala. While there it had been repainted and during that process the body cowl tag had been lost.

    Hell bent on doing a 400 point car I bought some blank cowl tags from Jon Myers and started trying to find the correct font with zero success. I ran into Bob Belling from Connecticut at York who agreed to try to make one for me by hand from one of the blanks. His work as is typical of him was flawless ---an exact reproduction.
    Last edited by ed ellis; 09-18-2013 at 04:48 AM.
    ed ellis



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