Results 1 to 26 of 26

Thread: Philco S4627

  1. #1
    Champion Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    10

    Philco S4627

    I have bought a Philco S4627 for my studebaker champion 1948. When I removed the back coffer I noticed there was one item missing. I think its the vibrator. This is the items that will break down often I think. Where can I find a replacement and are there electronic types to replace ?
    There are also three wires that are not connected. A green one, a black one and a yellow one. Are these for the loudspeaker ?

    Regards

    Jos De Proost
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    President Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    1,714
    OK where's RadioRoy?

  3. #3
    President Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hawthorne, California, USA.
    Posts
    1,960
    Replacement vibrators are available from Antique Electronic Supply at tubesandmore.com. If the radio hasn't had its capacitors replaced, then more likely than not, the radio isn't going to work even with a new vibrator. Without doing a major service on the radio, you risk the chance of destroying the new vibrator along with the power transformer. The green, black and brown wires connect to the speaker which originally used an electro magnet . The black is ground, green connects to the speaker voice coil and the brown wire supplies 6 volts to the speaker field coil. Bud

  4. #4
    Commander Member JimKB1MCV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    48
    +1 on Bud's comments. Also you should be aware the solid state vibrators on the market are polarity sensitive and not cheap to replace.

    The capacitors (or condensers) of the era were short-lived at the time and its now a lot of years later.

    A previous owner probably pulled the vibrator to stop blowing fuses, depending what else is in circuit.

    Have fun.

  5. #5
    Silver Hawk Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Trochu, Alberta , Canada.
    Posts
    5,532
    I would strongly recommend that you have the radio serviced by a technician, like Radio Roy here on this forum, who understands vacuum tube circuits and how to service them. Bud mentioned capacitors, and yes, the paper capacitors in the set should all be replaced, even if they test good, because if they short, they can then burn out expensive parts. Capacitors are cheap, mostly under a dollar each, and there are likely no more than 20 in the set.

    The empty socket in the picture is indeed the one for the vibrator. And the one capacitor you absolutely must replace is the vibrator buffer capacitor, rated at 1600 volts, and connected across the secondary of the vibrator transformer. If that one shorts, it will kill the vibrator, or worse, the vibrator transformer, which cannot be bought new at all.
    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

  6. #6
    Silver Hawk Member RadioRoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    5,012
    Guys, this member is in Belgium. Hopefully there will be a radio repair person closer to home for him.

    All the other advice given so far is spot on.

    The vibrators available from Antique Electronic Supply are very fragile electrically and will pop at the drop of a hat, but they are a plug in replacement. The vibrators available from Aurora Designs need to be hard wired, but they are bullet proof. I highly recommend Aurora Design vibrators.

    http://www.tech-retro.com/Aurora_Des...cessories.html

    Does the radio have all its knobs? How about a picture of the front of the entire radio?
    Last edited by RadioRoy; 04-12-2019 at 01:43 PM.
    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
    10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
    56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
    60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

  7. #7
    President Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hawthorne, California, USA.
    Posts
    1,960
    Maybe I'm lucky, but after all of the vibrator equipped radios I've rebuilt in the past using the replacement solid state vibrators from Antique Electronic Supply, the only ones that have failed, failed because the polarity to the radio was reversed and then the failure is almost immediate. The old reed type vibrators with points in them didn't care about polarity, but were relatively short lived, though I have seen used vibrators that have tested good and NOS vibrators because of poor storage conditions be unuseable. I've tried cleaning the contacts in point type vibrators by opening up the can and using a burnishing tool to clean the contacts, but for the most part it's a waste of time. Bud

  8. #8
    Silver Hawk Member RadioRoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    5,012
    Good point, Bud. The AAR vibrators that have gone bad on me have been the ones where the customers hooked up the battery backwards or where someone did not replace the buffer capacitor or the filter capacitors. That's why I no longer sell individual vibrators.

    The vibrators made by Aurora Designs protect themselves and are unaffected by this type of mistreatment.

    I have rejuvenated old mechanical vibrators, but it is uncertain how long they will last after that. Mostly I just use them for testing purposes.
    Last edited by RadioRoy; 04-13-2019 at 04:18 PM.
    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
    10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
    56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
    60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

  9. #9
    Commander Member leaurent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    FRANCE
    Posts
    38
    You can phone to Radio Retro Sensation in France +33 686 058 946
    GT Hawk 62 V8
    Lark 62 hardtop skytop 6 cyl
    Silver Hawk 57 Hardtop 6 cyl
    Transtar 57 V8
    Starliner 54 V8

  10. #10
    President Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hawthorne, California, USA.
    Posts
    1,960
    Roy, I keep a few good point type vibrators on the bench for testing purposes and when I'm sure that the radio is performing like it should, then it gets a replacement solid state vibrator. I now mark the radios that have a solid state vibrator with the correct voltage and polarity on the back of the case in big red letters. I've had a couple of radios come back with destroyed solid state vibrators in Studebaker 6 volt systems where the car owner did not know that 6 volt Studebakers all use a positive ground and installed the battery using a negative ground which causes all sorts of electrical problems. Bud

  11. #11
    Champion Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    10
    Thank you for the answers. I think I will overhaul the radio before placing a new vibrator. Where have I to connect the green brown and black wire that comes out of the radio ? There are only two connections on the speaker.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #12
    President Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hawthorne, California, USA.
    Posts
    1,960
    The speaker in your radio has been replaced and now has a permanent magnet so the brown wire is not needed. Connect the green and black wires to the two terminals on the speaker. Bud

  13. #13
    Speedster Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Alexandria, Louisiana, USA.
    Posts
    488
    Look on www.antiqueradioforum.com There is a specific sub forum for car radios and LOTS of links to parts for antique radios.
    Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker

  14. #14
    Silver Hawk Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Trochu, Alberta , Canada.
    Posts
    5,532
    Quote Originally Posted by Bud View Post
    The speaker in your radio has been replaced and now has a permanent magnet so the brown wire is not needed. Connect the green and black wires to the two terminals on the speaker. Bud
    Yes, and it's an old speaker, robbed from some other unit, and the terminals are very crusty. The first picture shows four brown components. The top two are paper capacitors, and can safely be regarded as bad, and should be replaced. The next one down appears to be a choke coil with a paper sleeve, and should be left alone, if indeed it is that. The fourth flat one, with spots like a domino piece, is a mica capacitor, and can safely be retained.

    My impression is that this is a "parts radio" in its current condition. Maybe somebody attempted a repair, and it failed, and the radio got sold. I would strongly recommend that it be sent to a qualified radio restorer to be serviced properly. One other thought: I don't know whether the field coil for the old dynamic speaker ran on six volts from the power switch, or whether it ran on B-circuit voltage. In a lot of old AC radios of the era. the speaker field acted as the filter choke for the B-circuit power supply. Vibrator-powered radios need filtering in their B-circuit, too, so Philco may have done the same. In which case a suitable filter choke would need to be added. I am sure Roy knows what the case is for that radio.
    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

  15. #15
    Silver Hawk Member RadioRoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    5,012
    Car radio speaker fields run on battery voltage. But that's a moot point as replacement speakers have permanent magnets rather than electromagnets..
    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
    10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
    56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
    60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

  16. #16
    Silver Hawk Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Trochu, Alberta , Canada.
    Posts
    5,532
    Quote Originally Posted by RadioRoy View Post
    Car radio speaker fields run on battery voltage. But that's a moot point as replacement speakers have permanent magnets rather than electromagnets..
    Thanks, Roy. Wasn't sure there. That speaker pictured is very old, with a huge Alnico magnet on it, and obviously was used. I would suggest a modern speaker would sound better, but that's not his immediate problem.
    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

  17. #17
    Silver Hawk Member RadioRoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    5,012
    It's possible that a modern speaker will not fit. The aspect ratio of the modern magnets is completely different than the old speakers and often the magnet will not fit into the hole in the electronics chassis. In addition to that, the 7" speaker in the 47-49 radio is very difficult to find. If the OP's radio is a six tube, it should have a smaller 5 or 6 inch speaker and those are more easily found. That's why I asked for some better pictures of the whole radio, particularly the front.

    I get my old style speakers from SM electrotech in Minnesota. http://www.turnswitch.com/ They commissioned MISCO, Minneapolis speaker company, to reproduce their old style speakers.

    I used to have the original speakers re-coned, but the quality of the paper cone material got so bad that the speakers were going bad, getting warped, while still in the box, in the attic of my shop. Yikes!
    Last edited by RadioRoy; 04-14-2019 at 03:06 PM.
    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
    10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
    56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
    60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

  18. #18
    Silver Hawk Member RadioRoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    5,012
    Quote Originally Posted by mjeansonne View Post
    Look on www.antiqueradioforum.com There is a specific sub forum for car radios and LOTS of links to parts for antique radios.
    Is that a good link? It just says coming soon.
    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
    10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
    56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
    60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

  19. #19
    President Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hawthorne, California, USA.
    Posts
    1,960
    The bottom line on this radio is that it will need complete overhaul including a new speaker. I've rebuilt a bunch of the S4627 radios over the years and doing a complete restoration on one of those radios should not be attempted by someone that doesn't have the experience to to the job correctly. They are not easy radios to work on and someone with little or no experience should practice their skills on something easier to service. Bud

  20. #20
    Silver Hawk Member RadioRoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    5,012
    Quote Originally Posted by Bud View Post
    The bottom line on this radio is that it will need complete overhaul including a new speaker. I've rebuilt a bunch of the S4627 radios over the years and doing a complete restoration on one of those radios should not be attempted by someone that doesn't have the experience to to the job correctly. They are not easy radios to work on and someone with little or no experience should practice their skills on something easier to service. Bud
    I agree 100% with that.

    I would also like to add that, if someone starts a job like this and then finds they are out of their league, it makes it even harder to find someone experienced to take it on.
    Last edited by RadioRoy; 04-14-2019 at 07:59 PM.
    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
    10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
    56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
    60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

  21. #21
    Speedster Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fredericksburg, VA, USA.
    Posts
    134
    There is antiqueradio.com, which is Antique Radio Classified, and does not seem to have publlished an issue in 2018.

    And there is antiqueradios.com, which has a forum, but I have not see a specific auto radio section. There is plenty of good advice there, just in other categories, like Electrical/Mechanical Repair and restoration. Here is a sample dealing with Packard:

    https://www.antiqueradios.com/forums...p?f=6&t=207305
    Frank DuVal

    50 Commander 4 door

  22. #22
    Champion Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    10
    The speaker goes in the radio. Here some pictures of the front. The problem is to find a shop to repair the radio in Belgium.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  23. #23
    Silver Hawk Member RadioRoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    5,012
    Belgium: Belgische Radio Club. Francois Marschang, Kromvendreef 53, B-2900, Schoten, Belgium.

    Belgium: Vlaamse Liefhebbers Van Der Historiche Radiotechniek (VLHR). Rudi Sillen, Limberg 31, B-2230, Herselt, Belgium. Pub: Retro-Radio, quarterly. Dues: $20.


    From this website http://www.antiqueradio.com/clublist.html
    Last edited by RadioRoy; 04-15-2019 at 01:36 PM.
    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
    10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
    56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
    60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

  24. #24
    President Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hawthorne, California, USA.
    Posts
    1,960
    Roy and I have been in the old radio business for more years than I care to remember and he and I are in total agreement about attempting to service old auto radios. It's far better to send the radio to someone that can do the job correctly than to start on the project, dismantle everything and then find out you can't finish the job which ends up costing far more than if the radio was left alone to begin with. I have an S4924 radio sitting on the bench that someone tried to repair and ripped the tuning knob out breaking both the knob and its retaining clip and as a result I now have to repair the knob and restring the dial mechanism which isn't fun. Bud

  25. #25
    President Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hawthorne, California, USA.
    Posts
    1,960
    As an added note to this thread, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from learning how to do competent repairs to old radios, but auto radios are not the best units to learn on. Start learning on radios known as the All American Five which are smaller house radios which are relatively easy to repair, aren't expensive or rare and can be found at garage sales and swap meets for a few bucks. If the repairs aren't successful, you aren't out hundreds of dollars and you can certainly try again on another radio. That is how most of us that have been restoring radios started out. There are books and websites such as the Antique Radio Forum that have information and in the case of the ARF, there are people that are more than willing to help you with your project. Bud

  26. #26
    Champion Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    10
    Thanks Bud. I think I wil follow your advice and will take it to a repair shop.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •