Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 57

Thread: Rack and Pinion Steering

  1. #1
    Champion Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Asheboro, NC, USA.
    Posts
    8

    Rack and Pinion Steering

    Is it feasible to put rach & pinion steering on a 54 champion coupe?
    If so, what works?

  2. #2
    President Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Bay City, Mi., USA.
    Posts
    4,980
    Check Jerry Forrester's posts for the last month. He has a great setup based on Mid-90's GM mid-size. If I were to do mine again I use his.

    In fact, Hopefully he'll see your post and answer.

    He likes to post pictures of his work. Back at yah Jerry!![}]

    Bob

    ,

  3. #3
    Silver Hawk Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Spokane, WA, USA.
    Posts
    5,393
    quote:Is it feasible to put rach & pinion steering on a 54 champion coupe? If so, what works?
    Yes, it can be done, and I'd agree with sob A "center-takeoff" rack is a must. If the rack does not attach the arms in the center, very close to where the Stude tie rod ends are supposed to be, bump steer will be the inevitable result.

    No, it is not easy and more have been done incorrectly than correctly.

    Maybe you should try a search here. This subject has been covered in excruciating detail many times previously.

    thnx, jack vines

    PackardV8

  4. #4
    Commander Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    stroudsburg, pa, USA.
    Posts
    98
    how do i find these posts? I guess i'm not computer savy enough to find them. I did try..thank you joedipipi@msn.com I am presntly using a slick street set up but would really like power steering in my modified c coupe...again thank you..

  5. #5
    President Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Bay City, Mi., USA.
    Posts
    4,980
    Just go to the search function in the upper right. Search by topic-steering, tech forum and member-Jerry forrester and you'll find this.

    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...Terms=steering

    Scrool down through the post and you'll find the picture and description

    Bob

    ,

  6. #6
    President Member Jerry Forrester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Douglasville, Georgia, USA.
    Posts
    2,278
    quote:Originally posted by 53 stude mod

    how do i find these posts? I guess i'm not computer savy enough to find them. I did try..thank you joedipipi@msn.com I am presntly using a slick street set up but would really like power steering in my modified c coupe...again thank you..
    Here's my webshots. Pages 3-4-5 shows the R&P.

    http://good-times.webshots.com/album...cfruwd?start=0

    I almost forgot to post a pic. (for Bob's benefit) [][^]


    Jerry Forrester
    Forrester's Chrome
    Douglasville, Georgia

  7. #7
    President Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    , , USA.
    Posts
    678
    53 stude mod-

    The Slick Street Stuff setup uses a Flaming River Omni Rear Steer Rack & Pinion unit. If you want to switch over to power, you would probably want to go with something like this:

    http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cf...rod/prd485.htm



    http://community.webshots.com/user/s...host=community

  8. #8
    Silver Hawk Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Spokane, WA, USA.
    Posts
    5,393

    The Slick Street setup uses completely different suspension. In my experience, installing a standard rear-steer rack with OEM Stude suspension will produce bump steer.

    Using a rack which mounts the tie rods in the center near the OEM location works best with Studes.

    thnx, jack vines

    PackardV8

  9. #9
    President Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Lake City, Fla
    Posts
    1,795
    Try these guys--
    http://industrialchassis.blogspot.co...90642380974123

    53commander HDTP
    53 Champion HDTP
    64 Champ long bed V8

  10. #10
    Silver Hawk Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Spokane, WA, USA.
    Posts
    5,393
    Those guys do very nice street rod work. Their $4000 cost is entirely reasonable, but will scare off most CASOs.

    One caveat,because I've been there many times and am hopelessly far down the slippery slope on my pickup just now - once a project like this starts, there is no stopping place. You want to pay someone to install rack and pinion steering? While it is apart, might as well swap in a late Chevy, overdrive automatic, air conditioning, a new rear suspension, new interior, new paint, new chrome. Pretty soon, it's a nice street rod with a few Stude pieces left and the bank account is $25,000 in the red.

    thnx, jack vines

    PackardV8

  11. #11
    President Member woodysrods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westbank, B.C., Canada.
    Posts
    2,689
    Searching old posts, trying to do my homework. And once again Jerry Forrester seems to be the man. Jerry I want to hear from you more! How did the rack shown in this thread work out after driven. Did you like it? Was it worth the effort? What would you do differently? Pleease give me reasons to follow your lead.
    Brian
    Brian Woods
    woodysrods@shaw.ca
    1946 M Series (Shop Truck)

  12. #12
    Speedster Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Oceano, Calif, , .
    Posts
    369
    Steeroids also has a center take off power R&P with the tie rod attachment at the rear of the rack, eliminating the need for an adapter (such as w/ the 1990's GM skyhawk, Lemans, etc units). Having done the GM unit, if I were to do it again, I would go w/ Steeroids (there is another steering supplier w/ the same R&P system as Steeroids, but cannot think of its name). It is more $$$$ and requires a cross member to mount it, but is much more direct and the extra crossmember adds rigidity to the Stude' frame.

    Also, if you have a turner brake retro, check for hose clearance when the wheel is at full right or left and at upper wheel extension (as when pulling into a narrow steep driveway). My '63 Hawk would have sheared off the hose at the wheel cylinder if the above conditions would have happened..
    Good luck w/ your project, Paul Keller

  13. #13
    President Member Jerry Forrester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Douglasville, Georgia, USA.
    Posts
    2,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Keller View Post
    Steeroids also has a center take off power R&P with the tie rod attachment at the rear of the rack, eliminating the need for an adapter
    I looked at their web site and most of the forwarding links and could not find what you describe. Must have missed it. Point me to it please. I want one.

    [QUOTE (such as w/ the 1990's GM skyhawk, Lemans, etc units).[/QUOTE]

    That's all I saw on all their applications.

    I hope one day they'll make a kit for our Studes.
    Jerry Forrester
    Forrester's Chrome
    Douglasville, Georgia


  14. #14
    President Member Jerry Forrester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Douglasville, Georgia, USA.
    Posts
    2,278
    I also hope someday, someone will make a rack that will move 8 inches instead of the 5 3/4 like most every rack I have checked. That will sure solve a lot of the problems encountered when installing the R&P on a vehicle not originally designed for one.
    Jerry Forrester
    Forrester's Chrome
    Douglasville, Georgia


  15. #15
    President Member woodysrods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westbank, B.C., Canada.
    Posts
    2,689
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Forrester View Post
    I also hope someday, someone will make a rack that will move 8 inches instead of the 5 3/4 like most every rack I have checked. That will sure solve a lot of the problems encountered when installing the R&P on a vehicle not originally designed for one.
    Jerry, You still have not told me how yours worked? Were you happy? And from your last statement I assume the turning radius is decreased when installing a R&P.
    Still sitting on the fence ready to fall either way. Had an old hotrodder friend here yesterday, who was looking at my Hawks in the shop. And did metion that he had a couple of C/K cars in his day, and that they had terrible steering. But some of the purists on the forum have made it sound like there is nothing wrong with Studebaker system? I want to put an 86 Corvette (C4) in my Hawk and leave Sandi's stock?? But never having driven a C/K car or even ridden in one I am in the dark here.
    Brian
    Brian Woods
    woodysrods@shaw.ca
    1946 M Series (Shop Truck)

  16. #16
    Silver Hawk Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Spokane, WA, USA.
    Posts
    5,393
    We've beaten this poor R&P dead horse far too many times. For whatever reason, few want to rebuild the original suspension. It takes great skill and lots of money to improve on the Stude suspension. I've seen far more cars harmed than helped by Nova/Mustang II front clips and R&P conversion attempts.

    Packard sold lots of cars with the slogan, "Ask the man who owns one." Most of us will always defend our decisions and our investments as good ones. Never believe everything told you by someone who has just sunk huge money into modifying his Stude suspension. He's going to want to believe it vastly improved the car and he's going to want to convince you also. Do your own research. Spend the time and money to go and drive a couple of cars with the completely rebuilt and upgraded stock system, then go drive the best conversions you can find. Promise you, it will be a revelation.

    And did metion that he had a couple of C/K cars in his day, and that they had terrible steering. But some of the purists on the forum have made it sound like there is nothing wrong with Studebaker system?
    Take any 50-60 year old car, for 150k miles run the six tie rod ends, a bell crank with bushings and a cheap marginal steering box where the oil seal failed years before, kingpins with bushings, have it go through who knows how many owners who didn't even know or care there were grease fittings on all those parts. Then, you'll have terrible steering, no matter what the make.

    Drive a C/K with ALL new suspension parts, rebuilt steering box, gas shocks, radial tires on 6" rims, stiffer front and rear sway bar and a professional alignment. The steering and front and rear suspension will be better than OK for today's street driving.

    jack vines
    Last edited by PackardV8; 08-29-2010 at 12:31 PM.
    PackardV8

  17. #17
    President Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    calgary, alberta, Canada.
    Posts
    2,008
    Quote Originally Posted by woodysrods View Post
    I want to put an 86 Corvette (C4) in my Hawk and leave Sandi's stock?? But never having driven a C/K car or even ridden in one I am in the dark here.
    Brian
    Hey Brian, I would have to say that if you want your car to handle and feel like it's 50 years old then stick with the Stude system as there is really nothing wrong with it and it is factory engineered, basic and strong... however in your case, you seem to have the equipment, space and ability to install the C4 system so go for it. It will bring the car up to a modern standard of steering feel, braking ability, and comfort, let alone the 'wow' factor of how it will look. In my case I stuck with stock because I don't have the equipment and ability to swap in a more modern system, and my car steers and feels exactly how old it really is. If I had my choice I would go modern. If I was in Westbank with my car I'd let you take it for a spin so you would have an easier time deciding what to do...is there anybody's c/k you can 'test drive'. ps, didn't make it to BC this summer as I was sentenced to a 7 week vacation in Meleka Malaysia (poor me) regards, Junior


    54 Champ C5 Hamilton car.

  18. #18
    President Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    calgary, alberta, Canada.
    Posts
    2,008
    Quote Originally Posted by PackardV8 View Post
    We've beaten this poor R&P dead horse far too many times. For whatever reason, few want to rebuild the original suspension. It takes great skill and lots of money to improve on the Stude suspension. I've seen far more cars harmed than helped by Nova/Mustang II front clips and R&P conversion attempts.



    Drive a C/K with ALL new suspension parts, rebuilt steering box, gas shocks, radial tires on 6" rims, stiffer front and rear sway bar and a professional alignment. The steering and front and rear suspension will be better than OK for today's street driving.

    jack vines
    Jack, you bring up some good and important points. I have done the research and read all previous posts on c/k r&p steering for the last 2 years and would have to agree that the subject has been beat to death, but c/k owners continue to ask the question because they are convinced that there is a better alternative to the Stude steering. I have to agree with you that there is nothing wrong with stock steering on a completely rebuilt system for a street driven car, however I venture to say that a properly installed C4 suspension would still be a better choice, the key words here being 'properly installed' meaning keeping the same track, alignment specs, relative spring rate etc. as the Chevy engineers designed for the Vette, would be better than the stock Stude system. Such a conversion would not be cheap, and is not within ability of the typical Stude owner. In Brian's case, I believe he already has the Vette suspension and he has the equipment and know how to install it, plus his car is being built as a modified with ZZ4 SBC, 6 speed, Ford 9" etc, so the C4 front end would complement the build, but as stated it is not a conversion for most folks
    As much as I would love to have a r&p system in my 54 coupe, I have decided to stay with a completely rebuilt stock system with Turner Brakes. I would advoacate as others have for the Saginaw box (which my car has). This decision was based on information afforded to me by this forum with insightful input from others such as yourself.... Slick Street Conversion looks easy but the jury is out on the bumpsteer issue, nova clip has no real advantage in the steering dept., mustang II is over-rated and was never designed as a performance suspension and reported to be too light in the duty dept, and the center steer GM racks seems reasonable at first but still does not maintain stock Stude geometry, plus once again takes more skill to install than I beleive I have given the fact I'm not willing to take the safety risk involved of me fabbing my own mounts. Thanks for your input, your thoughts are well grounded and very realistic. Regards, Junior.


    54 Champ C5 Hamilton car.

  19. #19
    President Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    St. Louis, MO, .
    Posts
    1,312
    IMHO, The best reasonably priced improvment for a correctly rebuilt C/K front suspension, is to replace the original Ross steering box, with a Saginaw unit from a late Lark type. Bolt up the Saginaw using the 2 bolt holes in the frame that match, and then use the nonmatching hole in the Saginaw as the template to drill a new 3rd hole thru the frame.

    If you leave the Lark steering shaft as is you get that straight armed, European, driving experience. Or you can do some welding to achieve the correct length.

  20. #20
    Silver Hawk Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Spokane, WA, USA.
    Posts
    5,393
    Glad you concur:

    I have to agree with you that there is nothing wrong with stock steering on a completely rebuilt system for a street driven car,
    Hard to disagree with this:
    I venture to say that a properly installed C4 suspension would still be a better choice, the key words here being 'properly installed' meaning keeping the same track, alignment specs, relative spring rate etc. as the Chevy engineers designed for the Vette, would be better than the stock Stude system. Such a conversion would not be cheap, and is not within ability of the typical Stude owner.
    Yes, taking the Stude C/K sheetmetal and installing it on a lengthened Corvette C4 chassis would result in a better handling car. As you said, how many CASOs have the talent or the wallet to do that?

    IMHO, The best reasonably priced improvment for a correctly rebuilt C/K front suspension, is to replace the original Ross steering box, with a Saginaw unit from a late Lark type.
    Yes, agree, the Ross steering gear is crap and the one Stude piece which should definitely be replaced. Your description is clear and concise.

    jack vines
    PackardV8

  21. #21
    President Member woodysrods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westbank, B.C., Canada.
    Posts
    2,689
    Hi Jack & Junior
    Thanks for your thoughts. I am trying to get as much imput as I possibly can before I start cutting. I do have two Hawk projects on the go at once, and I plan for them both to be at opposite ends of the spectrum. But, I want both of them to be as driveable as possible. Junior Thank You for the vote of confidence! Yes I have installed a number of Corvette front ends in various vehicles in the past including a 50 Studebaker Bullet Nose. And had always planned to use one in My Hawk project. My front end of choice is the 86 C4 front end of which I have one I purchase back in 1995. They were going for $1500.00 each back then, I was buying the 2 at a time for $2500.00/pr. I saved this one all these years because it was the best one I ever saw. Now in the Bullet nose I did I used air bags for front and rear suspension. But I am not a fan of air ride myself. I prefer coils or coil overs.(stock corvette transverse spring is too soft) Although on the first test drive of the 50, I drove it downhill on a narrow winedy road, and I remember yelling WOW out load as we negotiated the corners. Handled like a new BMW! I will fabricate a new front x meber to mount the corvette parts on, as the stock corvette x member is real ugly. Now Jack on the 61 I am building for my wife Sandi. I hope to keep this car stock...but restarted this thread, not to beat a dead horse, but to get everyones thoughts and experience with a rear mounted, centre steer rack on a C/K. Still waiting to hear from Jerry! Please chime in Jerry, as I like what I see when looking at your stuff. And I am going to reverse open the hoods on both our Hawks. Don't need that permanent scar on my forehead.
    And Jack, am I to assume all C/K's 56 to61 used the Ross box rather than the Saginaw box??
    Brian
    Brian Woods
    woodysrods@shaw.ca
    1946 M Series (Shop Truck)

  22. #22
    President Member woodysrods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westbank, B.C., Canada.
    Posts
    2,689
    Already have the Turner brake conversion brakes and Dual master mount for Sandi's 61. Did't get a lot of feedback on my transmission question. She definitely wants to keep hers an Automatic and I believe ours works fine, but where do you stop. Is the GM 200R conversion something I should be considering? I have a 700R 4 in my 46 M.
    Brian
    Brian Woods
    woodysrods@shaw.ca
    1946 M Series (Shop Truck)

  23. #23
    Silver Hawk Member Bob Andrews's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Parish, central NY
    Posts
    6,764
    Brian, re: Jerry's, I know he hasn't driven it yet. The car is not finished or running yet, and is on hold while he works on another, the 'Rustobaker'.

    Jack- as always you make a solid case based on experience. My reason for wanting to go R&P on my r2 Lark clone is more reliability. I could live with the stock steering, but really want power steering. If I go with factory I have that crappy valve with all the vulnerable lines going to it; with which I have had more than a few frustrating experiences in Fords over the years My thinking is, with R&P I do away with the reach rod, bell crank, convoluted antique assist valve design, and a few tie rod ends. A R&P is smaller, lighter, more efficient, and affords the opportunity to go with a smaller, modern, more efficient pump that would be easier to mount on an R2 engine. As a bonus, I get fresh parts that in my experience are mostly bulletproof. Is my thinking flawed?

    My project is a clean sheet of paper, frame-up, so it will never be easier to do it. I'm going for a mostly stock-appearing Lark with R2/TREMEC 5-speed, P/S. The interior will be stock Daytona, including stock shifter handle. I've got a pretty good handle of what I want to have, but am still going back and forth on the power steering. I looked at the new electric P/S, but ruled them out since talking to the Flaming River rep at Carlisle who told me their long-term reliability has not been proven in street use. For $2500 I'm not willing to be the guinea pig So my options seem to be stock or R&P... or refresh the stock setup and go with no P/S. But since I want to do a car exactly as I want (which definitely includes P/S!), I too am still wrestling with this decision...
    Proud NON-CASO

    I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. ~ William McKinley

    If it is decreed that I should go down, then let me go down linked with the truth—let me die in the advocacy of what is just and right.- Lincoln

    GOD BLESS AMERICA

    Ephesians 6:10-17
    Romans 15:13
    Deuteronomy 31:6
    Proverbs 28:1

    Illegitimi non carborundum

  24. #24
    President Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Bay City, Mi., USA.
    Posts
    4,980
    Quote Originally Posted by woodysrods View Post
    Is the GM 200R conversion something I should be considering? I have a 700R 4 in my 46 M.
    Brian
    Brian

    If the tranny in the car works well and it performs in a fashion that your wife would enjoy driving, then the conversion is a bit over the top.

    For me, I converted my 83 Avanti to a 200R4 to take advantage of a 4:10 rear gearing to improve performance and still enjoy Freeway driving. I does that and more. The evenly spaced shifts seem to come at just the right spot in my car and with the 2000 RPM lockup converter it really comes off the line well.

    The expense with a SBC is not bad in an Avanti because it,s basically buy the tranny and shorten the drive shaft. A lot more effort is required with a Stude engine.

    Unless you need the upgrade, I spend the money elsewhere. In your truck, the 700R4 is probably great because it came with a rather low geared rear end.

    Bob
    , ,

  25. #25
    Silver Hawk Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Spokane, WA, USA.
    Posts
    5,393
    Hi, Bob

    The reasons everyone wants to change are as you describe
    If I go with factory I have that crappy valve with all the vulnerable lines going to it; with which I have had more than a few frustrating experiences in Fords over the years My thinking is, with R&P I do away with the reach rod, bell crank, convoluted antique assist valve design, and a few tie rod ends. A R&P is smaller, lighter, more efficient, and affords the opportunity to go with a smaller, modern, more efficient pump that would be easier to mount on an R2 engine. As a bonus, I get fresh parts that in my experience are mostly bulletproof.
    Is my thinking flawed?
    No, you are right on. On a clean sheet build, new R&P steering is the way to go. However, as mentioned before, figuring how to do it right has been the challenge. Go and look under the cars with R&P, then drive them. I've not yet found a R&P conversion which is readily available, inexpensive to buy, easy to install, doesn't increase the turning circle, doesn't produce significant bump steer. Think about it - we've been hashing this for years now. If it were quick, easy, cheap and mechanically sound, they'd be in every Stude by now.

    I've not found any R&P which works perfectly with the OEM suspension and linkage. If I were doing a clean sheet build, I'd seriously look at a complete C4 front subframe as Brian/woody's rods is doing.

    The one thing CASOs with less money and talent than you and Brian should remember,
    I get fresh parts that in my experience are mostly bulletproof.
    A completely rebuilt Stude Saginaw steering and OEM suspension will have all fresh parts, will be bullet-proof and will work correctly. Too many shadetree R&P conversions or aftermarket clips don't.

    jack vines
    PackardV8

  26. #26
    President Member woodysrods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westbank, B.C., Canada.
    Posts
    2,689
    [QUOTE=sweetolbob;484648]
    Hi Bob Yes I a have an 8" Ford in my M series with 3.80 gears. the 700R4 is behind a 305 SBC. Works great!
    Brian
    Brian Woods
    woodysrods@shaw.ca
    1946 M Series (Shop Truck)

  27. #27
    President Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Bay City, Mi., USA.
    Posts
    4,980
    Brian

    At 70 MPH assuming 28" rear tires, you should be about 1800 RPM using the on-line calculator. Should be a great cruiser on the freeway and a good RPM to run a 305.

    My 83 runs about 2350 at the same speed with the 355 SBC.

    Again, remember the main difference between the 200R4 and the 700R4 are the 700 is a bigger/longer case and a lower first gear 3.08 vs 2.74. The 700R4 was probably a great choice for the truck as the 3.08 seems to be considered the area where below (less than numerically) the 700 is recommended, above it the 200r4.

    Also remember the 700R4 is a lot easier to locate than it's cousin. Rebuild costs are about the same according to my guy that built the 200R4 for my Avanti.

    Good Luck

    Bob
    , ,

  28. #28
    President Member woodysrods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westbank, B.C., Canada.
    Posts
    2,689
    Bob I don't have 3.08 gears. I have 3.80 gears and I don't have a speedo, but I do like too travel at 3000 RPM without the converter locked in.
    Gas milage sucks!
    Brian
    Brian Woods
    woodysrods@shaw.ca
    1946 M Series (Shop Truck)

  29. #29
    Speedster Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Oceano, Calif, , .
    Posts
    369
    Jerry,
    The Steeroids unit is shown in their kit for retro into a Mustang. Also, Total Control Products has a similar set-up for their multiple Ford products applications. The unit must be avail seperately from someone - It probably would not be produced only for the two above companies (Europe? Australia?). I have an inquiry in for pricing of the R&P unit only. Will update when some info is rec'd.
    Also, thanks for all your help and guidance w/ this and silmilar projects. I never would have attempted the conversion if not for the likes of you, Bob johnston an all the others.

    Best regards, Paul Keller

  30. #30
    Speedster Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Oceano, Calif, , .
    Posts
    369

    R&P Cost

    Total Contrl Products R&P (CTO, rear attachment) is quoted @ $2095.00 (!!!). The manual unit is a couple hundred less. It is worth taking a look at what they have; it would be the "right" way to go:

    www.totalcontrolproducts.com

    Paul Keller

  31. #31
    Commander Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    36
    what is bump steer?

  32. #32
    Golden Hawk Member DEEPNHOCK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Brooklet, GA, USA. Planet Earth
    Posts
    15,136
    Quote Originally Posted by christineman View Post
    what is bump steer?



    Definitions of Bump steer on the Web:
    • Bump steer is the term for the tendency of a wheel to steer as it moves upwards into jounce. It is typically measured in degrees per metre or degrees per foot.
      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_steer
    • The tendency of a vehicle to suddenly veer or swerve to one side when hitting a bump or dip in the road. The condition is caused by uneven toe changes that occur as a result of the steering linkage or rack not being parallel with the road surface. ...
      www.worksperformance.com/html/glossary_2.html
    • Refers to changes in wheel alignment (toe, camber and caster) as the wheel moves through the suspension range. Wheel alignment is set with the car stationary, so bump steer affects must be properly considered to ensure that suspension movement does not cause adverse changes in handling or grip.
      fmgracing.com/racing101.php
    • The tendency of the steering to veer suddenly in one direction when one or both of the front wheels strikes a bump.
      www.autozone.com/autozone/repairinfo/common/repairInfoMain.jsp
    • A change in toe caused by the suspension moving up or down. Bump-steer is built into the geometry of the suspension and steering system, and occurs independently of inputs from the steering wheel. ...
      www.steeda.com/news/tech_articles/suspension_definitions.php
    Jeff



    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

  33. #33
    Silver Hawk Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Spokane, WA, USA.
    Posts
    5,393
    Thanks, Jeff, for the clear and concise search and summary.

    Each of these definitions should begin with: "Bump steer is a very scary, often dangerous result of ill-considered steering system modifications."

    jack vines
    PackardV8

  34. #34
    President Member PlainBrownR2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Aurora, Illinois, USA.
    Posts
    3,975
    I've had a couple of experiences on the Lark with bump steer, and this is an all stock suspension too. A few years ago we had part of our road all tore, so in a couple of spots we had transitions from all gravel to asphalt. The sections were left unattended long enough for the passing cars to where a couple of nice potholes in the gravel when it went to asphalt, and to add to the fun, they were on a gently banked curve, so it required a little turning of the steering wheel. Anyway, if I wasn't mindful of that spot, and I bounced through the potholes at road speed just right, the potholes would violently pitch the wheels and send the car all over lane. This was on a stock vehicle with stock suspension, if an individual isn't careful on the install, like it was mentioned, this situation could get amplified on a vehicle with a modified suspension.
    1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
    1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
    1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
    1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

  35. #35
    President Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Santa Barbara, California, USA.
    Posts
    3,774
    I could swear that I posted on this thread, but now I dont see it. At any rate
    what would be VERY interesting to arrange (somehow) is a comparison test
    between the "modernized" Studebaker front suspension head to head against
    a rebuilt/upgraded (like Packard mentioned) stock setup. Basically putting
    the debate to end by seeing just how much better the chop-n-weld modern
    setup does when run through a Motor Trend/Car & Driver style road test. It
    would be an educational experience for all. One would expect improvement
    after dumping all that coin, but how much of it is only by comparison to being
    totally clapped out from years of neglect and abuse? Will we see slalom
    numbers that blow your mind with C4 bliss, or marginally better, or worse?

    So .. lets find out? Who has a nicely done C4 or other type Studebaker that
    they will put-up-or-shut-up against a nicely done "Packard-style" stocker? We
    need comparable tire/rim packages and etc. Lets do it people ... its time for
    the talkers to walk the walk.

    Tom
    '63 Avanti R1, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
    Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...kets-available
    I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

  36. #36
    President Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    calgary, alberta, Canada.
    Posts
    2,008
    Quote Originally Posted by sbca96 View Post

    So .. lets find out? Who has a nicely done C4 or other type Studebaker that
    they will put-up-or-shut-up against a nicely done "Packard-style" stocker? We
    need comparable tire/rim packages and etc. Lets do it people ... its time for
    the talkers to walk the walk.

    Tom
    Although this sounds like fun, how feasable is it...there are just too many variables to control, unless someone is willing to take their Stude with a perfect front suspension and steering system and cut it up to install a more up-to-date system. Even is someone was willing to do this, raw numbers and data do not tell the whole story...what about subjectivity issues such as ride harshness, tracking ability, steering feel etc, etc, etc. Add to this the problem of running in a controlled environment where the test was done at the same place, same weather conditions, humidity, road surface temp etc, etc, etc. Without addressing these issues, any 'winner' of this contest would always be challenged by the 'loser' based on the unfairness of too many variables not being controlled. Junior


    54 Champ C5 Hamilton car.

  37. #37
    President Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Santa Barbara, California, USA.
    Posts
    3,774
    Obviously the two cars would have to meet up at the same location. If I'm not
    mistaken, there are a few cars on this thread that have a modern suspension
    grafted on. RoadRaceLark actually competes and has a stock configuration. I'd
    put up my Avanti once I get it where I want it, but it goes back burner often. It
    also stands to reason the two cars need to be simular models.

    Tom

  38. #38
    President Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    , , .
    Posts
    866
    Steering Rack travel - I just measured a Volvo 940 at ~ 7 inches at the steering arm tie rod end, full left to full right. Like most RWD Volvos they turn pretty sharp ( ~ 32 feet between curbs, 109 inch wheel base

    Dan T

  39. #39
    Speedster Member ralt12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    426
    You won't find any of the "modernized" cars with a comparable wheel/tire package.
    '53 Commander
    Art Morrison chassis
    LS6 ASA/4L60E

    http://www.nelsonmotorsports.com/Nel...tudebaker.html

  40. #40
    President Member Jerry Forrester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Douglasville, Georgia, USA.
    Posts
    2,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Timberlake View Post
    Steering Rack travel - I just measured a Volvo 940 at ~ 7 inches at the steering arm tie rod end, full left to full right. Like most RWD Volvos they turn pretty sharp ( ~ 32 feet between curbs, 109 inch wheel base

    Dan T
    That might work with 'Quick Arms' but if I remember correctly the original Studebaker tierods travel 8 inches.
    I'll have to look for a deal on the Volvo rack. I wonder what kind of pressure they use, will they accept a GM pump?
    Jerry Forrester
    Forrester's Chrome
    Douglasville, Georgia


Similar Threads

  1. rack and pinion steering 53 c coupe modified
    By 53 stude mod in forum Tech Talk
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-14-2010, 11:00 AM
  2. Rack and pinion steering
    By Jimmie in forum "Stove Huggers" the non-Studebaker Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-16-2008, 08:27 PM
  3. Rack and Pinion
    By mtdoraford in forum Tech Talk
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-25-2008, 09:51 AM
  4. Rack & Pinion Conversions
    By jacsprat in forum Tech Talk
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-01-2007, 12:44 PM
  5. lark rack and pinion steering
    By prager in forum Tech Talk
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 12-05-2006, 11:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •